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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: September 18 2009 at 05:55 |
It's a mess, and it's beyond repair ... not much else to say about it. A good solution would be to allow reviews without ratings ... that way the reviewer would not be forced to submit an inconsistent/illogical rating.
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Marty McFly
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2009
Location: Czech Republic
Status: Offline
Points: 3968
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Posted: September 18 2009 at 06:33 |
Thank you for your opinions. I felt that giving Abbey Road 5 stars is needed, but backed by these arguments, I feel more confident. Yes, it's easier to be confident with more skilled people saying similar things, than have pedantic opinion "this is prog site and non-prog should be rated lover".
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There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu Even my
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: September 18 2009 at 06:45 |
MartyMcFly89 wrote:
Thank you for your opinions. I felt that giving Abbey Road 5 stars is needed, but backed by these arguments, I feel more confident. Yes, it's easier to be confident with more skilled people saying similar things, than have pedantic opinion "this is prog site and non-prog should be rated lover".
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People who have that opinion are fanatics, nothing more. I review for another prog site (Progressor), and often visits other prog sites, which are ALL more inclusive and open than this one. Many of the albums I have reviewed (and sometimes rated quite highly) would not be able to set foot here, or would be confined to Prog-Related. Obviously, the Talebans among us have always ignored me every time I have stated this simple fact. but this does not change things. No other prog site practices anything close to a policy of rating anything 'non-prog' lower than the 'real' prog stuff. Something of the sort would be slightly deranged, not to mention ridiculous.
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Marty McFly
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2009
Location: Czech Republic
Status: Offline
Points: 3968
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Posted: September 18 2009 at 07:43 |
Raff wrote:
MartyMcFly89 wrote:
Thank you for your opinions. I felt that giving Abbey Road 5 stars is needed, but backed by these arguments, I feel more confident. Yes, it's easier to be confident with more skilled people saying similar things, than have pedantic opinion "this is prog site and non-prog should be rated lover".
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People who have that opinion are fanatics, nothing more. I review for another prog site (Progressor), and often visits other prog sites, which are ALL more inclusive and open than this one. Many of the albums I have reviewed (and sometimes rated quite highly) would not be able to set foot here, or would be confined to Prog-Related. Obviously, the Talebans among us have always ignored me every time I have stated this simple fact. but this does not change things. No other prog site practices anything close to a policy of rating anything 'non-prog' lower than the 'real' prog stuff. Something of the sort would be slightly deranged, not to mention ridiculous.
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When I started reviewing, I had in my mind one single thing, to which I focused and which helped me to register and wrote these hundred of words on my 1st one. I knew that Dark Side of the Moon is five star album. But soon I realized that things are not so easy. First I started to lower my enthusiasm and edit previous ratings. Degrade them if I felt it that way, after ecstasy fell down. And I have to say that DSotM was my oldest album. Then I learned to appreciate every single genre. Yes, this took a while, some I already knew and welcomed, with some I had few struggles, but now I can say that I'm more or less fair with them. My biggest failure is still probably death metal, but things are getting better. But proto-prog, that's easy, they're mostly Deep Purple, The Beatles and The Who. But Prog-related is far bigger group. Metallica, Iron Maiden and Asia, these appears in my mind. I don't know Iron Maiden much, but know that they're amongst better metal of these times. Same as with early Metallica. Yes, both aren't prog, but they're not trying to be. Not in normal, conventional way of this world, as we understand normal jazz/symphonic prog. But way how they do it is a good one. And it would be unfair to rate them as prog. Thanks that I'm not doing this. Mostly. Everyone does mistakes and I'm trying to avoid them. It's hard to be fair and I know that I have to rate fairly, not rate by "prog" pattern every time.
EDIT: And I'm aware and I admit that I rated few Asia albums lower, also because of reason that they're not prog. But one of the reasons was fact that they're boring, playing same music all over. With same pattern, same style, no innovations, no variations. Almost no. And of course, prog related is also Queen & Led Zeppelin.
Edited by MartyMcFly89 - September 18 2009 at 07:46
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There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu Even my
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Hawkwise
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 31 2008
Location: Ontairo
Status: Offline
Points: 4119
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Posted: September 18 2009 at 08:09 |
So Just because i have an opinion you don't like makes me a Troll ? So why Not drop the word Prog all together ? It has became so watered down it has became almost Meaningless, Why not just call this place the Rock Archives and be done with it.
Prog related ? what does this really mean? How much Farther is it going to be stretched ?
Hell why not throw in the Sex Pistols Or Public Image Ltd , Why not Madonna ? its all music, so it all could be related .
SO Prog has it became a Meaningless Word ?
Edited by Hawkwise - September 18 2009 at 08:09
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10671
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Posted: September 18 2009 at 08:17 |
Hawkwise wrote:
So Just because i have an opinion you don't like makes me a Troll ? So why Not drop the word Prog all together ? It has became so watered down it has became almost Meaningless, Why not just call this place the Rock Archives and be done with it.Prog related ? what does this really mean? How much Farther is it going to be stretched ?Hell why not throw in the Sex Pistols Or Public Image Ltd , Why not Madonna ? its all music, so it all could be related . SO Prog has it became a Meaningless Word ?
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This thread is not about whether Maiden or anyone else belongs here. This thread asked a very sincere question about rating prog related albums and everone but you has responded in a sincere helpful way.
I never voted for Maiden's inclusion and i have no idea how I would have voted because my knowledge of their music is limited, but they are here like it or not.
Please leave this thread alone, I will be discussing with the other admins possible action that might be taken if you continue to take this thread off topic.
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Abstrakt
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 18 2005
Location: Soundgarden
Status: Offline
Points: 18292
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Posted: September 18 2009 at 08:33 |
Raff wrote:
As I said on numerous occasions, I have never given a flying **** about the definitions accompanying the star ratings. If I felt that a PR or PP album was a masterpiece, I gave it five stars - as simple as that, and I would have probably gone ballistic if anyone had forced me to give it a lower rating because it was not prog. In my view of the world, such attitudes border on fanaticism, and are not to be encouraged. Thankfully, the change in the definition has made it much easier for people to rate PR and PP albums without feeling they were violating some holy tenet of progginess.
As regards those who bash albums because they're not prog, in my very humble opinion they should be kicked off the site, or stripped of their Collab or PR title. Stuff like that does not happen on any of the other prog sites I visit - albums are rated according to their musical worth, not on the basis of their 'prog quotient'. People who think like that are a detriment to the credibility of any serious site.
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Alberto Muņoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: September 18 2009 at 11:12 |
First thing that you have in mind to rate a IM album, is that IM have many musical rock facets, so it depends what might like you first.
If you are in the early years (prior to Number of the Beast) (like me), then you might like to use words defining the album and the songs an careful to avoid some cliches of reviewing albums.
Feel free to say what you think and feel about the music, that's the main reason about to write a review.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: September 18 2009 at 12:56 |
Easy Money wrote:
Hawkwise wrote:
So Just because i have an opinion you don't like makes me a Troll ? So why Not drop the word Prog all together ? It has became so watered down it has became almost Meaningless, Why not just call this place the Rock Archives and be done with it.Prog related ? what does this really mean? How much Farther is it going to be stretched ?Hell why not throw in the Sex Pistols Or Public Image Ltd , Why not Madonna ? its all music, so it all could be related . SO Prog has it became a Meaningless Word ?
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This thread is not about whether Maiden or anyone else belongs here. This thread asked a very sincere question about rating prog related albums and everone but you has responded in a sincere helpful way.
I never voted for Maiden's inclusion and i have no idea how I would have voted because my knowledge of their music is limited, but they are here like it or not.
Please leave this thread alone, I will be discussing with the other admins possible action that might be taken if you continue to take this thread off topic. |
Indeed. I'd also like to echo Raf's good advice. There's tons of other Prog sites so crying out for members they'd even take a mirthless troll like you. Final warning. Now back on topic.
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friso
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 24 2007
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 2506
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Posted: September 20 2009 at 16:40 |
I just had a simple question, but it turned out to be a big problem. I do feel supported with rating my Iron Maiden collection. I will rate them as heavy metal (and not prog) and tell about the progressive influences in my reviews.
If you don't think bands like Iron Maiden belong on this side, you might want to skip on the PROG RELATED pages. Problem solved!
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