How to rate an Iron Maiden album?
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Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=61338
Printed Date: January 10 2025 at 03:43
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Topic: How to rate an Iron Maiden album?
Posted By: friso
Subject: How to rate an Iron Maiden album?
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 17:42
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I've read a lot of Iron Maiden reviews this evening, mainly written for their first six albums. They are hailed as the perfect metal band and bashed for not being progressive. Some referred to their 4th as "piece of crap" and other great records were bashed in this odd way too.
Being a liftime fan of Iron Maiden this all sounds strange. How can one rate The Number of the Beast two stars? 'They weren't progressive enough' claim the reviewers. Now my question is: How do you rate an Iron Maiden album that does not have real progressive moments like Somewhere in Time and Seventh Son of a Seventh Son. How many stars does a perfect metal album deserve? |
Replies:
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 17:48
Just use the stars as they are defined, keeping in mind that a Prog Related album can never be an essential master piece of prog. Alle the others are valid options, and I reckon most will become 2 or 3 stars in the case of Maiden following that logic, with a few getting 4.
------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
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Essential: a masterpiece of progressive rock music
Excellent addition to any prog rock music collection
Good, but non-essential
Collectors/fans only
Poor. Only for completionistsPosted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 17:53
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Maiden are here as ProgRelated and the rating description for PR bands reflects that by not using the word 'progressive', so when a writer says a PR band is not progressive enough it's an unnecessary warning and their rating should account for that. On the other hand, I guess on a prog site that's their prerogative. The reviews you read may have been written before that change was made. And besides I happen agree with you that they are progressive anyway, so ... |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 17:54
I just want to note that it was changed for Prog Related and Proto Prog:
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 18:01
As I said on numerous occasions, I have never given a flying **** about the definitions accompanying the star ratings. If I felt that a PR or PP album was a masterpiece, I gave it five stars - as simple as that, and I would have probably gone ballistic if anyone had forced me to give it a lower rating because it was not prog. In my view of the world, such attitudes border on fanaticism, and are not to be encouraged. Thankfully, the change in the definition has made it much easier for people to rate PR and PP albums without feeling they were violating some holy tenet of progginess .As regards those who bash albums because they're not prog, in my very humble opinion they should be kicked off the site, or stripped of their Collab or PR title. Stuff like that does not happen on any of the other prog sites I visit - albums are rated according to their musical worth, not on the basis of their 'prog quotient'. People who think like that are a detriment to the credibility of any serious site. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 18:24
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Discussed this in another thread, but, if one takes the ratings descriptions seriously, I find some interesting points for discussion: a) Prog-Related has albums that are arguably just as Prog as anything else, and personally, since this is a Prog site, I would generally rather rate those higher than albums I don't think are Prog in Prog Related. Just because an album is in Prog Related, or Proto-Prog, doesn't mean the album is not Prog (and of course it could still be progressive rock without being Prog). b) In the Prog categories, accoording to the descriptions, we are still supposed to rate according to an album's Prog quotient whereas in Prog Related we aren't asked to. Of course there are many albums in Prog categories that are not really Prog, c) The rock quotient: There are many albums in the archives that aren't really rock, but we are expected, according to the guidelines, to rate them lower if they are not rock. So an album might be a maserpeice of progressive music, but because it's not rock it's rated lower. I do agree that an album like Kind of Blue should probably be rated lower than Bitches Brew since Davis is here for his Fusion albums, but it still seems a bit unfair on those non-rock bands. Should I rate Aranis lower, others in RIO, or bands in Electronic, and Folk, even if it's not best described as rock? Well, of course we artye according to the way a category works and, for instance, Aranis is accepted as Rock in Opposition (some bands have that element or attitude more submerged). It's understandable that progressive rock would progress farther from its rock roots. In a way, I thought that non-progressive rock music was getting a bit of a free ride. And now in Prog-Related if an album is rock but not progressive, or Prog, according to the guidelines it gets more of a free ride than a progressive album in Prog Related that is not rock. d) Music can be deemed progressive rock without being deemed Progressive Rock. Not all Prog is progressive and not all progressive rock is Prog. Since it mentions "progressive rock" rather than Prog (or Progressive Rock) one can still rate it on progressiveness and not in some generic sense. That noun versus adjective progressive rock/ Progressive Rock thing. |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 18:32
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If an album on here is a masterpiece I give it a 5, no matter what subgenre. I rate every album equally here. It would seem unfair to give a masterpiece a low rating because it isn't "progressive" enough.
------------- 
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: inrainbows
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 18:50
Not only prog enough but with some great prog moments as well ------------- 
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Hawkwise wrote:Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 18:57
What are you laughing at? Had someone said that Iron Maiden is Prog? |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 19:02
Lots of people on this site think they are, and they have a right to their opinion without being ridiculed. People like that are definitely not an asset to any serious site. |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 19:02
I'm getting a hint that you haven't heard Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son. Anyway, did anyone ever say they were? -------------
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 19:09
You are f**king useless, on the other hand.... to use your same language style
I have given 5 stars to many Iron Maiden albums. If a band is here, their albums have to be judge with the same standard. I would never put "Somewhere in time" in the same level as a 4 star album no matter how prog this second one could be... Prog is just a word....
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 19:23
Many people consider their music Prog, and Prog is often a pretty nebulous term and open to much interpretation, some others think it's progressive but not Prog, while others think it's Proggy etc. What I don't get is that that comment seems kind of out of the blue. Music can be progressive without being Prog, and Prog need not be progressive. I saw people discussing progressiveness before his post, but no-one saying it was Prog. Hawkwise, it is offensively expressed, and I hope it was just a joke. EDIT: ah now I get it. I hadn't noticed that this was posted in the Prog Lounge.  |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 20:08
Somewhere In Time and Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son, and A Matter Of Life And Death (the newest!) are the best, IMHO. Okay, not the "best," but certainly my faves!  ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 20:50
If you don't think Iron Maiden belong on PA as a prog-related band, then this is probably the wrong thread for you. The thread starter is looking for sincere advise, let's respect that. On another note, now I'm going to have that Run for the Hills song going through my brain all night, damn all of you , ha ha ha. |
Posted By: Hawkwise
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 20:56
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Why this thread in Prog Lounge ? Maybe there should be a heavy Metal Lounge ? whats next Motorhead ? ------------- 
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Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 20:59
I moved it to prog-related lounge, now please let the good people go back to their conversation. |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 00:51
Even better.  Thanks to David as well.------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: TheLastBaron
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 01:42
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Who really cares if they are progressive enough or not. They kick ass, they can all play very well, have great albums and the best mascot ever. Up the Irons!!!
------------- " Men are not prisoners of fate, but prisoners of their own minds." - FDR |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 05:41
Yes. If we decide to add Motorhead, we will, even if you disagree. You know, there are LOTS of other prog forums around the web who could use a troll like you. |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 05:55
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It's a mess, and it's beyond repair ... not much else to say about it. A good solution would be to allow reviews without ratings ... that way the reviewer would not be forced to submit an inconsistent/illogical rating.
------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 06:33
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Thank you for your opinions. I felt that giving Abbey Road 5 stars is needed, but backed by these arguments, I feel more confident. Yes, it's easier to be confident with more skilled people saying similar things, than have pedantic opinion "this is prog site and non-prog should be rated lover".
------------- There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu  Even my |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 06:45
People who have that opinion are fanatics, nothing more. I review for another prog site (Progressor), and often visits other prog sites, which are ALL more inclusive and open than this one. Many of the albums I have reviewed (and sometimes rated quite highly) would not be able to set foot here, or would be confined to Prog-Related. Obviously, the Talebans among us have always ignored me every time I have stated this simple fact. but this does not change things. No other prog site practices anything close to a policy of rating anything 'non-prog' lower than the 'real' prog stuff. Something of the sort would be slightly deranged, not to mention ridiculous. |
Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 07:43
When I started reviewing, I had in my mind one single thing, to which I focused and which helped me to register and wrote these hundred of words on my 1st one. I knew that Dark Side of the Moon is five star album. But soon I realized that things are not so easy. First I started to lower my enthusiasm and edit previous ratings. Degrade them if I felt it that way, after ecstasy fell down. And I have to say that DSotM was my oldest album. Then I learned to appreciate every single genre. Yes, this took a while, some I already knew and welcomed, with some I had few struggles, but now I can say that I'm more or less fair with them. My biggest failure is still probably death metal, but things are getting better. But proto-prog, that's easy, they're mostly Deep Purple, The Beatles and The Who. But Prog-related is far bigger group. Metallica, Iron Maiden and Asia, these appears in my mind. I don't know Iron Maiden much, but know that they're amongst better metal of these times. Same as with early Metallica. Yes, both aren't prog, but they're not trying to be. Not in normal, conventional way of this world, as we understand normal jazz/symphonic prog. But way how they do it is a good one. And it would be unfair to rate them as prog. Thanks that I'm not doing this. Mostly. Everyone does mistakes and I'm trying to avoid them. It's hard to be fair and I know that I have to rate fairly, not rate by "prog" pattern every time. EDIT: And I'm aware and I admit that I rated few Asia albums lower, also because of reason that they're not prog. But one of the reasons was fact that they're boring, playing same music all over. With same pattern, same style, no innovations, no variations. Almost no. And of course, prog related is also Queen & Led Zeppelin. ------------- There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu Even my |
Posted By: Hawkwise
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 08:09
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So Just because i have an opinion you don't like makes me a Troll ? So why Not drop the word Prog all together ? It has became so watered down it has became almost Meaningless, Why not just call this place the Rock Archives and be done with it. Prog related ? what does this really mean? How much Farther is it going to be stretched ? Hell why not throw in the Sex Pistols Or Public Image Ltd , Why not Madonna ? its all music, so it all could be related . SO Prog has it became a Meaningless Word ? -------------
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Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 08:17
This thread is not about whether Maiden or anyone else belongs here. This thread asked a very sincere question about rating prog related albums and everone but you has responded in a sincere helpful way. I never voted for Maiden's inclusion and i have no idea how I would have voted because my knowledge of their music is limited, but they are here like it or not. Please leave this thread alone, I will be discussing with the other admins possible action that might be taken if you continue to take this thread off topic. |
Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 08:33
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Posted By: Alberto Muņoz
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 11:12
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First thing that you have in mind to rate a IM album, is that IM have many musical rock facets, so it depends what might like you first.
If you are in the early years (prior to Number of the Beast) (like me), then you might like to use words defining the album and the songs an careful to avoid some cliches of reviewing albums.
Feel free to say what you think and feel about the music, that's the main reason about to write a review.
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 12:56
Indeed. I'd also like to echo Raf's good advice. There's tons of other Prog sites so crying out for members they'd even take a mirthless troll like you. Final warning. Now back on topic. |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: September 20 2009 at 16:40
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I just had a simple question, but it turned out to be a big problem. I do feel supported with rating my Iron Maiden collection. I will rate them as heavy metal (and not prog) and tell about the progressive influences in my reviews.
If you don't think bands like Iron Maiden belong on this side, you might want to skip on the PROG RELATED pages. Problem solved! |