Forum Home Forum Home > Other music related lounges > Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Phil Collins Studio albums
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedPhil Collins Studio albums
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Poll Question: Which is the best release from a progger's opinion
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
18 [52.94%]
9 [26.47%]
1 [2.94%]
4 [11.76%]
1 [2.94%]
1 [2.94%]
0 [0.00%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 13:07
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by meptune meptune wrote:

Like it or not, Phil's studio albums aren't prog, so why are we discussing them on Prog Archives? Additionally, much as I respect Phil, I don't own one of his studio albums. I don't like them. Enough said.



Enough said.
 
It shouldn't be here, it's place is GENERAL MUSIC
 
Iván

I thougt he was in Prog Related. I didn't bother to check.LOL

If he's not in PA, then you are right of course!Wink
Back to Top
rushfan4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66555 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 13:13
He should be in prog related, but certain members of the old guard would be extremely distraught if Phil Collins were ever to get a page here at PA, so it is never going to happen.
Back to Top
The T View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 13:17
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

He should be in prog related.
Back to Top
The Doctor View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
Status: Offline
Points: 8543 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 13:26
Not sure about that one.  I'm one of the Phil sympathizers on this board, and will defend him against pointless attacks for "destroying" Genesis, etc.  However, most of his solo stuff really doesn't have any relation to prog.  Sure, it can be fun, it can be good and emotional music at times, but if he hadn't been a member of Genesis and Brand X, no one here would ever even think to put his solo albums in PR.  Now, if your argument is that he should be in here out of a sense of completeness, because every other member of Genesis that has solo output is on here (at least I think they are), you might have an argument.  But currently, even PR is defined solely by the musical output of the person/band involved and his/her/their other groups are not considered in the evaluation (at least as far as I know).
 
Phil - some good pop music, some mediocre, some terrible, and some terrific.  But none of it would I really consider prog-related.
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
Back to Top
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 13:31
^^Not even for In The Air Tonight or that Genesis one on his first album?
Back to Top
The Doctor View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
Status: Offline
Points: 8543 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 14:08
^^ hehe.  except for the keyboard intro, and even that's pushing it, I don't really consider the Genesis version of that Genesis song (Behind the Lines btw Wink) prog-related.  More of a keyboard driven, funk, R&B kind of thing going on in that song (still love the song though) and Phil eliminates the keyboards, so...no.  Maybe In the Air Tonight, but even that one, I consider more of a great pop song than related to prog in anyway, aside of course from the performer. 
Just to reiterate, I actually love his first album.  And might support his inclusion for completion's sake, but don't really see his music as PR.  Good music doesn't = prog necessarily.  Shocked


Edited by The Doctor - July 01 2009 at 14:10
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
Back to Top
lazland View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13776 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 14:51
Face Value remains to this day one of the finest expressions of the loss and devastation anyone feels after the breakup of a marriage or relationship ever written - full of emotion, excellent songs, and playing.

For all of the poor stuff that followed, and I do agree with most posters on the site with that, this was a great album and one I will always enjoy listening to.

 
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
Back to Top
akamaisondufromage View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: May 16 2009
Location: Blighty
Status: Offline
Points: 6797 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 15:07
Once upon a time Phil couldn't do any wrong in my eyes (ears?) and I bought all the Genesis albums - up to Three Sides Live I think.  And I bought in the Air Tonight before the album came out with the booklet drawn by his brother. 
 
But after that its so Middle of the Road and I can't bare it ...so.. Face Value purely for the single and the drums that I so loved the first time I heard it.Big smile
 
 
Help me I'm falling!
Back to Top
Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 15:17
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

He should be in prog related, but certain members of the old guard would be extremely distraught if Phil Collins were ever to get a page here at PA, so it is never going to happen.
 
Why must he be here?
 
Has he wrote any Prog composition as a solo artist?
 
Are his songs related to Prog?
 
No in boith cases, he has no business here.
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 01 2009 at 16:17
            
Back to Top
rushfan4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66555 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 15:19
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

He should be in prog related, but certain members of the old guard would be extremely distraught if Phil Collins were ever to get a page here at PA, so it is never going to happen.
 
Why must he be here?
 
Has he wrote any Prog composition as a solo artist?
 
Are his songs related to rog?
 
No in boith cases, he has no business here.
 
Iván
Old guard sighting. LOL
Back to Top
Padraic View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 15:20
A valid inquiry, nonetheless.  Stern Smile
Back to Top
rushfan4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66555 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 15:23
I'm not reliving this discussion.  Please feel free to visit this thread where all of the arguments for and against have been made.   http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43521&KW=phil+collins&PID=2690691#2690691
Back to Top
Padraic View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 15:27
Looks like it was you against the world.  LOL
Back to Top
Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 16:13
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

He should be in prog related, but certain members of the old guard would be extremely distraught if Phil Collins were ever to get a page here at PA, so it is never going to happen.
 
Why must he be here?
 
Has he wrote any Prog composition as a solo artist?
 
Are his songs related to rog?
 
No in boith cases, he has no business here.
 
Iván
Old guard sighting. LOL
 
Not only the Old Guard as you call us (Even when I doubt anyone is olde at the age of  44 years...You'll be my age in 5 years LOL):
 
Quote
Easy Livin View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Site Admin & Moderator

Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2007 at 05:35
As I've just mentioned in another thread, I've jsut noticed that PC is already on our list of artists rejected for Prog related.
The Ultimate Progressive Rock Music Discography, Reviews and Forum.
www.ProgArchives.com
 
 
 
I believe that was clear enough almost two years ago.
 
It's not a complot of the evil old guys, it's that simply Phil Collins hasn't written a Prog note in his life, at least as soloist.
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 01 2009 at 16:34
            
Back to Top
Chris S View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 20:29
^ As a soloist you are mostly right. Still it does not diminish his influence whilst in the prog scene and his Brand X exploits even make Gabriel look like a Jonathan King science project.
 
I wanted to keep the thread positive but if people dismiss his works purely because they ain't prog then again progressive is not the only enjoyable genre outthere surely?
 
If we are going to argue whether Collins's specifically does not claim a place is this small piece of cyberspace of the prog archives then those people arguing against him here are right but hell so what, put him in the just for fun section and let's get down and dirty with some Roger Hodgson solo works....now that is progShocked
 
Anyway looks like Face Value is winning hands down, which is arguably his most progressive workClap


Edited by Chris S - July 01 2009 at 20:30
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
Back to Top
jammun View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 22:01
I think Face Value is a pretty decent album, with at least two great songs (that would be the first two). 
 
But our old friend Richard Thompson covered the 'lay your emotions on the table' angle better, particularly with Shoot Out the Lights (which was of course special since Linda was along for the ride so that they could actually spout venom at each other, albeit in dreamy, surreal musical ecstasy (Just the Motion).  And he expresses pure venom much better on Across a Crowded Room.  And the music's better too boot.
 
All that aside, when the real drums come in on In The Air Tonight is a nice little moment in time.
Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
Back to Top
Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 22:27
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

As a soloist you are mostly right. Still it does not diminish his influence whilst in the prog scene and his Brand X exploits even make Gabriel look like a Jonathan King science project.
 
Brand X is here by own right, the influence of BRAND X is clear in Prog Fusion, but he was only a part of the band this has no relation with his work as a soloist.
 
And about Brand X being superior to Genesis, well that's your oipinion which I respect but don't share.
 
 
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

I wanted to keep the thread positive but if people dismiss his works purely because they ain't prog then again progressive is not the only enjoyable genre outthere surely?
 
At least in my case I dismiss his solo work because I believe it's horrible, can't stand 2 minutes of his music, this has no relation with him not being Prog, there's a lot of great non Prog out there, but I believe Phil Collins music is boring Adult Contemporary music.
 
If you check, I have suggested a third Phil Collins band for Prog Related, I'm talking about Flaming Youth.
 
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

If we are going to argue whether Collins's specifically does not claim a place is this small piece of cyberspace of the prog archives then those people arguing against him here are right but hell so what, put him in the just for fun section and let's get down and dirty with some Roger Hodgson solo works....now that is progShocked
 
One mistake (if Hodgson is a mistake) is not a justification for another mistake like adding a man tha has never released a Prog or Prog Related album because some people like his music..
 
Anyway, i haven'theard any Hodgson solo work, except in his concert where I went to listen Supertramp music, which I believe is not remotely Prog but good.
 
Now, more related threads have been moved to the General Music section, there is the right place for Collins (not the Just for Fun section), because what started as a best album poll, has changed into a a suggestion for his addition, but it's not my call.
 
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Anyway looks like Face Value is winning hands down, which is arguably his most progressive workClap
 
 
Probably his best album (for the ones who like it) but not Progressive at all IMO.
 
Ivan


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 01 2009 at 22:31
            
Back to Top
jammun View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 23:08
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Anyway looks like Face Value is winning hands down, which is arguably his most progressive workClap
 
 
Probably his best album (for the ones who like it) but not Progressive at all IMO.
 
Ivan
[/QUOTE]
But wouldn't you say a very prog-influenced album?  I think In The Air Tonight, while having mainstream tendencies, was not exactly an average mainstream song at the time, yet it was getting some airplay.  Agreed that's only one song on the album.
 
It was a strange time, that era, musically.  Face Value wasn't prog, wasn't quite pop.  It seems The Wall was released about that time.  I remember being confused...my problem, I was going through major life changes at the time.  I was done with ELP and Yes.  My timelines are foggy, but possibly Crimson didn't even exist at the time.  For those of us who followed prog a bit through the Dark Ages, Face Value was a glimmering little example that perhaps all was not lost.   
Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
Back to Top
Chris S View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 23:21
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

As a soloist you are mostly right. Still it does not diminish his influence whilst in the prog scene and his Brand X exploits even make Gabriel look like a Jonathan King science project.
 
Brand X is here by own right, the influence of BRAND X is clear in Prog Fusion, but he was only a part of the band this has no relation with his work as a soloist.
 
And about Brand X being superior to Genesis, well that's your oipinion which I respect but don't share.
 
 
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

I wanted to keep the thread positive but if people dismiss his works purely because they ain't prog then again progressive is not the only enjoyable genre outthere surely?
 
At least in my case I dismiss his solo work because I believe it's horrible, can't stand 2 minutes of his music, this has no relation with him not being Prog, there's a lot of great non Prog out there, but I believe Phil Collins music is boring Adult Contemporary music.
 
If you check, I have suggested a third Phil Collins band for Prog Related, I'm talking about Flaming Youth.
 
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

If we are going to argue whether Collins's specifically does not claim a place is this small piece of cyberspace of the prog archives then those people arguing against him here are right but hell so what, put him in the just for fun section and let's get down and dirty with some Roger Hodgson solo works....now that is progShocked
 
One mistake (if Hodgson is a mistake) is not a justification for another mistake like adding a man tha has never released a Prog or Prog Related album because some people like his music..
 
Anyway, i haven'theard any Hodgson solo work, except in his concert where I went to listen Supertramp music, which I believe is not remotely Prog but good.
 
Now, more related threads have been moved to the General Music section, there is the right place for Collins (not the Just for Fun section), because what started as a best album poll, has changed into a a suggestion for his addition, but it's not my call.
 
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Anyway looks like Face Value is winning hands down, which is arguably his most progressive workClap
 
 
Probably his best album (for the ones who like it) but not Progressive at all IMO.
 
Ivan
All fair points Ivan........no Brand X is not superior to Genesis IMO just more obscure that was what I was trying to say in that Collin's dabbled in more progressive side project/s than the others with Brand X
,Flaming Youth is a good call also.
 
Now not for me to say and yes I personally think it is a glaring ommssion of PA to exclude Phil Collins but that is for another time and future discussions. God knows we have argueds that point ad nauseum. 
I am impressed that the second studio album is fairing quite well in the pollsClap 
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
Back to Top
Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2009 at 00:02
Originally posted by jammun jammun wrote:

you say a very prog-influenced album?  I think In The Air Tonight, while having mainstream tendencies, was not exactly an average mainstream song at the time, yet it was getting some airplay.  Agreed that's only one song on the album.
 
In the Air Tonight is a POP song nothing more IMO, I see no Prog influence in the album, as a fact Phil Collins was trying to get rid of everything that could relate him to Prog.
 
 
Originally posted by jammun jammun wrote:

It was a strange time, that era, musically.  Face Value wasn't prog, wasn't quite pop.  It seems The Wall was released about that time.  I remember being confused...my problem, I was going through major life changes at the time.  I was done with ELP and Yes.  My timelines are foggy, but possibly Crimson didn't even exist at the time.  For those of us who followed prog a bit through the Dark Ages, Face Value was a glimmering little example that perhaps all was not lost.   
 
Well, I got several good albums released in 1981, the same year as Face Value.
 
  1. Avenida Larco - Frágil (The first 100% Prog album in Perú)
  2. Moving Pictures - Rush
  3. Alturas de Macchu Picchu - Loa Jaivas
  4. Mystical Adventures - Jean Luc Ponty (His best release ever IMO)
  5. Asturcon - Asturcon
  6. Familjesprickor - Zamla Mammas Manna (Released at the end of 1980, but reached Perú in 1981)
  7. Long Distance Voyager - Moody Blues (IMO the best Moody album ever)
  8. Between Flesh and Devine - Asia Minor
  9. Divergencie - Collegium Musicum
  10. 1984 - Anthony Phillips
And many more.
 
BTW: King Crimson released Discipline the same year as Face Vaklue, but everybody knows I like very few albums by KC and Discipline is not one of them, so no mention above.
 
So if you were looking towards YES and ELP, probably very little to find, but there were a lot of bands making great Prog and great non Prog albums like
 
  1. High Infidelity - Reo Speedwagoon
  2. Paradise Theater - STYX
  3. For Those About to Rock We Salute You - AC/DC
  4. Ghost in the Machine - The Police
  5. Diary of a Madman - Ozzy Osbourne
  6. High 'N' Dry - Def Leppard
  7. El Loco - ZZ Top
  8. Bella Donna - Stevie Nicks
  9. Tatoo You - Rolling Stones
  10. Turn Back - Toto

So, I had no need for Phil Collins in 1981 (or ever to be honest).

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 02 2009 at 10:48
            
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.148 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.