Phil Collins Studio albums
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Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=59198
Printed Date: February 06 2025 at 17:15
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Topic: Phil Collins Studio albums
Posted By: Chris S
Subject: Phil Collins Studio albums
Date Posted: June 30 2009 at 23:06
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OK, this may be frowned upon being in the prog section but let us give the BRAND X/GENESIS man some credit. From a progger's perspective which is his best studio effort regardless of prog credentials or not.
NO knocking the guy, remember he did the most obscure prog with Brand X so let's give him some credit and keep the thread clean. ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Replies:
Posted By: Kazuhiro
Date Posted: June 30 2009 at 23:42
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I voted on the second album. "Thru These Walls" is my one of the favorites. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 30 2009 at 23:49
Burn em' all 
Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 01:27
I'll chip in the gas........................
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Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:Posted By: zbida
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 01:50
| I like most of Phil's solo work, but especially Face Value (what a specific mood here!). And I agree with kazuhiro - Thru' These Walls is a gem. |
Posted By: mistertorture
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 01:53
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I think But Seriously is his best album, there is no filler there, as a pop /aor album is perfect, also the production is not cliched as NJR. In addition is his best drumming performance from his solo career and the instrumental is great. But Seriously Hello I Must be Going No Jacket Required -------------  
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 02:14
His debut album for me is easily the best. Quite enjoyable.!
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 02:43
------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: meptune
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 02:48
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Like it or not, Phil's studio albums aren't prog, so why are we discussing them on Prog Archives? Additionally, much as I respect Phil, I don't own one of his studio albums. I don't like them. Enough said. ------------- 
"Arf, she said" |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 03:13
Thanks for sharing. ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 03:16
This polls location... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=64 - Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge Enough said. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 03:27
Cool ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 03:38
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Prog or not, But Seriously is a good album. ------------- 
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Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 05:54
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Face Value is my favorite. Such an intense and emotional album from start to finish. Great for breakups. I'm also a fan of Dance Into the Light, as all the drums on the album are real, and it has a jazzy feel to a lot of it. Hello and Seriously are also good albums. Never been a fan of No Jacket, Both Sides or Testify. ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: Gog/Magog
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 06:45
Then move the ones about Zappa, Beatles, Supertramp etc etc... while you're at it -------------  |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 06:48
I haven't moved anything, nor could I. Chris posted in the correct place from the start. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 08:15
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I haven't heard most of them but Face Value was OK. Not enough for me to buy one though. I bet I can get a CD dirt cheap used though.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: SgtPepper67
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 10:04
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I bought Face Value a couple of months ago and it's an amazing album. Hello I must be going is pretty good too. I don't like all the later albums that much but he still did some great songs like Take me home, I wish it would rain down and Against all odds. ------------- 
In the end the love you take is equal to the love you made... |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 10:50
It shouldn't be here, it's place is GENERAL MUSIC
Iván -------------
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 11:58
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But.. Seriously is the best album as most of the songs are pretty good, but some of PC's best solo moments are in Face Value and No Jacket Required.... ------------- 
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 13:07
I thougt he was in Prog Related. I didn't bother to check.  If he's not in PA, then you are right of course!  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 13:13
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He should be in prog related, but certain members of the old guard would be extremely distraught if Phil Collins were ever to get a page here at PA, so it is never going to happen. ------------- 
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 13:17
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Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 13:26
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Not sure about that one. I'm one of the Phil sympathizers on this board, and will defend him against pointless attacks for "destroying" Genesis, etc. However, most of his solo stuff really doesn't have any relation to prog. Sure, it can be fun, it can be good and emotional music at times, but if he hadn't been a member of Genesis and Brand X, no one here would ever even think to put his solo albums in PR. Now, if your argument is that he should be in here out of a sense of completeness, because every other member of Genesis that has solo output is on here (at least I think they are), you might have an argument. But currently, even PR is defined solely by the musical output of the person/band involved and his/her/their other groups are not considered in the evaluation (at least as far as I know).
Phil - some good pop music, some mediocre, some terrible, and some terrific. But none of it would I really consider prog-related. ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 13:31
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^^Not even for In The Air Tonight or that Genesis one on his first album? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 14:08
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^^ hehe. except for the keyboard intro, and even that's pushing it, I don't really consider the Genesis version of that Genesis song (Behind the Lines btw ) prog-related. More of a keyboard driven, funk, R&B kind of thing going on in that song (still love the song though) and Phil eliminates the keyboards, so...no. Maybe In the Air Tonight, but even that one, I consider more of a great pop song than related to prog in anyway, aside of course from the performer.
Just to reiterate, I actually love his first album. And might support his inclusion for completion's sake, but don't really see his music as PR. Good music doesn't = prog necessarily.  ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 14:51
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Face Value remains to this day one of the finest expressions of the loss and devastation anyone feels after the breakup of a marriage or relationship ever written - full of emotion, excellent songs, and playing. For all of the poor stuff that followed, and I do agree with most posters on the site with that, this was a great album and one I will always enjoy listening to. 
------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 15:07
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Once upon a time Phil couldn't do any wrong in my eyes (ears?) and I bought all the Genesis albums - up to Three Sides Live I think. And I bought in the Air Tonight before the album came out with the booklet drawn by his brother.
But after that its so Middle of the Road and I can't bare it ...so.. Face Value purely for the single and the drums that I so loved the first time I heard it.
 ------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 15:17
Why must he be here?
Has he wrote any Prog composition as a solo artist?
Are his songs related to Prog?
No in boith cases, he has no business here.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 15:19
 -------------
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 15:20
A valid inquiry, nonetheless. 
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 15:23
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I'm not reliving this discussion. Please feel free to visit this thread where all of the arguments for and against have been made. http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43521&KW=phil+collins&PID=2690691#2690691 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43521&KW=phil+collins&PID=2690691#2690691 -------------
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 15:27
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Looks like it was you against the world.
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 16:13
Not only the Old Guard as you call us (Even when I doubt anyone is olde at the age of 44 years...You'll be my age in 5 years
):
I believe that was clear enough almost two years ago.
It's not a complot of the evil old guys, it's that simply Phil Collins hasn't written a Prog note in his life, at least as soloist.
Iván -------------
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Posted: November 16 2007 at 05:35Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 20:29
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^ As a soloist you are mostly right. Still it does not diminish his influence whilst in the prog scene and his Brand X exploits even make Gabriel look like a Jonathan King science project.
I wanted to keep the thread positive but if people dismiss his works purely because they ain't prog then again progressive is not the only enjoyable genre outthere surely?
If we are going to argue whether Collins's specifically does not claim a place is this small piece of cyberspace of the prog archives then those people arguing against him here are right but hell so what, put him in the just for fun section and let's get down and dirty with some Roger Hodgson solo works....now that is prog
Anyway looks like Face Value is winning hands down, which is arguably his most progressive work  ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 22:01
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I think Face Value is a pretty decent album, with at least two great songs (that would be the first two).
But our old friend Richard Thompson covered the 'lay your emotions on the table' angle better, particularly with Shoot Out the Lights (which was of course special since Linda was along for the ride so that they could actually spout venom at each other, albeit in dreamy, surreal musical ecstasy (Just the Motion). And he expresses pure venom much better on Across a Crowded Room. And the music's better too boot.
All that aside, when the real drums come in on In The Air Tonight is a nice little moment in time. ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 22:27
Brand X is here by own right, the influence of BRAND X is clear in Prog Fusion, but he was only a part of the band this has no relation with his work as a soloist.
And about Brand X being superior to Genesis, well that's your oipinion which I respect but don't share.
At least in my case I dismiss his solo work because I believe it's horrible, can't stand 2 minutes of his music, this has no relation with him not being Prog, there's a lot of great non Prog out there, but I believe Phil Collins music is boring Adult Contemporary music.
If you check, I have suggested a third Phil Collins band for Prog Related, I'm talking about Flaming Youth.
One mistake (if Hodgson is a mistake) is not a justification for another mistake like adding a man tha has never released a Prog or Prog Related album because some people like his music..
Anyway, i haven'theard any Hodgson solo work, except in his concert where I went to listen Supertramp music, which I believe is not remotely Prog but good.
Now, more related threads have been moved to the General Music section, there is the right place for Collins (not the Just for Fun section), because what started as a best album poll, has changed into a a suggestion for his addition, but it's not my call.
Probably his best album (for the ones who like it) but not Progressive at all IMO.
Ivan -------------
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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 23:08
Probably his best album (for the ones who like it) but not Progressive at all IMO.
Ivan [/QUOTE]
But wouldn't you say a very prog-influenced album? I think In The Air Tonight, while having mainstream tendencies, was not exactly an average mainstream song at the time, yet it was getting some airplay. Agreed that's only one song on the album.
It was a strange time, that era, musically. Face Value wasn't prog, wasn't quite pop. It seems The Wall was released about that time. I remember being confused...my problem, I was going through major life changes at the time. I was done with ELP and Yes. My timelines are foggy, but possibly Crimson didn't even exist at the time. For those of us who followed prog a bit through the Dark Ages, Face Value was a glimmering little example that perhaps all was not lost. ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 23:21
Now not for me to say and yes I personally think it is a glaring ommssion of PA to exclude Phil Collins but that is for another time and future discussions. God knows we have argueds that point ad nauseum.
I am impressed that the second studio album is fairing quite well in the polls ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 02 2009 at 00:02
In the Air Tonight is a POP song nothing more IMO, I see no Prog influence in the album, as a fact Phil Collins was trying to get rid of everything that could relate him to Prog.
Well, I got several good albums released in 1981, the same year as Face Value.
And many more.
BTW: King Crimson released Discipline the same year as Face Vaklue, but everybody knows I like very few albums by KC and Discipline is not one of them, so no mention above.
So if you were looking towards YES and ELP, probably very little to find, but there were a lot of bands making great Prog and great non Prog albums like
So, I had no need for Phil Collins in 1981 (or ever to be honest). Iván -------------
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 02 2009 at 01:52
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Yep Phil Collins for Prog Related. I would vote for that! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: July 02 2009 at 03:13
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No prog and no prog related IMHO. Face Value is innovative but not prog the way PA stipulated it.
Drone sounds slightly progressive but one song is not enough to make an artist prog.
Don't get me wrong, I do like Phil Collins, his first two albums especially. On the later albums I find some fillers, but I think he has a great sense of melody, and I think most of his albums are good. Well composed, well sung, good band members, good production.
Face Value is his most artistic album, but my pick would be Hello, I Must Be Going. On that album a lot of the typical elements of the Phil Collins sound (drum based soul songs, sensitive ballads and Motown swing) are in a wonderful balance.
Plus I'm a sucker for his version of The Mindbenders' Groovy Kind Of Love. The cd single from that song is short but wonderful. Big Noise is a wonderful happy swinging song and Will You Still Be Waiting is a lovely syrupy instrumental. Once again, a great balance, and a lot of variety in a time span of less than 10 minutes.
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Posted By: American Khatru
Date Posted: July 02 2009 at 05:07
 Man. Reading through this thread so far, let it be said that Iván is tearing sh*t up in here! My fingers are very relaxed and feel no need to type more.  -------------  Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"? |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: July 02 2009 at 14:22
yes, Like
Eloy-Planets
Mike Oldfield-QE2
Camel-Nude
Anyone's Daughter-Piktors Verwandlungen
Pererin-Teithgan
Sky-Sky 3
Blue Oyster Cult-Fire of Unknown Origin
Osiris-Osiris
Magdalena (Basque)-Lanean Sartzen
Alan Stivell-Terre Des Vivants
Aigues Vives - Water of Seasons
Franco Battiato - La Voce del Padrone
not bad, not to mention some good poppy albums by "prog" artists, like Alan Parsons and even Steve Hackett. I too like Face Value, but other than "In the Air Tonight", nothing even sounds prog related to me
Ken
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Posted By: American Khatru
Date Posted: July 02 2009 at 14:41
------------- Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"? |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: July 02 2009 at 15:38
Well we agree then after all; this is exactly the crew that Face Value hangs out with. ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: July 03 2009 at 02:46
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Posted By: tdfloyd
Date Posted: July 27 2009 at 09:54
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Never understood the hatred for Phil, even while in Genesis. You would think he was a murderer. Everything I've read about Genesis tells you that Tony Banks is the one in the engine room. I also think PG gets too much credit within Genesis. Except for the Lamb, the lyrics were a group project. The music on the Lamb was not by PG and he never played anything of consequence except for the rare flute passage in the very early days.
Back to the original thread, he's got a weak album (Dance), an album that is too far pop for my liking ( No Jacket) , two excellent albums (the first two), one that is pretty close (But Seriously) . Both Side is very personal and stripped down and while it is not here, Hot Night in Paris is quite good with Phil stretching into Big Band territory.
Hello gets my vote.
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Posted By: progvortex
Date Posted: July 27 2009 at 21:54
*struggles to keep mouth shut* |