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micky 
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
 Posted: March 26 2009 at 11:54 |
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yes... trickle down economics.... that sort of got proven to be the crime of the century.....and I sure as hell don't have a degree in economics but know that if a man gets paid millions upon millions... he KEEPS those millions.. Buys a bigger boat... bigger home... the american worker is ...always has been the loser in that theory.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: March 26 2009 at 11:55 |
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What's fair? Here's what's not fair: CEO-to-worker pay imbalance grows
See
Snapshots Archive. This week's Snapshot previews data to be presented as part of the forthcoming The State of Working America 2006/07. Snapshot for June 21, 2006. CEO-to-worker pay imbalance grows In 2005, the average CEO in the United States earned 262 times the pay of the average worker, the second-highest level of this ratio in the 40 years for which there are data. In 2005, a CEO earned more in one workday (there are 260 in a year) than an average worker earned in 52 weeks. The 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s have been prosperous times for top U.S. executives, especially relative to other wage earners. This can be seen by examining the increased divergence between CEO pay and an average worker’s pay over time, as shown in Figure A. In 1965, U.S. CEOs in major companies earned 24 times more than an average worker; this ratio grew to 35 in 1978 and to 71 in 1989. The ratio surged in the 1990s and hit 300 at the end of the recovery in 2000. The fall in the stock market reduced CEO stock-related pay (e.g., options) causing CEO pay to moderate to 143 times that of an average worker in 2002. Since then, however, CEO pay has exploded and by 2005 the average CEO was paid $10,982,000 a year, or 262 times that of an average worker ($41,861).
*Data note: Edited by Slartibartfast - March 26 2009 at 12:05 |
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: March 26 2009 at 11:56 |
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Can I assume by this you want to lower top earners salaries, not raise low earners wages? Doesn't really answer my question. |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18005 |
Posted: March 26 2009 at 11:56 |
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Hi,
Weird that you are calling that another "ism" ... it's hardly socialism (in its classic definition) ... and neither is it anything else in your book ... obviously!
BTW ... if that's your artistry to get attention, let me assure you that your stage minutes won't even add up to 10 minutes ... maybe 5 ... and someone will just turn around and leave ... and not even throw a tomato at you as a sign that they saw you!
If stuff like this bothers you ... have a cigar ... oooppppssss sorry ... have a lesson ... go sit through Pasolini's film 1900 .... then I think that you will come here adn delete your post ...
I'm betting a nickel now!
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 03 2007 Location: The Heartland Status: Offline Points: 17231 |
Posted: March 26 2009 at 11:57 |
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Some people believe in hoarding all the marbles. Others believe in sharing the marbles. That'll never be settled.
I'm certainly not for giving checks to people for sitting on the couch watching TV.
What I am for is taking care of old/sick people who have played by all the rules their whole life. Getting sick should not mean going bankrupt....ever.
And yes, the top 5% can pick up a hefty share and still have enough left for another Rolex.
All I have to say.
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...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32552 |
Posted: March 26 2009 at 11:59 |
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You know, you could get an MBA, work your way up and become a CEO and make millions. Nobody's stopping you.
Why complain about CEOs? What about NBA players? They make more than average workers. Bottom line is this- businesses exist to make a profit. Take away that incentive, and business will stop coming into existence. Meaning "the poor workers" will have no wage to complain about at all. |
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: March 26 2009 at 11:59 |
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32552 |
Posted: March 26 2009 at 12:02 |
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Also, there's this: I would bet my last beer that if we redistributed all wealth, you will have poverty again in a very short time. Some people don't know how to manage wealth. Give everyone a small fortune, and some will have a bigger fortune, some will stagnate, and some will be begging for dimes drinking King Cobra.
Back to square one. |
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: March 26 2009 at 12:04 |
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To head off discussion going off in extremis, I'll assume that those in favor of "wealth distribution" mean, as Jim said, that everyone get some basic entitlements (healthcare, pension, etc.) and a progressive tax structure akin to what we have now, perhaps just tweaking the numbers. I don't think anyone is advocating something foolish like "everyone gets paid the same". But please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: March 26 2009 at 12:04 |
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I don't view CEOs being fairly compensated and workers being fairly compensated as opposing ideas. No one's talking about taking away the profit motive. And it should be remembered that without the workers to do the work and buy the stuff that is produced the CEO's would all be out of a job.
Edited by Slartibartfast - March 26 2009 at 12:09 |
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32552 |
Posted: March 26 2009 at 12:06 |
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Yep. |
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: March 26 2009 at 12:06 |
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What's fair? |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: March 26 2009 at 12:08 |
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The Maximum Wage: A Common-Sense Prescription for Revitalizing America - By Taxing the Very Rich (Paperback)by Sam Pizzigati (Author), Howard Saunders (Illustrator)
Edited by Slartibartfast - March 26 2009 at 12:09 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32552 |
Posted: March 26 2009 at 12:08 |
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Also something to be mindful of: Some business owners will gladly take their business to another country with a lower tax rate (a common objection to the flat tax system).
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Chris S
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 09 2004 Location: Front Range Status: Offline Points: 7028 |
Posted: March 26 2009 at 12:10 |
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^ Redistribution of wealth happened in Africa ( is happening) largely due to the fallout of greed from colonisation. Europe deserted for the most part once the profits of doom (sic) were loud and clear.
Now it is happening in reverse. Take farms and land away and give to the uneducated to overgraze the land and create deserts......
tis a fine line......as for USA, those CEO's need a social " Thief' running riot up their rear end! The taxpayer deserves to get that payback justice at the very least.
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...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: March 26 2009 at 12:11 |
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exactly... re-distribution of wealth... is exactly what it means.... paying the CEO's what they are worth (less).. and the American worker what they are worth (more). If anyone here thinks that the current balance is fair... 262 times the average worker.... you are truly beyond help and discussion here in this thread. Without the worker..the the main producer.. and also the main consumer.. the whole thing falls apart. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 03 2007 Location: The Heartland Status: Offline Points: 17231 |
Posted: March 26 2009 at 12:12 |
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That is correct, for me. I'm talking about a system akin to Scandinavia, where people believe taking care of each other is moral and last time I checked, they still have plenty of rich people in Denmark, France, Sweden, et al...
I'd like to see a system where people who are willing to work and save money will be taken care of in their older years, *without worry* I'm so tired of seeing old people choose between medicine and food, of seeing people get cancer and have to worry about losing their job because of chemo side effects. Having to organize bake sales to help cover their 50000$ in medical bills that their "insurance" doesn't want to pay for.
That is so immoral for our good God-fearing country.
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...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32552 |
Posted: March 26 2009 at 12:16 |
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But that's the question: Who says what they are worth? As it is now, companies and workers both have a role in deciding what they get paid. Workers compete with each other to obtain jobs (by pursuing education, experience, etc), and companies compete to earn a profit. If a company wants to pay me minimum wage and I believe that based on my skills and experience, I should be paid more, I'll look elsewhere. And if a company wants to pay their CEO millions a year, that's for the company to decide. It's their money that they (presumably) legally made. If I want to make millions, I can either work my way up, or take the risk (yes- business owners took a huge risk) of starting my own business. |
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
Posted: March 26 2009 at 12:21 |
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I lived in Finland for close to six years, and what I can tell you is that yes, there are rich people, but they are nowhere as ostentatious of their wealth as they are here in the US, or even in my native country of Italy. As a matter of fact, showing off wealth is considered to be very bad form in the Scandinavian countries. I had several friends who were quite well-off, but lived very sensibly - comfortably, but without excess. And hopefully no one will bring up the suicide rate in those countries, which has nothing to do with the socio-political system at all. As to your second point, I cannot deny being worried for my future. Even with insurance, an unexpected illness could wipe out half or more of my savings... Hopefully, things will change in one way or the other. I can understand not wanting to pay benefits for lazy people (who, in my humble opinion, will always exist), but not adding insult to injury in the presence of a serious illness. |
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 03 2007 Location: The Heartland Status: Offline Points: 17231 |
Posted: March 26 2009 at 12:21 |
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Mick, I believe the correct number is something like 400+ times the average worker. If that's moral, so be it as long as we can tax em Swedish style.
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...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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Socialism.. does anyone have a clue.
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NaturalScience wrote:
