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Poll Question: Was Revolver the first Beatles album with a relation to Prog??
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Chelsea View Drop Down
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Points: 44 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2008 at 13:21
Originally posted by Abrawang Abrawang wrote:

If only for "Tomorrow Never Knows".  Overall a disjointed, uneven album but with enough flashes of the Beatles genius that's it's a success.  Sgt. Pepper's seemed to master the styles mix a lot better and the songs, overall, were better. How prog would it have sounded without TNK?
 
 
 

Has anyone heard of the Beatles Psychedelic style?  I argue that no one was doing these things in 1966 in relation to rock music but specifically to their style of Psychedelic Pop/Rock.

 

Love You To- is considered the first pop song to emulate non-western form in this case Indian Music in structure and instrumentation. The track uses traditional Indian instruments tabla, sitar and tamboura with a western pop song- The Dawn Of Indian Music In The West author Peter Lavezzoli

 

I'm Only Sleeping- has backward guitar leads with with a twin backward guitar solo

 

"Eleanor Rigby" influenced by classical music with just a string octet and vocals arrangement

 

"Tomorrow Never Knows" Musically, it is based on Indian drones, with a strongly syncopated repetitive drum-beat, and is considered to be among the earliest precursors of electronica. . Much of the backing track consists of a series of prepared tape loops, stemming from Lennon's and McCartney's interest in and experiments with magnetic tape and musique concrete techniques at that time.  Backward guitar solos, vocals through Leslie speakers, and drum loops.

 

 "She Said She Said" has changing time signatures.

 



Edited by Chelsea - December 19 2008 at 13:23
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2008 at 14:45
Originally posted by pelican pelican wrote:

My husband is a pretty big Beatles fan (me - not so much, but I respect them).  However, he was not too familiar with their catalogue. So, I bought "Revolver" for him and it is his favorite album. Eleanor Rigby, Happiness is a Warm Gun, Strawberry Fields, Day in the Life, Taxman, Mr. Kite, Blackbird and Rocky Raccoon are his favorite songs.

I see, weird version of the album that has songs that were from the future and not on the actual Revolver album. Wink
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 20030 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2008 at 15:09
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by pelican pelican wrote:

My husband is a pretty big Beatles fan (me - not so much, but I respect them).  However, he was not too familiar with their catalogue. So, I bought "Revolver" for him and it is his favorite album. Eleanor Rigby, Happiness is a Warm Gun, Strawberry Fields, Day in the Life, Taxman, Mr. Kite, Blackbird and Rocky Raccoon are his favorite songs.

I see, weird version of the album that has songs that were from the future and not on the actual Revolver album. Wink

LOL
I think that all came out the wrong way. At least 2 of them are on Revolver!
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Points: 2134 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2008 at 12:16
I think their prog leanings can be traced back to "A Hard Day's Night" or at least a few singles before "Revolver".
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Points: 7826 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2008 at 12:39
Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

I think their prog leanings can be traced back to "A Hard Day's Night" or at least a few singles before "Revolver".


I love A Hard Day's Night as a rock n' roll album, but what on that was progressive at all?

It's a great album, but isn't progressive one bit.

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Points: 44 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2008 at 13:37
Originally posted by progrocker2244 progrocker2244 wrote:

Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

I think their prog leanings can be traced back to "A Hard Day's Night" or at least a few singles before "Revolver".


I love A Hard Day's Night as a rock n' roll album, but what on that was progressive at all?

It's a great album, but isn't progressive one bit.
 
 It's not  Progressive rock but it sure was influential on other genres that would influence Progressive Rock.
 
 "George Harrison resonant 12-string electric guitar leads were hugely influential; the movie helped persuade the Byrds, then folksingers, to plunge all out into rock & roll, and the Beatles (along with Bob Dylan) would be hugely influential on the folk-rock explosion of 1965. The Beatles' success, too, had begun to open the U.S. market for fellow Brits like the Rolling Stones, the Animals and the  Kinks, and inspired young American groups like the Beu Breummels and Lovin Spoonful and others to mount a challenge of their own with self-penned material that owed a great debt to Lennon-McCartney".- All Music Guide Biography on the Beatles.
 
The harmony on tracks  like "Things We Said Today", "If I Fell", "And I Love Her" and "I'll Be Back" were only matched by the Beach Boys maybe and the Kinks not there yet in Rock and Roll. Plus it  did not hurt all the songs were written and played by the Beatles and even the Beach Boys had to rely on session players.


Edited by Chelsea - December 20 2008 at 13:39
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Points: 7826 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2008 at 14:55
Originally posted by Chelsea Chelsea wrote:

Originally posted by progrocker2244 progrocker2244 wrote:

Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

I think their prog leanings can be traced back to "A Hard Day's Night" or at least a few singles before "Revolver".


I love A Hard Day's Night as a rock n' roll album, but what on that was progressive at all?

It's a great album, but isn't progressive one bit.
 
 It's not  Progressive rock but it sure was influential on other genres that would influence Progressive Rock.
 
 "George Harrison resonant 12-string electric guitar leads were hugely influential; the movie helped persuade the Byrds, then folksingers, to plunge all out into rock & roll, and the Beatles (along with Bob Dylan) would be hugely influential on the folk-rock explosion of 1965. The Beatles' success, too, had begun to open the U.S. market for fellow Brits like the Rolling Stones, the Animals and the  Kinks, and inspired young American groups like the Beu Breummels and Lovin Spoonful and others to mount a challenge of their own with self-penned material that owed a great debt to Lennon-McCartney".- All Music Guide Biography on the Beatles.
 
The harmony on tracks  like "Things We Said Today", "If I Fell", "And I Love Her" and "I'll Be Back" were only matched by the Beach Boys maybe and the Kinks not there yet in Rock and Roll. Plus it  did not hurt all the songs were written and played by the Beatles and even the Beach Boys had to rely on session players.


A Hard Day's Night didn't affect folk-rock that much. That was pure rock n' roll. Help and Rubber Soul influenced folk, but not A Hard Day's Night.

Also, just because they played the instruments and wrote the songs (which they didn't do on the following album) doesn't mean it's prog, folk, or whatever genre A Hard Day's Night influenced in your mind.

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Points: 2134 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2008 at 05:47
Originally posted by progrocker2244 progrocker2244 wrote:

Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

I think their prog leanings can be traced back to "A Hard Day's Night" or at least a few singles before "Revolver".


I love A Hard Day's Night as a rock n' roll album, but what on that was progressive at all?

It's a great album, but isn't progressive one bit.
 
The Beatles had left rock'n'roll by the time of AHDN and AHDN was their (and possible THE) first true pop album (and the best ever IMO). They returned to R'n'R on the ep "LOng Tall Sally" which really is kind of their farewell to R'n'R.
 
The unusual  (for the time) guitar intro and outro, the use of 12-string and the classical piano solo, suggest AHDN should be regarded perhaps as the first true proto-prog song .
 
The Beatles cracked open the US market with AHDN allowing other european acts to get attention in the US and thus US and european music began mixing in a big scale, The Byrds example being one of many.
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Points: 20030 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2008 at 13:46
Originally posted by progrocker2244 progrocker2244 wrote:

Originally posted by Chelsea Chelsea wrote:

Originally posted by progrocker2244 progrocker2244 wrote:

Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

I think their prog leanings can be traced back to "A Hard Day's Night" or at least a few singles before "Revolver".


I love A Hard Day's Night as a rock n' roll album, but what on that was progressive at all?

It's a great album, but isn't progressive one bit.
 
 It's not  Progressive rock but it sure was influential on other genres that would influence Progressive Rock.
 
 "George Harrison resonant 12-string electric guitar leads were hugely influential; the movie helped persuade the Byrds, then folksingers, to plunge all out into rock & roll, and the Beatles (along with Bob Dylan) would be hugely influential on the folk-rock explosion of 1965. The Beatles' success, too, had begun to open the U.S. market for fellow Brits like the Rolling Stones, the Animals and the  Kinks, and inspired young American groups like the Beu Breummels and Lovin Spoonful and others to mount a challenge of their own with self-penned material that owed a great debt to Lennon-McCartney".- All Music Guide Biography on the Beatles.
 
The harmony on tracks  like "Things We Said Today", "If I Fell", "And I Love Her" and "I'll Be Back" were only matched by the Beach Boys maybe and the Kinks not there yet in Rock and Roll. Plus it  did not hurt all the songs were written and played by the Beatles and even the Beach Boys had to rely on session players.


A Hard Day's Night didn't affect folk-rock that much. That was pure rock n' roll. Help and Rubber Soul influenced folk, but not A Hard Day's Night.

Also, just because they played the instruments and wrote the songs (which they didn't do on the following album) doesn't mean it's prog, folk, or whatever genre A Hard Day's Night influenced in your mind.




Surely you mean "which they didn't do on some of the following album"?
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Points: 7826 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2008 at 14:11
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by progrocker2244 progrocker2244 wrote:

Originally posted by Chelsea Chelsea wrote:

Originally posted by progrocker2244 progrocker2244 wrote:

Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

I think their prog leanings can be traced back to "A Hard Day's Night" or at least a few singles before "Revolver".


I love A Hard Day's Night as a rock n' roll album, but what on that was progressive at all?

It's a great album, but isn't progressive one bit.
 
 It's not  Progressive rock but it sure was influential on other genres that would influence Progressive Rock.
 
 "George Harrison resonant 12-string electric guitar leads were hugely influential; the movie helped persuade the Byrds, then folksingers, to plunge all out into rock & roll, and the Beatles (along with Bob Dylan) would be hugely influential on the folk-rock explosion of 1965. The Beatles' success, too, had begun to open the U.S. market for fellow Brits like the Rolling Stones, the Animals and the  Kinks, and inspired young American groups like the Beu Breummels and Lovin Spoonful and others to mount a challenge of their own with self-penned material that owed a great debt to Lennon-McCartney".- All Music Guide Biography on the Beatles.
 
The harmony on tracks  like "Things We Said Today", "If I Fell", "And I Love Her" and "I'll Be Back" were only matched by the Beach Boys maybe and the Kinks not there yet in Rock and Roll. Plus it  did not hurt all the songs were written and played by the Beatles and even the Beach Boys had to rely on session players.


A Hard Day's Night didn't affect folk-rock that much. That was pure rock n' roll. Help and Rubber Soul influenced folk, but not A Hard Day's Night.

Also, just because they played the instruments and wrote the songs (which they didn't do on the following album) doesn't mean it's prog, folk, or whatever genre A Hard Day's Night influenced in your mind.




Surely you mean "which they didn't do on some of the following album"?


I said album, not albums.

On Beatles for Sale they didn't write all of the songs.

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Points: 20030 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2008 at 14:27
I know but you said "they played the instruments and wrote the songs (which they didn't do on the following album)" which suggests they didn't write any of the songs on Beatles For Sale. There were more covers than normal but that was probably due to the pressures of touring, which meant they didn't have time to write as much as normal.
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Points: 2134 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2008 at 14:35
Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

Originally posted by progrocker2244 progrocker2244 wrote:

Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

I think their prog leanings can be traced back to "A Hard Day's Night" or at least a few singles before "Revolver".


I love A Hard Day's Night as a rock n' roll album, but what on that was progressive at all?

It's a great album, but isn't progressive one bit.
 
The Beatles had left rock'n'roll by the time of AHDN and AHDN was their (and possible THE) first true pop album (and the best ever IMO). They returned to R'n'R on the ep "LOng Tall Sally" which really is kind of their farewell to R'n'R.
 
 
Correction: "Long Tall Sally " was released before AHDN and recorded during the AHDN sessions.


Edited by earlyprog - December 21 2008 at 14:37
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Points: 7826 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2008 at 16:53
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

I know but you said "they played the instruments and wrote the songs (which they didn't do on the following album)" which suggests they didn't write any of the songs on Beatles For Sale. There were more covers than normal but that was probably due to the pressures of touring, which meant they didn't have time to write as much as normal.


Think about it their early albums were only 30 mins, and they didn't have time to write the songs??

DT, Genesis, Yes, and ELP all tour and they manage to write their own albums (and their albums for the most part were all longer albums).

I love The Beatles too, but that's kind of a bias and lame excuse. Did the same thing happen on Meet The Beatles, Please Please Me, and Help in your mind too?

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Points: 530 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2008 at 17:45
Meet the Beatles was not an album conceived by the band itself, as far as I know.
I wouldn't compare them to Genesis or Yes cos they stuff they wrote was much more complex, but The Beatles recorded A hard day's night, the Long tal sally EP, I feel fine/She's a woman single, and Beatles for sale all in 1964, in spite of the constant touring, so I would say it was a very productive year. Then Help! was released a few months after Beatles for sale in 1965, and it only had two covers, although they could have put I'm down, or even If you've got trouble or That means a lot, who knows why they didn't.

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Points: 2134 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2008 at 04:21
Originally posted by progrocker2244 progrocker2244 wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

I know but you said "they played the instruments and wrote the songs (which they didn't do on the following album)" which suggests they didn't write any of the songs on Beatles For Sale. There were more covers than normal but that was probably due to the pressures of touring, which meant they didn't have time to write as much as normal.


Think about it their early albums were only 30 mins, and they didn't have time to write the songs??

DT, Genesis, Yes, and ELP all tour and they manage to write their own albums (and their albums for the most part were all longer albums).

I love The Beatles too, but that's kind of a bias and lame excuse. Did the same thing happen on Meet The Beatles, Please Please Me, and Help in your mind too?
 
If the Beatles had extended their own songs just a few more minutes from 2,5 min to 4,5 min you wouldn't have a problem? Some of the other bands you mention could easily benefit from shortening some of their songs and still be able to contain them on a single disc.
 
In those days the songs were short and part of the reason why the Beatles wrote so many. Also, a self-penned A Hard Day's Night was extremely rare back then (possibly the first time a group was allowed to do that). This was part of the progression they contributed.
 
The Beatles were consciouslynot repeating themselves and wanted to release quality rather than quantity. This is why they were possibly the first album-oriented group (essential part of prog rock); they didn't include their singles on their albums which was the norm at the time (and still is).
 
One of the all time greatest prog bands, Gente Giant, released albums with an average duration of approx. 34 minutes because their material was so concise and dense. They were the Beatles of prog!


Edited by earlyprog - December 22 2008 at 04:35
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Points: 20030 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2008 at 09:11
Originally posted by progrocker2244 progrocker2244 wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

I know but you said "they played the instruments and wrote the songs (which they didn't do on the following album)" which suggests they didn't write any of the songs on Beatles For Sale. There were more covers than normal but that was probably due to the pressures of touring, which meant they didn't have time to write as much as normal.


Think about it their early albums were only 30 mins, and they didn't have time to write the songs??

DT, Genesis, Yes, and ELP all tour and they manage to write their own albums (and their albums for the most part were all longer albums).

I love The Beatles too, but that's kind of a bias and lame excuse. Did the same thing happen on Meet The Beatles, Please Please Me, and Help in your mind too?
I wasn't presenting it as any kind of excuse. I was just pointing out that you seem to be suggesting something that wasn't true. It doesn't matter.
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Points: 62 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2008 at 09:41
Originally posted by progrocker2244 progrocker2244 wrote:

Originally posted by Chelsea Chelsea wrote:

Originally posted by progrocker2244 progrocker2244 wrote:

Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

I think their prog leanings can be traced back to "A Hard Day's Night" or at least a few singles before "Revolver".


I love A Hard Day's Night as a rock n' roll album, but what on that was progressive at all?

It's a great album, but isn't progressive one bit.
 
 It's not  Progressive rock but it sure was influential on other genres that would influence Progressive Rock.
 
 "George Harrison resonant 12-string electric guitar leads were hugely influential; the movie helped persuade the Byrds, then folksingers, to plunge all out into rock & roll, and the Beatles (along with Bob Dylan) would be hugely influential on the folk-rock explosion of 1965. The Beatles' success, too, had begun to open the U.S. market for fellow Brits like the Rolling Stones, the Animals and the  Kinks, and inspired young American groups like the Beu Breummels and Lovin Spoonful and others to mount a challenge of their own with self-penned material that owed a great debt to Lennon-McCartney".- All Music Guide Biography on the Beatles.
 
The harmony on tracks  like "Things We Said Today", "If I Fell", "And I Love Her" and "I'll Be Back" were only matched by the Beach Boys maybe and the Kinks not there yet in Rock and Roll. Plus it  did not hurt all the songs were written and played by the Beatles and even the Beach Boys had to rely on session players.


A Hard Day's Night didn't affect folk-rock that much. That was pure rock n' roll. Help and Rubber Soul influenced folk, but not A Hard Day's Night.

Also, just because they played the instruments and wrote the songs (which they didn't do on the following album) doesn't mean it's prog, folk, or whatever genre A Hard Day's Night influenced in your mind.



 
Apparently the Beatles were a big influence on the start of folk-rock also LOL
 
 Richie Unterberger Folk Rock Discography 

The Beatles, Meet the Beatles (1964, Capitol). Not a folk-rock album, but the one record that more than any other awakened young American folk musicians to the possibilities of electric rock music. The Meet the Beatles LP, as opposed to With the Beatles (their second British LP, which has much of the same material and is the one that was reissued on CD), is what's necessary to re-create the impact, as it's almost wholly devoted to original songs, including two great ones ("I Want to Hold Your Hand" and "I Saw Her Standing There") that don't appear on With the Beatles.

The Beatles, A Hard Day's Night (1964, Capitol). Songs from and recorded right after the making of the movie of the same name, which was about as influential on early folk-rock musicians as the Meet the Beatles album was. You can hear some folky influences creeping into their work, too, on songs like "Things We Said Today" and "I'll Be Back."

The Beatles, Beatles for Sale (1964, Capitol). More music that, if only unconsciously, continued to help bring folk and rock closer together, explicitly so on "I'm a Loser" and "I'll Follow the Sun."

The Beatles, Help! (1965, Capitol). A fine album on any terms, as all Beatles albums are. Within the context of folk-rock, it's notable for several songs that show a definite folk-rock influence, like "You've Got to Hide Your Away" and "I've Just Seen a Face," as well as the appearance (not influenced by the Byrds) of a prototypical ringing 12-string electric guitar riff in "Ticket to Ride."

The Beatles, Rubber Soul (1965, Capitol). The Beatles' most strongly folk-rock-influenced album, from Lennon-McCartney songs like "Norwegian Wood" and "I'm Looking Through You" to George Harrison's Byrds homage "If I Needed Someone."

Also anyone listen the  Beatles cover version of "Words of Love" sounds like the Byrds jangle style that you hear in 1965.
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