Beatles-Revolver
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Topic: Beatles-Revolver
Posted By: J-Man
Subject: Beatles-Revolver
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 10:34
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I believe that Revolver was the first Betales album with complexity and diversity. Listen to the bass line in Taxman, the Indian instruments in Love You To and Tomorrow Never Knows, and the symphonic Eleanor Rigby. It's not prog like CTTE, but is one of the first albums (1966) to have any prog relation at all in my mind. ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: febus
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 10:46
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I don't think the inclusion of Indian Instruments means it's prog, neither is the presence of a violin quartet...This is eclectic for sure, but prog, no way.
I think the definition of prog is stretched to the max lately. To have a song startIng with a nice acoustic guitar arpeggio doesn't mean it's prog and the addition of a synth soundscape either.
Revolver is a nice Beatles album, diverse ,eclectic full of exquisite arrangements, doesn't mean it's prog imo
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Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 10:54
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febus wrote:Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 10:56
He just asking if there's a relation, not if the album is prog. I say yes, defenatly. Elinor Rigby must have been an earopener for many youngsters. Very unusual and original for its time. ELO's brilliant barock'n roll debut wouldn't exist without it, I'm sure. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: Alberto Muņoz
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 21:28
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A definitely yep, a never heard a song like Eleanor Rigby before
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Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 00:15
Of course not, we're talking about being related to prog here, though... ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 13:33
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I answered yes, but forgot Rubber Soul before that one, for me, that one marked their change in direction.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: KarmaPolice
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 19:35
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Progressive in many ways and it was not only influential on Progressive Rock but tracks like "I'm Only Sleeping", "She Said She Said and "Tomorrow Never Knows" are influential tracks for Indie Rock.
"She Said She Said", "Good Day Sunshine" changes meters. "Love You To" has sitar, tabla with guitar with extended modal sitar solo by Harrison and really no one was doing this in Rock Music.
"Tomorrow Never Knows" includes electronic music, repeated syncopated odd drum beat, musique concrete effects, processed vocals and mixed in real time. I would say that was progressive for rock music. "Eleanor Rigby" defies a genre name really with vocals/string combination only.
I give credit the Beatles Psychedelic sound was innovative with its use of backward tape. Indian Instruments, electronic music as started on "Tomorrow Never Knows" and furthered with "Strawberry Fields Forever.
There are a number of songs that sound unlike anything in Pop or Rock Music at this time. Other tracks are the pre-Allman Brothers twin guitar attack of "And Your Bird Can Sing" and the classically influenced "For No One" |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: October 30 2008 at 17:16
| It's difficult to say, since Rubber Soul had been getting to it, though surely in Revolver it was clearer and better. And then Sgt. Pepper's would equal it or for some, being better. |
Posted By: pelican
Date Posted: October 30 2008 at 23:24
| My husband is a pretty big Beatles fan (me - not so much, but I respect them). However, he was not too familiar with their catalogue. So, I bought "Revolver" for him and it is his favorite album. Eleanor Rigby, Happiness is a Warm Gun, Strawberry Fields, Day in the Life, Taxman, Mr. Kite, Blackbird and Rocky Raccoon are his favorite songs. |
Posted By: Sunny In Jeddah
Date Posted: November 18 2008 at 21:19
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Great album as well ------------- 
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 18 2008 at 22:35
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certainly Revolver is astounding, possibly the finest rock album ever made, at least in its time ..however in terms of the first glimpses of their move away form standard form to a progressive approach, I give it to Yesterday and Today ; 'We Can Work it Out' and 'Yesterday' of particular significance |
Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 09:01
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Being old enough to relate that I was in my mid teens when it hit the shelves, it fairly well blew everyone's minds who thought they knew what the Beatles were about. Rubber Soul had hints that a revolution was about but the sounds that came out of Revolver were unlike any that had come before. It really changed everything about modern music and progressive seeds were definitely sown. ------------- "Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 10:42
| Yes, definitely. If you consider the year it was created in and compare it to other music at the time it was miles ahead, and therfore progressive, not to mention the amount of artists that were influenced by it. |
Posted By: jimidom
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 10:55
The first state Butcher cover of Yesterday and Today was a bit proggy in a surrealist sort of way. Musically, I think Revolver marked the shift more than Y&T thanks to "Eleanor Rigby", "Love You To", and "Tomorrow Never Knows". ------------- "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - HST |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 18:01
Revolver was a progressive album no doubt, Y&T merely a North American collection, but released the summer of '66, it makes the material significant in terms of impact in the U.S. and Canada as a forst glimpse of their potential to go beyond the pop form |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 20:33
| Yesterday and Today was not a Beatle-conceived album; it was pure Capitol Records product. Most of the songs had already been released as singles, and while it contained some evolutionary songs (Yesterday for example) I don't recall it having the impact that Revolver would have. |
Posted By: Abrawang
Date Posted: December 11 2008 at 23:01
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If only for "Tomorrow Never Knows". Overall a disjointed, uneven album but with enough flashes of the Beatles genius that's it's a success. Sgt. Pepper's seemed to master the styles mix a lot better and the songs, overall, were better. How prog would it have sounded without TNK? ------------- Casting doubt on all I have to say... |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: December 18 2008 at 18:19
Sure, it marked their change in direction, but really isn't proggy much at all. It's different than Please Please Me, but still really isn't proggy like Revolver is. It's much more like folk-rock. -------------
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Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: December 18 2008 at 19:39
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Posted By: Chelsea
Date Posted: December 19 2008 at 13:21
Has anyone heard of the Beatles Psychedelic style? I argue that no one was doing these things in 1966 in relation to rock music but specifically to their style of Psychedelic Pop/Rock. Love You To- is considered the first pop song to emulate non-western form in this case Indian Music in structure and instrumentation. The track uses traditional Indian instruments tabla, sitar and tamboura with a western pop song- The Dawn Of Indian Music In The West author Peter Lavezzoli I'm Only Sleeping- has backward guitar leads with with a twin backward guitar solo "Eleanor Rigby" influenced by classical music with just a string octet and vocals arrangement "Tomorrow Never Knows" Musically, it is based on Indian drones, with a strongly syncopated repetitive drum-beat, and is considered to be among the earliest precursors of electronica. . Much of the backing track consists of a series of prepared tape loops, stemming from Lennon's and McCartney's interest in and experiments with magnetic tape and musique concrete techniques at that time. Backward guitar solos, vocals through Leslie speakers, and drum loops. "She Said She Said" has changing time signatures. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 19 2008 at 14:45
I see, weird version of the album that has songs that were from the future and not on the actual Revolver album.  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: December 19 2008 at 15:09
 I think that all came out the wrong way. At least 2 of them are on Revolver! |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: December 20 2008 at 12:16
| I think their prog leanings can be traced back to "A Hard Day's Night" or at least a few singles before "Revolver". |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: December 20 2008 at 12:39
I love A Hard Day's Night as a rock n' roll album, but what on that was progressive at all? It's a great album, but isn't progressive one bit. -------------
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Posted By: Chelsea
Date Posted: December 20 2008 at 13:37
It's not Progressive rock but it sure was influential on other genres that would influence Progressive Rock.
"George Harrison resonant 12-string electric guitar leads were hugely influential; the movie helped persuade the Byrds, then folksingers, to plunge all out into rock & roll, and the Beatles (along with Bob Dylan) would be hugely influential on the folk-rock explosion of 1965. The Beatles' success, too, had begun to open the U.S. market for fellow Brits like the Rolling Stones, the Animals and the Kinks, and inspired young American groups like the Beu Breummels and Lovin Spoonful and others to mount a challenge of their own with self-penned material that owed a great debt to Lennon-McCartney".- All Music Guide Biography on the Beatles.
The harmony on tracks like "Things We Said Today", "If I Fell", "And I Love Her" and "I'll Be Back" were only matched by the Beach Boys maybe and the Kinks not there yet in Rock and Roll. Plus it did not hurt all the songs were written and played by the Beatles and even the Beach Boys had to rely on session players.
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Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: December 20 2008 at 14:55
A Hard Day's Night didn't affect folk-rock that much. That was pure rock n' roll. Help and Rubber Soul influenced folk, but not A Hard Day's Night. Also, just because they played the instruments and wrote the songs (which they didn't do on the following album) doesn't mean it's prog, folk, or whatever genre A Hard Day's Night influenced in your mind. -------------
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Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: December 21 2008 at 05:47
The Beatles had left rock'n'roll by the time of AHDN and AHDN was their (and possible THE) first true pop album (and the best ever IMO). They returned to R'n'R on the ep "LOng Tall Sally" which really is kind of their farewell to R'n'R.
The unusual (for the time) guitar intro and outro, the use of 12-string and the classical piano solo, suggest AHDN should be regarded perhaps as the first true proto-prog http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=33941&KW=night&PID=2364659#">song
 The Beatles cracked open the US market with AHDN allowing other european acts to get attention in the US and thus US and european music began mixing in a big scale, The Byrds example being one of many. |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: December 21 2008 at 13:46
Surely you mean "which they didn't do on some of the following album"? |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: December 21 2008 at 14:11
I said album, not albums. On Beatles for Sale they didn't write all of the songs. -------------
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: December 21 2008 at 14:27
| I know but you said "they played the instruments and wrote the songs (which they didn't do on the following album)" which suggests they didn't write any of the songs on Beatles For Sale. There were more covers than normal but that was probably due to the pressures of touring, which meant they didn't have time to write as much as normal. |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: December 21 2008 at 14:35
Correction: "Long Tall Sally " was released before AHDN and recorded during the AHDN sessions.
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Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: December 21 2008 at 16:53
Think about it their early albums were only 30 mins, and they didn't have time to write the songs?? DT, Genesis, Yes, and ELP all tour and they manage to write their own albums (and their albums for the most part were all longer albums). I love The Beatles too, but that's kind of a bias and lame excuse. Did the same thing happen on Meet The Beatles, Please Please Me, and Help in your mind too? -------------
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Posted By: SgtPepper67
Date Posted: December 21 2008 at 17:45
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Meet the Beatles was not an album conceived by the band itself, as far as I know. I wouldn't compare them to Genesis or Yes cos they stuff they wrote was much more complex, but The Beatles recorded A hard day's night, the Long tal sally EP, I feel fine/She's a woman single, and Beatles for sale all in 1964, in spite of the constant touring, so I would say it was a very productive year. Then Help! was released a few months after Beatles for sale in 1965, and it only had two covers, although they could have put I'm down, or even If you've got trouble or That means a lot, who knows why they didn't. ------------- 
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Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: December 22 2008 at 04:21
If the Beatles had extended their own songs just a few more minutes from 2,5 min to 4,5 min you wouldn't have a problem? Some of the other bands you mention could easily benefit from shortening some of their songs and still be able to contain them on a single disc.
In those days the songs were short and part of the reason why the Beatles wrote so many. Also, a self-penned A Hard Day's Night was extremely rare back then (possibly the first time a group was allowed to do that). This was part of the progression they contributed.
The Beatles were consciouslynot repeating themselves and wanted to release quality rather than quantity. This is why they were possibly the first album-oriented group (essential part of prog rock); they didn't include their singles on their albums which was the norm at the time (and still is).
One of the all time greatest prog bands, Gente Giant, released albums with an average duration of approx. 34 minutes because their material was so concise and dense. They were the Beatles of prog!
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: December 22 2008 at 09:11
I wasn't presenting it as any kind of excuse. I was just pointing out that you seem to be suggesting something that wasn't true. It doesn't matter.
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Posted By: ModernRocker79
Date Posted: December 22 2008 at 09:41
Apparently the Beatles were a big influence on the start of folk-rock also
 Richie Unterberger Folk Rock Discography
The Beatles, Meet the Beatles (1964, Capitol). Not a folk-rock album, but the one record that more than any other awakened young American folk musicians to the possibilities of electric rock music. The Meet the Beatles LP, as opposed to With the Beatles (their second British LP, which has much of the same material and is the one that was reissued on CD), is what's necessary to re-create the impact, as it's almost wholly devoted to original songs, including two great ones ("I Want to Hold Your Hand" and "I Saw Her Standing There") that don't appear on With the Beatles. The Beatles, A Hard Day's Night (1964, Capitol). Songs from and recorded right after the making of the movie of the same name, which was about as influential on early folk-rock musicians as the Meet the Beatles album was. You can hear some folky influences creeping into their work, too, on songs like "Things We Said Today" and "I'll Be Back." The Beatles, Beatles for Sale (1964, Capitol). More music that, if only unconsciously, continued to help bring folk and rock closer together, explicitly so on "I'm a Loser" and "I'll Follow the Sun." The Beatles, Help! (1965, Capitol). A fine album on any terms, as all Beatles albums are. Within the context of folk-rock, it's notable for several songs that show a definite folk-rock influence, like "You've Got to Hide Your Away" and "I've Just Seen a Face," as well as the appearance (not influenced by the Byrds) of a prototypical ringing 12-string electric guitar riff in "Ticket to Ride." The Beatles, Rubber Soul (1965, Capitol). The Beatles' most strongly folk-rock-influenced album, from Lennon-McCartney songs like "Norwegian Wood" and "I'm Looking Through You" to George Harrison's Byrds homage "If I Needed Someone." Also anyone listen the Beatles cover version of "Words of Love" sounds like the Byrds jangle style that you hear in 1965. |