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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2008 at 22:17
Originally posted by Passionist Passionist wrote:

It would be pretty kinky if you keep say, the guitar riff as you said and the drums at regular 7/8. At least that'd give all us fanatics trouble in calculating it. Especially if you make it change between the double and the triple calculating five altogether. Or make the melody go double-triple-double-triple and the beat/drums go triple double-triple-double. And then get a new falutist and tell them to improvise a coherent solo As for your suggestions, I think I've heard The Flower Kings do this at least once or twice... But at the moment I can't say in which song, I'd have to go through all the albums here just calculating. But they do have these too.

ahhh.... that is a unique idea. with me and my brothers band (Ryan(me-guitar, piano,and vocals), Nigel(my brother-bass guitar,and drums)) we have a heavy metal sounding guitar riff that is in 11/8 while the drums are emphasizing the triple eighth notes so the result is a kinky hemiola derived 11 time signature. But i never thought of the reverse- having the drums play 11/8 while the guitars play in a time signature such that the tempo is derived from the triplet location of the 11/8 drum beat. Definitely will experiment with that. becuz that is an experiment... some guy up top was trying to tell me what an experiment is. haha! Im a mathematics and biomedical engineer major, i think i know what an experiment is! anyhoo- back to you, thank you for your input and it was definitely a great idea!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2008 at 22:19

My drumline was talking about this. A buddy and I were saying that the quints should play something in 7/8, the bass drummers in 3/4, and the snare in 4/4. We found out that by finding the lowest common multiple, that's where they would line up. So you would multiply 7, 4, and 3 and get 84. Then you'd divide by the time signature you're playing in to find out how many times you would have to play that until everything lined up again.

So the 7/8 guy would play 12 measures, the 4/4 guy would play 21 measures, and the 3/4 guy would play 28 measures.

Now the hard part is getting us to play that. The people in my drumline hated odd times last year, and this year the bass drummers can hardly play 16th notes at a regular tempo type cadence. (sigh)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2008 at 22:29
I know what your talking about. Thats more of predicting the result of a poly rhythm. like if drums were 7/8, guitar was 5/8, and bass was 6/8 they would not repeat themselves until 7*6*5=210 eighth note later which would be 30 measures of 7/8, 35 measures of 6/8, and 42 measures of 5/8. That isnt quite the same thing here. This is staying in the same timesignature but switching the beat emphasis from every duplet to every triplet. cool thought though. Thank you!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2008 at 14:22
I think exactly what you might be thinking of happens in Dream Theater's "The Mirror", where in  a triplet pattern of triplet eigth notes becomes the normal eigth note (half a quarter, not a third).

I used a similar method in a piece I composed which which is as follows (using your notation here):

(1)23 (1)23 (1)23 (1)23 | (1)23 (1)23 (1)23 (1)23 | (1)23 1(2)3 12(3) 123 | (1)23 1(2)3 12(3) 123 | 

In the second pair of measures, the accent moves from every three to every four, so in the two measures there, it can sound like 2 measures of 3/4 (or 3 of 2/4) with a new eigth note base.

I've also done something similar with 7/8 where I would take the triplet eigths and phrase them in 7s:

(1)23 (1)23 1(2)3 1(2)3 12(3) 12(3) 123 | (1)23 (1)23 1(2)3 1(2)3 12(3) 12(3) 123 |

It's easier to hear using a melody, which is what I did in a keyboard lead in that pattern. It really disguises the time signature and makes you have to listen carefully!

-Marc.


I know what I like and I like what I know. I will choose a path that's clear, I will choose free will. If I die tomorrow, I`d be alright because I believe that after we`re gone, the spirit carries on.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2008 at 14:28
wow! fantastic! ya, that is exactlt it! I especially love the idea with the seven phrasing! I havnt got that far yet but i was considering trying the same thing with quints. you're the first one to get it exact, and ill definitely listen through mirrors again to try and find it, thank you!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2008 at 16:07
Thanks! Glad I could help... I think the proper term for this is Metric Modulation. As any good musician/music-major would know, modulation in the harmonic sense involves moving from one key to another, usually around a tonal center (such as changing from the key of A, to it's dominant, the key of E through the use of any chords in A that share tones/pitches with chords in E). The key signature might not change, but the chord progression itself reveals the key through cadences.

In rhythm, modulation occurs when the note that gets the beat is changed, whether or not the time signature is the same. LIke with harmonic modulation, the time signature can still be the same, but the accented pulse will be different, forcing the listener to accept the new rhythm pattern, but there might still be underlying patterns in the old time signature.

-Marc.
I know what I like and I like what I know. I will choose a path that's clear, I will choose free will. If I die tomorrow, I`d be alright because I believe that after we`re gone, the spirit carries on.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2008 at 20:12
I do a snare exercise like this. I was trying to think of a way of changing the tempo of a song with having cues and have it all mathematical. It starts with straight quarter notes in 4/4, then it goes into triplet eighth notes, so the beat is still based on the quarter notes, then I think of it as changing to 12/8 at a different tempo to match the triplets with the eighth notes , and then changing into 8/8 of that same tempo.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                            12/8 (different tempo)
(1)  (2)  (3)  (4)  |  (1)  (2)  (3)  (4)  |  (1)23 (2)23 (3)23 (4)23  |  (1) 2 3 (4) 5 6 (7) 8 9 (10) 11 12 | 

8/8
(1) 2 (3) 4 (5) 6 (7) 8 | (1) 2 (3) 4 (5) 6 (7) 8 |

I found out that it just turns out as a double time feel. But still a fun warm up cause it keeps getting faster if you repeat the process. Play the bass drum where the ( ) are.
Let the progsters find you and
beat you in 7/8 time!
-Jordan Rudess

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