Paganism / Prog Connection ?

Beautiful words, thank you, I was about to break out my T.S Eliot, but the lateness of the evening leaves me in a reticent state.You're correct with you're left brain observations of this site. More facts than feelings. Isn't that what music is about?

Keep your metaphysics warm

OK, Eliot got in there

I think it's a way of personal development that can touch many different religions, cultures and philosophies...

IMO the concept is to know ourselves using every way possible, so oriental religions, metaphysics, mysticism are all in the same way to find an answer...

..of course an eclectic person that leads his interests in so many different ways for a strictly personal development could be considered "pagan" in a certain way...

..do you agree?

Witchwoodhermit wrote: Strickly speaking anybody who isn't Christian is pagan. According to the church that rules. To be pagan is to have your own belief, whether structured or not. It is a personal value, on life and beyond. I've gone through many changes in philosophy over the years, one thing that is certain, we all believe in some creative force. Be it destructive or not, the need for "a God" is omni present to our development as a human race. All creations are reflections of their creators.

Not exact, it depeds in the era (For Medieval Church any non Catholic was Pagan, but this has changed) and the country, for the Romans (Politeists) the Germanic cultures were Pagans because they didn't shared their Religion.

For the Jewish, the term gentile is almost an equivalent or Pagan, those who don't share their Religion. The Moslems claim that anybody who doesn't believe in the Coran is a Pagan.

I don't know too much about most Christian Religions (There are so many and the differences between them are so subtle in most cases), but at least Catholic Church proclaim that any church who believe in any God deserve respect and veneration, the term Pagan in our contextis more related to different forms of Stanism and non traditional cults.

The Dalai Lama, Ghandi,  a lot of Moslem Priests, Jewish Religious leaders, etc have been recieved in the Vatican with great respect, so your first phrase is not accurate.

Iván

Edited by ivan_2068

Witchwoodhermit wrote: Well, I'm not splitting hairs on the churchs definition of Pagan. However, I need to say that the one big mistake to make, when talking about Paganism is too demonize it. Its not about Satanism (as I believe you were trying to say?) or cults. Pagan religions are primarilly earth based and polythesist. A more "primal" view of the world about us and less dogmatic. The freedom to dance around the circle stones.

Well,I know  it's a mistake, even when it's the most common perception of Paganism today, but in no way "anybody who isn't Christian is pagan", except for some fundamentalists.

Iván

 

Edited by ivan_2068

Witchwoodhermit wrote: Ivan, I think you misunderstood my statement. I was making a generalization about the Christian churchs attitude towards non-Christians. I,m glad that the church-Catholic in particular- have broadened their attitudes towards other faiths. Lets not fight over this my friend.

Will never fight about an issue as this, I am also aware of this tendency of SOME Fundamentalist groups, but not only Christians, the problem has spread all over the worls, everybody seems to believe their faith is the only truth and that the rest of Religions are just a  Pagans.

Iván

Edited by ivan_2068

ivan_2068 wrote: Witchwoodhermit wrote: Ivan, I think you misunderstood my statement. I was making a generalization about the Christian churchs attitude towards non-Christians. I,m glad that the church-Catholic in particular- have broadened their attitudes towards other faiths. Lets not fight over this my friend. Will never fight about an issue as this, I am also aware of this tendency of SOME Fundamentalist groups, but not only Christians, the problem has spread all over the worls, everybody seems to believe their faith is the only truth and that the rest of Religions are just a  Pagans. Iván

But dedicating yourself to a philosophy generaly means that you're fairly certain that it's "the sh*t", and that others are not quite as much "the sh*t". Many here often write as though the only true form of music is prog(Whatever the Hell that is), which is a paralell to faith, in that both faith and music base themselves on intuition rather than some pseudo-objective sh*t.

Zweck wrote: But dedicating yourself to a philosophy generaly means that you're fairly certain that it's "the sh*t", and that others are not quite as much "the sh*t". Many here often write as though the only true form of music is prog(Whatever the Hell that is), which is a paralell to faith, in that both faith and music base themselves on intuition rather than some pseudo-objective sh*t.

I hoinestly doubt many people here believe Prog' is the only true form of music, most of us listen, like and talk about different genres of music..

Does some people here believe  Prog  is the best musical expression for our taste?

Probably yes, we are here stealing time from our work, studies  and families because we love Progressive Rock, so what's the problem about this?

Iván

dojonane wrote: anthropomorphic qualities for natural forces,

 I bet there is quite a bit of that.
  I understand more fully now what you were asking about. I think it has much to do with the emotional response pure music invokes in us. I can't quantify this in any way. Let's suffice it to say (as we all already know) that different musical passages give us different emotions AND that in general a certain music will cause a similar emotion in most people of similar musical background. I'm mainly meaning eastern background vs western background. That being clarified I can now say that the music involved in most prog just lends itself to deeper complex sojourns into existential territories. Those are the kinds of feelings the music invokes so obviously the themes in art/lyrics surrounding the music will gravitate that way. 
 If for whatever reason the music in prog that we are drawn to made black dark murderous feelings in us then the art and lyrics of prog would show it. Having paganistic themes in prog, IMHO, are no more mysterious or grand than rock songs/art being about sex,drugs,&rocknroll. No more mysterious than death metal being infused with themes of...uh...death. It's just natural. It fits.


 It's interesting to me think about what came first, the theme or the music. Looking back at the begginings of prog proper I'd have to say the music came first. I can't think of any overt pagan earmarks in the earliest days. But as it grew the natural feelings gained from listening to prog type music came along and pagan themes in the genre strengthened. Im just brainstorming here.. havent thought much about it.


 Wanted to add something about religions. I really only see the trio of muslim/judism/christianity as being intolerant. Either aggressive like muslim and christain or cloistered like judism.The other major religions of the world are very tolerent. Its one of the main tenants of Buhdism I hear that you respect the beliefs of others. So I can't aggree that when you pick a philiosophy you automatically have disdain for others who pick otherwise. Thats just the way the trio works things.

Drew wrote:

Does the art cover designer has an obsession with Stargate, or does Pagan Mind makes the music for the show? Because:

Seems obvious.

Iván

Edited by ivan_2068

ivan_2068 wrote: Zweck wrote: But dedicating yourself to a philosophy generaly means that you're fairly certain that it's "the sh*t", and that others are not quite as much "the sh*t". Many here often write as though the only true form of music is prog(Whatever the Hell that is), which is a paralell to faith, in that both faith and music base themselves on intuition rather than some pseudo-objective sh*t. I hoinestly doubt many people here believe Prog' is the only true form of music, most of us listen, like and talk about different genres of music.. Does some people here believe  Prog  is the best musical expression for our taste? Probably yes, we are here stealing time from our work, studies  and families because we love Progressive Rock, so what's the problem about this? Iván

Somehow I don't feel that the one who questioned the artistic qualities of Madvillian on grounds of his use of samples has so much to say. And before you go "well that was one incident, I still listen to other stuff than prog, yaddayaddayadda" you must know this: I generalized. Though it often dilutes the expression slightly it's very functional for getting a point across, without going through all the degrees of something, which would make most people abstain from reading the post.