Prog Metal-Like It or Don’t Like It?

rockandrail wrote: I don't like metal. At all! Though I like Hard Rock.

Where do you draw the line between hard rock and metal?

MikeEnRegalia wrote: I think it's a good thing that the poll doesn't have a "I'm being indecisive" option ... if you like some Prog Metal bands, you like Prog Metal. Only if you're sure that you don't like a single Prog Metal band, you should choose the other option. To me, liking a particular band does not mean that I like the entire genre, neither does disliking a band mean that I dislike that band's genre. Hence the need for at least one mid range option - otherwise it comes out lop-sided, as I'm sure that few people dislike Prog Metal as a genre. BTW: You have been very silent about my Prog Metal categorization project ... any thoughts? I haven't looked, to be honest - I assumed that it was about more sub-categorisation, which is not something I like to dwell on. I prefer to think "Do I think it's prog or not, and if so, why so". I could care a great deal more about whether it fits into a subgenre that's badly defined from the word go - even the super-genre Prog Rock is only hazily defined by its advocates. Progressive Metal should be a) Progressive and b) Metal. Defining those should be the priority over subclassification, IMO. But I'll take a quick look in case my assumptions are unfounded...

MikeEnRegalia and Progtologist:

As I understand it, you two (if there are others, this includes you to) are working on the organization of prog-metal. I agree with this. I think one of the propositions Mike made in the original thread in the Prog Music Lounge, to make "Prog Metal" a seperate entitiy from "Prog Rock" yet still include it on this site, is a great idea. Even if that is not what you plan on specifically doing, I support your project fully.

Carry on.

This time I agree with you Maiden. Hard rock should better be called hard blues because it's where it finds its roots.

What about Black Sabbath? I adore all their early records (until sabotage). Metal or Hard Rock?

Early Heavy Metal and Hard Rock were pretty much interchangeable as terms.

The music is based in the riffing structures of the late Heavy Blues bands - many of whom moved away from their blues roots to play more riff-based Hard Rock style music.

The band setup is more or less the same - lead guitar with plenty of soloing, bass, drums, and often a rhythm guitar as well as vocals. The 5-piece setup is classic for both Hard Rock and Heavy Metal.

Hard Rock tended to focus on the traditional blues themes, but elaborated them into celebratory themes of lust, life and luurve, and the music became swaggering and testosterone-laced. The rhythms became cleaner, but retained much of the swing of the original blues bands. (Think Aerosmith or AC/DC, etc.).

Heavy Metal focussed more on cult, dark or occult themes, and the music became darker - the riffs tending towards use of the tritone interval (e.g. E -> Bb). The rhythm guitar particularly used more fuzz and distortion and the rhythms became more constant, eschewing any notion of "swing" or anything that might indicate some sort of cheerfulness. (Think Blue Cheer, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Slayer, etc.).

Of course, there's always been crossovers, and bands that played some metal tracks and some hard rock tracks and it's not black and white (Think the Scorpions, Blue Oyster Cult, Saxon, etc.) - but I think that covers the basics.

My fav genre!

BaldFriede wrote: Too few choices. I would have voted for something like "it's ok, but overrated". And lately some people are trying to turn this site into a prog-metal site, which I don't approve of.

Speaking for myself,I am not trying to turn thus into a prog metal site.I am just trying to help make the prog metal section,which I think is very disorganized,a little more organized.

While I think you are a very knowledgeable and intelligent person,you are pretty biased towards music you don't like.Well,let me say it this way...you are pretty biased towards prog metal.If it's not some obscure RIO,Zeuhl,Krautrock music you basically don't want to heard about it.Bad attitude to have,you ought to be a little more open than that.

TheProgtologist wrote: BaldFriede wrote: Too few choices. I would have voted for something like "it's ok, but overrated". And lately some people are trying to turn this site into a prog-metal site, which I don't approve of. Speaking for myself,I am not trying to turn thus into a prog metal site.I am just trying to help make the prog metal section,which I think is very disorganized,a little more organized. While I think you are a very knowledgeable and intelligent person,you are pretty biased towards music you don't like.Well,let me say it this way...you are pretty biased towards prog metal.If it's not some obscure RIO,Zeuhl,Krautrock music you basically don't want to heard about it.Bad attitude to have,you ought to be a little more open than that.

Nowhere did I say I don't like prog-metal, and it is not relevant at all whether I like it or not. I'll repeat what I said in another thread:

I'll restate my opinion: The whole project was started badly. If we go re-organizing sub-genrés at all, then let's tackle the big ones first (Art Rock and Symphonic). At least the proposal should have been something like this:

I propose that we reorganize the genrés a little by subdividing the genrés further. We need volunteers for reorganising:

Art Rock
Symphonic
Krautrock
Prog-Metal
etc.

I myself volunteer for prog-metal. The way it is done now is extremely lopsided. Thius is not the prog-metal archives.

This I would have fully appreciated. But I reject the way Mike went about it. It is lopsided and nothing but a big ballyhoo about prog-metal.

Had Mike started a thread like that, he would have had my full support. But the way he went about it - pfui.

No, I am upset because this is clearly not an attempt to reorganize the site for the better (for that something like I wrote would have been the appropriate move), it is just making ballyhoo for prog-metal. And, by the way, I would have opposed it the same way, had someone started something like this for Krautrock or any other genré. If we are to re-organise the site, fine; I'm all for it. But don't start a half-baked and half-hearted attempt like this.

It is half-baked, because you concentrate on prog-metal only; I already outlined how it should have been done. What would have been wrong with a suggestion like the one I gave and volunteering for prog-metal on your side? You would still have got what you wanted, if reorganizing prog-metal was your goal, but you would have included the bigger aim of a reorganistaion of the whole site. But no, you had to make some ballyhoo about prog-metal. Once more: This is NOT because I dislike prog-metal, it is because of your lopsided approach for a reorganisation of the site. Read the proposal of mine again, as I think yours should have been; you would have had my full support then.