Prog Metal-Like It or Don’t Like It?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13683
Printed Date: January 08 2025 at 21:35 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Prog Metal-Like It or Don’t Like It?
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Subject: Prog Metal-Like It or Don’t Like It?
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 02:29
Due to all the debate over Progressive Metal in the forum lately,I created this very simple poll.
Either you like it or you don't,it doesn't get any easier than that.
Guess what I answered??
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Replies:
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 02:43
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Reverie
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 02:45
Well like anything i like some, don't like others. But i like some so yes is the ansure!
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Posted By: cobb
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 03:43
Even some of us oldies love it
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 03:57
Er... could we have a "take it or leave it" or "it depends" option?
I'm not so closed minded that I dislike an entire genre, so do not fall either side of the fence.
I think that it's generally overrated for what it is, but it deserves top marks for having a go. More focus on the composition and creativity (ie the MUSIC) rather than the execution and production (ie the techniques and technicalities) would be a good start.
That's just one reason why I'd choose A.C.T. or Fantomas over Opeth or Dream Theater any day.
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Posted By: Lindsay Lohan
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 04:01
i like some of the bands...but not the most popular ones
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 04:14
Certif1ed wrote:
Er... could we have a "take it or leave it" or "it depends" option?
I'm not so closed minded that I dislike an entire genre, so do not fall either side of the fence.
I think that it's generally overrated for what it is, but it deserves top marks for having a go. More focus on the composition and creativity (ie the MUSIC) rather than the execution and production (ie the techniques and technicalities) would be a good start.
That's just one reason why I'd choose A.C.T. or Fantomas over Opeth or Dream Theater any day.
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I think it's a good thing that the poll doesn't have a "I'm being indecisive" option ... if you like some Prog Metal bands, you like Prog Metal. Only if you're sure that you don't like a single Prog Metal band, you should choose the other option.
BTW: You have been very silent about my Prog Metal categorization project ... any thoughts?
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Pafnutij
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 04:25
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 04:35
Too few choices. I would have voted for something like "it's ok, but overrated". And lately some people are trying to turn this site into a prog-metal site, which I don't approve of.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Posted By: mono
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 04:43
I would definitely say yes. I was into metal before i was into prog, and the combination of both is something I really appreciate.
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Posted By: Kohllapse
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 04:50
BaldFriede wrote:
Too few choices. I would have voted for something like "it's ok, but overrated". |
It's not overrated , it just happens that a few bands ( I.E. Dream Theater) get too much attention.
BaldFriede wrote:
And lately some people are trying to turn this site into a prog-metal site, which I don't approve of. |
No, they are not trying to turn this into a "Prog metal" site .They are trying to better catagorize the archives , and make it easier to find what you are interested in. helping those of us who like prog metal and want to find new band/albums.
Give the guys credit , its deserved . Some of us actually appreciate people like Mike, Bryan , Jody etc. the ones who want to help this site grow ,and are making it happen.
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Posted By: Kohllapse
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 05:05
BTW Im not saying that you arent appreciated BaldFriede. you are.
but why the animosity for those who like prog metal and want it on this site?
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 05:14
Because the intitial approach already was wrong (and clearly is proof for my statement). Had the initial approach been: "I suggest that some of the major genrés become more organized. I volunteer to do that for prog-metal.", I'd be with you. But it wasn't. It was a mere suggestion of re-organization of prog-metal. Need I say more?
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 05:25
Alright, I take the blame. I don't have a problem to admit that I want to promote prog metal.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Lindsay Lohan
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 05:33
Yes i think prog metal is the only sub genre that could do with a bit of more accurate classification...symphonic prog already got a sub sub genre wich is not very helpful at all..as it does nothing to describe the music
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 05:37
It is not that I dislike prog-metal in general. There are some bands which are listed under prog-metal which I do like (Adagio for example), but these bands are also bands which I would NOT put into that category, if I had to organise this site. What irritates me most about some prog-metal is the pubescent attitude "Look what a strong and heavy guy I am!" If I were still a teenager it might probably appeal to me, but I am not.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Posted By: Phil
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 05:46
BaldFriede wrote:
What irritates me most about some prog-metal is
the pubescent attitude "Look what a strong and heavy guy I am!" If
I were still a teenager it might probably appeal to me, but I am
not. |
I agree with this sentiment. But as I've raved over Tool I suppose I should vote yes.
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Posted By: Lindsay Lohan
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 05:46
BaldFriede wrote:
It is not that I dislike prog-metal in general. There are some bands which are listed under prog-metal which I do like (Adagio for example), but these bands are also bands which I would NOT put into that category, if I had to organise this site. What irritates me most about some prog-metal is the pubescent attitude "Look what a strong and heavy guy I am!" If I were still a teenager it might probably appeal to me, but I am not. |
i think both ayreon and fantomas are great and i don think they could fall into this category of just showing of...in general music is to be expressing peoples emotions...and if they are very agressive the music can tend to get agressive..although i dont like that kind of music
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 05:47
Adagio are an amazing band, very professional and ambitioned musicians and quite sophisticated songwriting. But they're not very diverse in their choice of musical "tools", it is mostly centered around classical piano parts and Power Metal. Initially I placed them in the Symphonic category, but like Symphony X they are very close to the traditional metal sound, that's why they're now in the Power/"Heavy" category.
Just out of curiosity: How would you describe Adagio - how would you "tag" them (multiple genres)?
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: rockandrail
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 05:52
I don't like metal. At all! Though I like Hard Rock. Therefore, as regards Prog Metal, the least metal and the more prog the band will be, the more I will have a chance to like it.
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Posted By: Citanul
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 06:03
rockandrail wrote:
I don't like metal. At all! Though I like Hard Rock. |
Where do you draw the line between hard rock and metal?
------------- Be or be not. There is no question. - Yoda, Prince of Denmark
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 06:05
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Adagio are an amazing band, very professional and ambitioned musicians and quite sophisticated songwriting. But they're not very diverse in their choice of musical "tools", it is mostly centered around classical piano parts and Power Metal. Initially I placed them in the Symphonic category, but like Symphony X they are very close to the traditional metal sound, that's why they're now in the Power/"Heavy" category.
Just out of curiosity: How would you describe Adagio - how would you "tag" them (multiple genres)?
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I would just put them into "Symphonic", without any further tagging.
By the way: If all someone had ever heard of Genesis was the live version of "The Knife", he might get the impression they are a prog-metal band.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 07:19
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
I think it's a good thing that the poll doesn't have a "I'm being indecisive" option ... if you like some Prog Metal bands, you like Prog Metal. Only if you're sure that you don't like a single Prog Metal band, you should choose the other option.
To me, liking a particular band does not mean that I like the entire genre, neither does disliking a band mean that I dislike that band's genre.
Hence the need for at least one mid range option - otherwise it comes out lop-sided, as I'm sure that few people dislike Prog Metal as a genre.
BTW: You have been very silent about my Prog Metal categorization project ... any thoughts?
I haven't looked, to be honest - I assumed that it was about more sub-categorisation, which is not something I like to dwell on.
I prefer to think "Do I think it's prog or not, and if so, why so". I could care a great deal more about whether it fits into a subgenre that's badly defined from the word go - even the super-genre Prog Rock is only hazily defined by its advocates.
Progressive Metal should be a) Progressive and b) Metal. Defining those should be the priority over subclassification, IMO.
But I'll take a quick look in case my assumptions are unfounded... |
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Posted By: rockandrail
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 07:25
Citanul wrote:
rockandrail wrote:
I don't like metal. At all! Though I like Hard Rock. |
Where do you draw the line between hard rock and metal?
| Difficult to draw a line. The guitar has to have some feeling, there have to be distinctive solos, the tempo must remain reasonable. No "me I am able to play faster than my shadow, only pulling off and tapping" guitarist.
Aerosmith, AC/DC, Status Quo, Deep Purple, Led zeppelin is what I call Hard Rock (since 1969). It may have changed as a definition but I don't care.
------------- Pierre R, the man who lost his signature
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 07:42
MikeEnRegalia and Progtologist:
As I understand it, you two (if there are others, this includes you to) are working on the organization of prog-metal. I agree with this. I think one of the propositions Mike made in the original thread in the Prog Music Lounge, to make "Prog Metal" a seperate entitiy from "Prog Rock" yet still include it on this site, is a great idea. Even if that is not what you plan on specifically doing, I support your project fully.
Carry on.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!
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Posted By: Lindsay Lohan
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 07:46
rockandrail wrote:
Citanul wrote:
rockandrail wrote:
I don't like metal. At all! Though I like Hard Rock. |
Where do you draw the line between hard rock and metal?
| Difficult to draw a line. The guitar has to have some feeling, there have to be distinctive solos, the tempo must remain reasonable. No "me I am able to play faster than my shadow, only pulling off and tapping" guitarist.
Aerosmith, AC/DC, Status Quo, Deep Purple, Led zeppelin is what I call Hard Rock (since 1969). It may have changed as a definition but I don't care.
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Hard rock puts alot more focus on blues than metal i think
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Posted By: rockandrail
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 07:50
This time I agree with you Maiden. Hard rock should better be called hard blues because it's where it finds its roots.
What about Black Sabbath? I adore all their early records (until sabotage). Metal or Hard Rock?
------------- Pierre R, the man who lost his signature
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Posted By: Lindsay Lohan
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 07:54
rockandrail wrote:
This time I agree with you Maiden. Hard rock should better be called hard blues because it's where it finds its roots.
What about Black Sabbath? I adore all their early records (until sabotage). Metal or Hard Rock?
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Hard to tell They dont show an obvious blues influence and their riffs sound a bit harder that other hard rock bands...i would rate them somewhere in between hard rock and metal...proto metal or something
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 08:02
Early Heavy Metal and Hard Rock were pretty much interchangeable as terms.
The music is based in the riffing structures of the late Heavy Blues bands - many of whom moved away from their blues roots to play more riff-based Hard Rock style music.
The band setup is more or less the same - lead guitar with plenty of soloing, bass, drums, and often a rhythm guitar as well as vocals. The 5-piece setup is classic for both Hard Rock and Heavy Metal.
Hard Rock tended to focus on the traditional blues themes, but elaborated them into celebratory themes of lust, life and luurve, and the music became swaggering and testosterone-laced. The rhythms became cleaner, but retained much of the swing of the original blues bands. (Think Aerosmith or AC/DC, etc.).
Heavy Metal focussed more on cult, dark or occult themes, and the music became darker - the riffs tending towards use of the tritone interval (e.g. E -> Bb). The rhythm guitar particularly used more fuzz and distortion and the rhythms became more constant, eschewing any notion of "swing" or anything that might indicate some sort of cheerfulness. (Think Blue Cheer, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Slayer, etc.).
Of course, there's always been crossovers, and bands that played some metal tracks and some hard rock tracks and it's not black and white (Think the Scorpions, Blue Oyster Cult, Saxon, etc.) - but I think that covers the basics.
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 08:14
^ well said ... I'd like to throw in the label "Heavy Rock" ... also often applied to bands like Deep Purple or Led Zeppelin.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 13:41
My fav genre!
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Posted By: eduardossc
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 14:16
There´s good music among metal prog. Definitely. However.....oh what the hell ¡¡.
You know what I really hate of metal prog?. There are some, or a lot of songs there that for many minutes sound exactly as any ordinary metal band, then they start playing synths to make it more bearable.
Other songs are nothing but plain metal. Some of them are even sung with that barking style as any Sepultura crap, and then they show a passage of a piece of music completly different to metal for a minute of so before returning to the barkings....That´s nothing but making metal with the intention of being considered prog. That´s cheesy. I see no conviction on that.
Still, I´ve heard great songs from Metal prog bands..Not for being prog, but for making original, creative, interesting, diverse and sophisticated compositions.
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 14:29
BaldFriede wrote:
Too few choices. I would have voted for something like "it's ok, but overrated". And lately some people are trying to turn this site into a prog-metal site, which I don't approve of. |
Speaking for myself,I am not trying to turn thus into a prog metal site.I am just trying to help make the prog metal section,which I think is very disorganized,a little more organized.
While I think you are a very knowledgeable and intelligent person,you are pretty biased towards music you don't like.Well,let me say it this way...you are pretty biased towards prog metal.If it's not some obscure RIO,Zeuhl,Krautrock music you basically don't want to heard about it.Bad attitude to have,you ought to be a little more open than that.
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 14:30
stonebeard wrote:
MikeEnRegalia and Progtologist:
As I understand it, you two (if there are others, this includes you to) are working on the organization of prog-metal. I agree with this. I think one of the propositions Mike made in the original thread in the Prog Music Lounge, to make "Prog Metal" a seperate entitiy from "Prog Rock" yet still include it on this site, is a great idea. Even if that is not what you plan on specifically doing, I support your project fully.
Carry on.
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Sorry, but that's nothing than an attempt to have and eat your cake. Either prog-metal is a part of progressive rock, then no separation is necessary, or it isn't, then what the hell does it in here?
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 14:41
TheProgtologist wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
Too few choices. I would have voted for something like "it's ok, but overrated". And lately some people are trying to turn this site into a prog-metal site, which I don't approve of. |
Speaking for myself,I am not trying to turn thus into a prog metal site.I am just trying to help make the prog metal section,which I think is very disorganized,a little more organized.
While I think you are a very knowledgeable and intelligent person,you are pretty biased towards music you don't like.Well,let me say it this way...you are pretty biased towards prog metal.If it's not some obscure RIO,Zeuhl,Krautrock music you basically don't want to heard about it.Bad attitude to have,you ought to be a little more open than that.
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Nowhere did I say I don't like prog-metal, and it is not relevant at all whether I like it or not. I'll repeat what I said in another thread:
I'll restate my opinion: The whole project was started badly. If we go re-organizing sub-genrés at all, then let's tackle the big ones first (Art Rock and Symphonic). At least the proposal should have been something like this:
I propose that we reorganize the genrés a little by subdividing the genrés further. We need volunteers for reorganising:
Art Rock Symphonic Krautrock Prog-Metal etc.
I myself volunteer for prog-metal. The way it is done now is extremely lopsided. Thius is not the prog-metal archives.
This I would have fully appreciated. But I reject the way Mike went about it. It is lopsided and nothing but a big ballyhoo about prog-metal.
Had Mike started a thread like that, he would have had my full support. But the way he went about it - pfui.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 14:49
BaldFriede wrote:
TheProgtologist wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
Too few choices. I would have voted for something like "it's ok, but overrated". And lately some people are trying to turn this site into a prog-metal site, which I don't approve of. |
Speaking for myself,I am not trying to turn thus into a prog metal site.I am just trying to help make the prog metal section,which I think is very disorganized,a little more organized.
While I think you are a very knowledgeable and intelligent person,you are pretty biased towards music you don't like.Well,let me say it this way...you are pretty biased towards prog metal.If it's not some obscure RIO,Zeuhl,Krautrock music you basically don't want to heard about it.Bad attitude to have,you ought to be a little more open than that.
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Nowhere did I say I don't like prog-metal, and it is not relevant at all whether I like it or not. I'll repeat what I said in another thread:
I'll restate my opinion: The whole project was started badly. If we go re-organizing sub-genrés at all, then let's tackle the big ones first (Art Rock and Symphonic). At least the proposal should have been something like this:
I propose that we reorganize the genrés a little by subdividing the genrés further. We need volunteers for reorganising:
Art Rock Symphonic Krautrock Prog-Metal etc.
I myself volunteer for prog-metal. The way it is done now is extremely lopsided. Thius is not the prog-metal archives.
This I would have fully appreciated. But I reject the way Mike went about it. It is lopsided and nothing but a big ballyhoo about prog-metal.
Had Mike started a thread like that, he would have had my full support. But the way he went about it - pfui.
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BS.You are just upset because Mike and a few other people(myself included) took it upon themselves to do this and didn't ask for anyone permission or opinion first(how dare we!!).And it also galls you that the few people who took the intitiative and did something did it with prog metal FIRST.
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 14:55
No, I am upset because this is clearly not an attempt to reorganize the site for the better (for that something like I wrote would have been the appropriate move), it is just making ballyhoo for prog-metal. And, by the way, I would have opposed it the same way, had someone started something like this for Krautrock or any other genré. If we are to re-organise the site, fine; I'm all for it. But don't start a half-baked and half-hearted attempt like this.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 15:00
BaldFriede wrote:
No, I am upset because this is clearly not an attempt to reorganize the site for the better (for that something like I wrote would have been the appropriate move), it is just making ballyhoo for prog-metal. And, by the way, I would have opposed it the same way, had someone started something like this for Krautrock or any other genré. If we are to re-organise the site, fine; I'm all for it. But don't start a half-baked and half-hearted attempt like this. |
YOU HAVE GOT SOME NERVE.FOR ONE THING THIS WAS NOT HALF-BAKED OR HALF-HEARTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A lot of thought and one hell of a lot of work went into what we did.
The best thing to do is have collabs who specialize in the other genres do the same thing.I love all prog,but my passion is progressive metal.Believe me,if my passion was symphonic I would have attempted to re-organize symphonic.It just so happens that people that were willing to take the time and put some effort into it were fans of prgressive metal.
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 15:07
It is half-baked, because you concentrate on prog-metal only; I already outlined how it should have been done. What would have been wrong with a suggestion like the one I gave and volunteering for prog-metal on your side? You would still have got what you wanted, if reorganizing prog-metal was your goal, but you would have included the bigger aim of a reorganistaion of the whole site. But no, you had to make some ballyhoo about prog-metal. Once more: This is NOT because I dislike prog-metal, it is because of your lopsided approach for a reorganisation of the site. Read the proposal of mine again, as I think yours should have been; you would have had my full support then.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Posted By: Empty Spaces
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 15:11
Tough one... i do much prefer art/symph/space rock (i.e cool prog rock) to prog metal but from what ive heard its pretty cool. scenes from memory by D.T and some of Symphony X is real good anyway.
------------- Bow before Rick Wright... For he is your God
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Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 16:36
I think prog-metal is great, though not my favorite genre
------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!
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Posted By: John Gargo
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 16:42
It's a flawed question, because there are so many prog metal bands with VASTLY different styles. Pain of Salvation sounds NOTHING like Arcturus which sound NOTHING like Psychotic Waltz which sound NOTHING like Fates Warning which sound NOTHING like Symphony X etc. etc. etc.
For those that voted that they don't like the genre, I think it has a lot to do with ignorance and an assumption that all prog metal bands sound like Dream Theater (these are the kind of people that only listen to music from the 70s... you have to be a LITTLE close minded to post at a prog forum but we're talking extremes with this crowd).
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 16:45
BaldFriede wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
MikeEnRegalia and Progtologist:
As I understand it, you two (if there are others, this includes you to) are working on the organization of prog-metal. I agree with this. I think one of the propositions Mike made in the original thread in the Prog Music Lounge, to make "Prog Metal" a seperate entitiy from "Prog Rock" yet still include it on this site, is a great idea. Even if that is not what you plan on specifically doing, I support your project fully.
Carry on.
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Sorry, but that's nothing than an attempt to have and eat your cake. Either prog-metal is a part of progressive rock, then no separation is necessary, or it isn't, then what the hell does it in here?
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I think prog metal and progressive rock are closely and undeniably linked. Many people who like prog metal bands like Opeth and Dream Theater come to PA and discover bands like Yes, Marillion, Symphony X and others, thus increasing PROGRESSIVE ROCK's overall fanbase. So, I believe for that reason, prog metal should be kept on this site. Since it's here, why don't we try to organize it for the convenience of the readers? This is logical to me.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!
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Posted By: DeadGhost
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 16:47
great genre!!
my favorites are Opeth and Fates Warning
I truly think Opeth is taking this genre foward with awesome riffs, uniqueness, vocals and variety. one of the best bands today!!!
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 17:33
stonebeard wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
MikeEnRegalia and Progtologist:
As I understand it, you two (if there are others, this includes you to) are working on the organization of prog-metal. I agree with this. I think one of the propositions Mike made in the original thread in the Prog Music Lounge, to make "Prog Metal" a seperate entitiy from "Prog Rock" yet still include it on this site, is a great idea. Even if that is not what you plan on specifically doing, I support your project fully.
Carry on.
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Sorry, but that's nothing than an attempt to have and eat your cake. Either prog-metal is a part of progressive rock, then no separation is necessary, or it isn't, then what the hell does it in here?
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I think prog metal and progressive rock are closely and undeniably linked. Many people who like prog metal bands like Opeth and Dream Theater come to PA and discover bands like Yes, Marillion, Symphony X and others, thus increasing PROGRESSIVE ROCK's overall fanbase. So, I believe for that reason, prog metal should be kept on this site. Since it's here, why don't we try to organize it for the convenience of the readers? This is logical to me.
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You miss my point. For convenience of the reader genrés like symphonic prog or art-rock are way overdue of a reworking. Why don't we tackle them all? Would this have been suggested, with the ones who proposed a splitting-up of prog-metal volunteering for prog-metal, I would have been all for it. But the way it was done it was only to direct some spotlight at prog-metal. I repeat: Why did those who suggested splitting up prog-metal not suggest a general overhauling of genrés and volunteer for prog-metal? That's what I would have called some improvement of the site, and I would have supported it immediately and would have applauded them. The current suggestion is just an attempt of prog-metal heads to get more attention for their genré.
And I repeat: This has nothing whatever to do with my liking or not-liking of prog-metal; I just see an imbalance to the site if we follow the given suggestion. I would say just the same if someone suggested to split up any other sub-genré of prog. This is not the prog metal archives, nor is it the Zheul archives or the Krautrock archives. Either we split them all up or none.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Posted By: Paulieg
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 17:37
I like it. As a matter of fact, I love prog-metal.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 17:37
have to be honest, of what I've heard (which isn't much) I don't really
care for it. I will make an honest effort to get into it someday.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 17:40
I just want to add that Friede and I suggested that a band could belong to more than one genré, which would make this splitting-up unnecessary and be much more accurate.
-------------
A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Posted By: Olympus
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 17:54
I Like it.
------------- "Let's get the hell away from this Eerie-ass piece of work so we can get on with the rest of our eerie-ass day"
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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 17:57
I dont care for it. I like Ayeron and a song or two from other bands, but that is pretty much the extent of it.
------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 18:02
I LOVE IT ULKULK!
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Posted By: Crafter
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 18:15
I like it. I'd listened to metal before prog. I really like PoS, DT, Green Carnation, Jeremy (Korean Prog Metal ), Evergrey, The Provenance, SX and others, a bit Opeth too...
------------- Uh ? Oh, I see :D
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 23:28
BaldFriede wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
MikeEnRegalia and Progtologist:
As I understand it, you two (if there are others, this includes you to) are working on the organization of prog-metal. I agree with this. I think one of the propositions Mike made in the original thread in the Prog Music Lounge, to make "Prog Metal" a seperate entitiy from "Prog Rock" yet still include it on this site, is a great idea. Even if that is not what you plan on specifically doing, I support your project fully.
Carry on.
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Sorry, but that's nothing than an attempt to have and eat your cake. Either prog-metal is a part of progressive rock, then no separation is necessary, or it isn't, then what the hell does it in here?
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I think prog metal and progressive rock are closely and undeniably linked. Many people who like prog metal bands like Opeth and Dream Theater come to PA and discover bands like Yes, Marillion, Symphony X and others, thus increasing PROGRESSIVE ROCK's overall fanbase. So, I believe for that reason, prog metal should be kept on this site. Since it's here, why don't we try to organize it for the convenience of the readers? This is logical to me.
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You miss my point. For convenience of the reader genrés like symphonic prog or art-rock are way overdue of a reworking. Why don't we tackle them all? Would this have been suggested, with the ones who proposed a splitting-up of prog-metal volunteering for prog-metal, I would have been all for it. But the way it was done it was only to direct some spotlight at prog-metal. I repeat: Why did those who suggested splitting up prog-metal not suggest a general overhauling of genrés and volunteer for prog-metal? That's what I would have called some improvement of the site, and I would have supported it immediately and would have applauded them. The current suggestion is just an attempt of prog-metal heads to get more attention for their genré.
And I repeat: This has nothing whatever to do with my liking or not-liking of prog-metal; I just see an imbalance to the site if we follow the given suggestion. I would say just the same if someone suggested to split up any other sub-genré of prog. This is not the prog metal archives, nor is it the Zheul archives or the Krautrock archives. Either we split them all up or none.
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OK, but instead of being resentful of Prog-Metal being "tackled" first, why don't you (or whoever wants to) spearhead reorganizing the other sub-genres. Personally, I don't care too much. The lines are blurred too often for effective organization in my opinion.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 23:48
BaldJean wrote:
I just want to add that Friede and I suggested that a band could belong to more than one genré, which would make this splitting-up unnecessary and be much more accurate. |
That would be cool, if the genres were listed all together. As the site is now, it would be incredibly confusing to search the Prog Metal section and find Dream Theater, then go to the Symphonic Prog Section and find them there too.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: October 29 2005 at 02:48
Posted By: James Hill
Date Posted: October 29 2005 at 03:17
Not only am I Prog fan I am a metal fan and when the two are combined that much better.I must say however not all Prog Metal is killer because too many vocalist think they are opera singers or something.Hey I love Dream Theater,Symphony X,Vaden Plas or Threshold as much as anyone else but there are too many Fates Warning,Dungen,Queens Riech or many others with anoying vocals.I must say my favorite Prog metal right now is Ayreon the dutch master.
------------- symphonic james
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Posted By: JesusBetancourt
Date Posted: October 29 2005 at 03:21
I used to be a metal fan, then I got into prog metal for about 3 years. After that I got exposed to the Genius of Gentle Giant, Genesis, Yes, King Crimson,etc, etc.....Its has been a year since I have been exposed and now I traded in EVERY prog metal album for prog rock albums. Prog metal is just too cheezy for me now.
------------- "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water"
John 7:38
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Posted By: JesusBetancourt
Date Posted: October 29 2005 at 03:30
Dont misunderstand me, prog metal still has its moments. For one I still own Tool's Laterilus
------------- "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water"
John 7:38
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Posted By: Tristan Mulders
Date Posted: October 29 2005 at 12:05
stonebeard wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
MikeEnRegalia and Progtologist:
As I understand it, you two (if there are others, this includes you to) are working on the organization of prog-metal. I agree with this. I think one of the propositions Mike made in the original thread in the Prog Music Lounge, to make "Prog Metal" a seperate entitiy from "Prog Rock" yet still include it on this site, is a great idea. Even if that is not what you plan on specifically doing, I support your project fully.
Carry on.
|
Sorry, but that's nothing than an attempt to have and eat your cake. Either prog-metal is a part of progressive rock, then no separation is necessary, or it isn't, then what the hell does it in here?
|
I think prog metal and progressive rock are closely and undeniably linked. Many people who like prog metal bands like Opeth and Dream Theater come to PA and discover bands like Yes, Marillion, Symphony X and others, thus increasing PROGRESSIVE ROCK's overall fanbase. So, I believe for that reason, prog metal should be kept on this site. Since it's here, why don't we try to organize it for the convenience of the readers? This is logical to me.
|
You miss my point. For convenience of the reader genrés like symphonic prog or art-rock are way overdue of a reworking. Why don't we tackle them all? Would this have been suggested, with the ones who proposed a splitting-up of prog-metal volunteering for prog-metal, I would have been all for it. But the way it was done it was only to direct some spotlight at prog-metal. I repeat: Why did those who suggested splitting up prog-metal not suggest a general overhauling of genrés and volunteer for prog-metal? That's what I would have called some improvement of the site, and I would have supported it immediately and would have applauded them. The current suggestion is just an attempt of prog-metal heads to get more attention for their genré.
And I repeat: This has nothing whatever to do with my liking or not-liking of prog-metal; I just see an imbalance to the site if we follow the given suggestion. I would say just the same if someone suggested to split up any other sub-genré of prog. This is not the prog metal archives, nor is it the Zheul archives or the Krautrock archives. Either we split them all up or none.
|
OK, but instead of being resentful of Prog-Metal being "tackled" first, why don't you (or whoever wants to) spearhead reorganizing the other sub-genres. Personally, I don't care too much. The lines are blurred too often for effective organization in my opinion.
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Or just continue with the next genre after prog metal is finished .
------------- Interested in my reviews?
You can find them http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=784 - HERE
"...He will search until He's found a Way to take the Days..."
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: October 29 2005 at 17:23
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ well said ... I'd like to throw in the label "Heavy Rock" ... also often applied to bands like Deep Purple or Led Zeppelin. |
Both bands were progressive, so "progressive heavy rock" is appropriate. One could just as easily classify AC/DC or Led Zeppelin as Heavy Blues, Heavy Rock, Hard Rock or Heavy Metal - and be right each time.
The term "Heavy" as applied to rock music originated in the 1960s, and is used by Grace Slick on the "Woodstock" compilation album during her band introduction speech, which runs something like;
"OK, people, you have heard the heavy bands, now it's time for morning maniac music".
Heavy referred to the seriousness and earnestness with which the bands played the music, as well as the opposite to the "lightness" of sound and philosophy of the more folky, dancy and "peace, love and happiness" type bands.
Terms like these have a grounding in reality, and are convenient "labels", as you put it, but can be readily interchanged and crossed-over. Deep Purple's music grew out of psychedelia and the blues, and Led Zeppelin's grew mainly out of the blues, with a dash of folk. These are the same roots that Prog Rock had.
Prog Metal's roots are mainly in metal - anything else seems largely forgotten or cut off. The "Prog" aspect of it comes from doing something a bit different to the rest - using odd time signatures, making it a bit more technically complex by and extending elements like riffs, bridges and so on. These are not common techniques in "traditional" Prog Rock.
The usefulness of subclassifying it seems limited to those who have a deep interest in the genre only; to those not immersed in it already, it all seems rather confusing.
That's only my perception, of course - I'm sure that your hard work is very useful to fans of Prog Metal.
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: October 29 2005 at 17:31
JesusBetancourt wrote:
I used to be a metal fan, then I got into prog metal for about 3 years. After that I got exposed to the Genius of Gentle Giant, Genesis, Yes, King Crimson,etc, etc.....Its has been a year since I have been exposed and now I traded in EVERY prog metal album for prog rock albums. Prog metal is just too cheezy for me now.
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Too Cheesy? Have you ever read Yes lyrics?
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 29 2005 at 17:31
Of course my work is primarily useful to fans of Prog Metal. The Prog Rock categories are also quite confusing for newbies and generally only useful to fans of Prog Rock ...
Isn't the following a good procedure for getting to know Prog Metal:
- Find out the names of some key bands which are recommended by people
- If you like one of them, try to find similar bands
- If you like one of these, try to find similar bands etc. etc. etc.
IMO my categories can be helpful in finding similar bands. Currently the Avant/Experimental genre is confusing, but in all the others there is a much better chance that people find similar things.
Example: Someone likes Dream Theater and tries the next best band in the general Prog Metal top 100. He might end up with Devin Townsend, or Psychotic Waltz, or Opeth. With the sub genres there's a chance that he might find Pain of Salvation or Shadow Gallery first ...
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: October 29 2005 at 17:37
^ Yep, and what is Progarchives about? Introducing people more into other aspects of Prog, not just the snobby five.
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Posted By: Pseud0
Date Posted: October 29 2005 at 17:51
i like metal thats actually progressive - not w**kery like shadow gallery, dream theater, symphony x or whatever
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Posted By: Kohllapse
Date Posted: October 29 2005 at 17:54
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Of course my work is primarily useful to fans of Prog Metal. The Prog Rock categories are also quite confusing for newbies and generally only useful to fans of Prog Rock ...
Isn't the following a good procedure for getting to know Prog Metal:
- Find out the names of some key bands which are recommended by people
- If you like one of them, try to find similar bands
- If you like one of these, try to find similar bands etc. etc. etc.
IMO my categories can be helpful in finding similar bands. Currently the Avant/Experimental genre is confusing, but in all the others there is a much better chance that people find similar things.
Example: Someone likes Dream Theater and tries the next best band in the general Prog Metal top 100. He might end up with Devin Townsend, or Psychotic Waltz, or Opeth. With the sub genres there's a chance that he might find Pain of Salvation or Shadow Gallery first ... | If what Mike is doing now had been done long ago,finding new bands would be "easy"and i wouldnt have had to search for hours and hours frustrated trying to find bands i was interested in . Thank you Mike and all those who participate in this project.
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Posted By: Arnold Layne
Date Posted: October 29 2005 at 17:57
I love it, thanks Jody
------------- HELP!
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 29 2005 at 18:02
King of Loss wrote:
^ Yep, and what is Progarchives about? Introducing people more into other aspects of Prog, not just the snobby five.
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People can choose freely ... stay in one genre or move to another. Or not use genres at all of course.
Think of a search form where you have a checkbox for each genre, for example.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 21:12
Arnold Layne wrote:
I love it, thanks Jody |
Your welcome,arnold
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Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 21:15
I can't remember if I have posted on this topic or not.......maybe its due to the fact that Im currently drinking........but YES- I LOVE prog metal
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Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 21:36
I like Prog Metal - and great work Mike, Jody et al on the re-organisation project
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp
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Posted By: W.Chuck
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 21:40
Prog-metal is amazing!!!
I wouldn't know what to do without!
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 22:04
I'll be 100% honest, I like some Prog Metal, it's not my favorite sub-genre, but there are good and bad bands as in any other genre, for example yesterday got a Pain of Salvation album and found it pretty Good (Thanks for the tip Proctologyst and Bryan), but I get bored after 10 minutes of Dream Theater (Not saying they are bad or suck, just not my cup of tea).
What I don't like is the desperation to consider any metal band with keyboiards as Progressive, as I don't like to see so many AOR bands compared with Kansas or Alternative bands mentioned as the new Pink Floyd.
Iván
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