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Iron Maiden debut or Kill 'em All?
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Poll Question: Iron Maiden debut or Kill 'em All?
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Cristi View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Too easy.......Iron Maiden slaughters anything Metallica has done. Speed metal is a very boring style of playing, and Lars has to be one of the worst drummers to ever make a record.
Hetfield can also be a big doosh.

I agree and disagree with what you say there. 

Metallica did not play speed metal, it was thrash. Speed metal was basically fast paced heavy metal, vocals were cleaner than thrash, sometimes Halford inspired. 

As for speed & thrash being boring, I would not generalize. I've listened to my share of uninteresting to godawful thrash, but also awesome and entertaining bands/albums. 

As for Lars being one of the worst drummers - I kinda agree. But in the 80s, at least he was trying and trying hard. He did not care much in the 2000s and that can be seen in the music. On Metallica's last album he made an effort again. Maybe he's had enough with people making fun of his drumming, I don't know. 

Lars and James being dooshes? Yeah, sometimes. But then again, there are many in rock and metal (even prog), more famous or just as famous as them. 
Yup that's it Thrash......I thought that after I posted but then forgot to edit as one of my fav shows was on last night, Seal Team.
Thanks!
I like all Maiden albums from first to Seventh Son, but none of them are greater than Metallicaīs Master of Puppets, ...And Justice for All, s/t (Black Album) or St. Anger (yes, I really love that album even really many Metallica fans hate). And I havenīt got ever any problems with Lars drumming, although he really isnīt any Bruford. I think he just fits Metallica-style perfectly!

I would not compare Lars with Bruford, I don't expect him to. But listen to the drumming of other metal bands - Exodus, Testament, Death Angel, Anthrax (mentioned above by Tom) to name a few and then listen to Lars and then you'll see why many are dissatisfied. 
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Too easy.......Iron Maiden slaughters anything Metallica has done. Speed metal is a very boring style of playing, and Lars has to be one of the worst drummers to ever make a record.
Hetfield can also be a big doosh.

I agree and disagree with what you say there. 

Metallica did not play speed metal, it was thrash. Speed metal was basically fast paced heavy metal, vocals were cleaner than thrash, sometimes Halford inspired. 

As for speed & thrash being boring, I would not generalize. I've listened to my share of uninteresting to godawful thrash, but also awesome and entertaining bands/albums. 

As for Lars being one of the worst drummers - I kinda agree. But in the 80s, at least he was trying and trying hard. He did not care much in the 2000s and that can be seen in the music. On Metallica's last album he made an effort again. Maybe he's had enough with people making fun of his drumming, I don't know. 

Lars and James being dooshes? Yeah, sometimes. But then again, there are many in rock and metal (even prog), more famous or just as famous as them. 
Yup that's it Thrash......I thought that after I posted but then forgot to edit as one of my fav shows was on last night, Seal Team.
Thanks!
I like all Maiden albums from first to Seventh Son, but none of them are greater than Metallicaīs Master of Puppets, ...And Justice for All, s/t (Black Album) or St. Anger (yes, I really love that album even really many Metallica fans hate). And I havenīt got ever any problems with Lars drumming, although he really isnīt any Bruford. I think he just fits Metallica-style perfectly!

I would not compare Lars with Bruford, I don't expect him to. But listen to the drumming of other metal bands - Exodus, Testament, Death Angel, Anthrax (mentioned above by Tom) to name a few and then listen to Lars and then you'll see why many are dissatisfied. 
I have heard those bands. I also understand what you mean about Lars playing, but itīs just that I think heīs style of playing, whatever clumsy it is, doesnīt do any harm to Metallica music. Just because itīs not the music drummers skills are most important. And Lars can play fast without tempo failing at least too much.
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Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Too easy.......Iron Maiden slaughters anything Metallica has done. Speed metal is a very boring style of playing, and Lars has to be one of the worst drummers to ever make a record.
Hetfield can also be a big doosh.

I agree and disagree with what you say there. 

Metallica did not play speed metal, it was thrash. Speed metal was basically fast paced heavy metal, vocals were cleaner than thrash, sometimes Halford inspired. 

As for speed & thrash being boring, I would not generalize. I've listened to my share of uninteresting to godawful thrash, but also awesome and entertaining bands/albums. 

As for Lars being one of the worst drummers - I kinda agree. But in the 80s, at least he was trying and trying hard. He did not care much in the 2000s and that can be seen in the music. On Metallica's last album he made an effort again. Maybe he's had enough with people making fun of his drumming, I don't know. 

Lars and James being dooshes? Yeah, sometimes. But then again, there are many in rock and metal (even prog), more famous or just as famous as them. 
Yup that's it Thrash......I thought that after I posted but then forgot to edit as one of my fav shows was on last night, Seal Team.
Thanks!
I like all Maiden albums from first to Seventh Son, but none of them are greater than Metallicaīs Master of Puppets, ...And Justice for All, s/t (Black Album) or St. Anger (yes, I really love that album even really many Metallica fans hate). And I havenīt got ever any problems with Lars drumming, although he really isnīt any Bruford. I think he just fits Metallica-style perfectly!

I would not compare Lars with Bruford, I don't expect him to. But listen to the drumming of other metal bands - Exodus, Testament, Death Angel, Anthrax (mentioned above by Tom) to name a few and then listen to Lars and then you'll see why many are dissatisfied. 
I have heard those bands. I also understand what you mean about Lars playing, but itīs just that I think heīs style of playing, whatever clumsy it is, doesnīt do any harm to Metallica music. Just because itīs not the music drummers skills are most important. And Lars can play fast without tempo failing at least too much.

His limitations are quite noticeable on Death Magnetic. The drums have also been recorded upfront, rather loud. I think the music suffers. I would like to see or better said hear Hetfield jam with a top notch skilled drummer, I think it could be very interesting, it will not happen. Hetfield has always been the driving force in the band and I dare say he's carried Lars along. LOL Lars is very lucky with the guys in the band putting up with him. LOL
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Too easy.......Iron Maiden slaughters anything Metallica has done. Speed metal is a very boring style of playing, and Lars has to be one of the worst drummers to ever make a record.
Hetfield can also be a big doosh.

I agree and disagree with what you say there. 

Metallica did not play speed metal, it was thrash. Speed metal was basically fast paced heavy metal, vocals were cleaner than thrash, sometimes Halford inspired. 

As for speed & thrash being boring, I would not generalize. I've listened to my share of uninteresting to godawful thrash, but also awesome and entertaining bands/albums. 

As for Lars being one of the worst drummers - I kinda agree. But in the 80s, at least he was trying and trying hard. He did not care much in the 2000s and that can be seen in the music. On Metallica's last album he made an effort again. Maybe he's had enough with people making fun of his drumming, I don't know. 

Lars and James being dooshes? Yeah, sometimes. But then again, there are many in rock and metal (even prog), more famous or just as famous as them. 
Yup that's it Thrash......I thought that after I posted but then forgot to edit as one of my fav shows was on last night, Seal Team.
Thanks!
I like all Maiden albums from first to Seventh Son, but none of them are greater than Metallicaīs Master of Puppets, ...And Justice for All, s/t (Black Album) or St. Anger (yes, I really love that album even really many Metallica fans hate). And I havenīt got ever any problems with Lars drumming, although he really isnīt any Bruford. I think he just fits Metallica-style perfectly!

I would not compare Lars with Bruford, I don't expect him to. But listen to the drumming of other metal bands - Exodus, Testament, Death Angel, Anthrax (mentioned above by Tom) to name a few and then listen to Lars and then you'll see why many are dissatisfied. 
I have heard those bands. I also understand what you mean about Lars playing, but itīs just that I think heīs style of playing, whatever clumsy it is, doesnīt do any harm to Metallica music. Just because itīs not the music drummers skills are most important. And Lars can play fast without tempo failing at least too much.

His limitations are quite noticeable on Death Magnetic. The drums have also been recorded upfront, rather loud. I think the music suffers. I would like to see or better said hear Hetfield jam with a top notch skilled drummer, I think it could be very interesting, it will not happen. Hetfield has always been the driving force in the band and I dare say he's carried Lars along. LOL Lars is very lucky with the guys in the band putting up with him. LOL

Well there are also very limited, eighties Metallica-stuff clone-riffs in that boring album. I think itīs their worst album, result from those many "letīs think the substance of Metallica" meetings they have with the producer. They just tried to please fans because fans were angry about St. Anger and in that way you canīt make a good album.
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Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:


Well there are also very limited, eighties Metallica-stuff clone-riffs in that boring album. I think itīs their worst album, result from those many "letīs think the substance of Metallica" meetings they have with the producer. They just tried to please fans because fans were angry about St. Anger and in that way you canīt make a good album.

Death Magnetic was fan service indeed, and was successful. Funny thing they released an EP called Beyond Magnetic which I find more enjoyable than DM. LOL
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^ I like Death Magnetic, though Lars’ foot work is sloppy for sure.
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^^ There are some concert live clips on youtube featuring Joey Jordison backing up for Lars on drums. The entire comment section is all about, " now Lars and Kirk realize how it is to actualy play with a drummer that knows how to play in-time and correct tempo"

Edited by Icarium - April 30 2020 at 15:00
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Iron Maiden
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Originally posted by Icarium Icarium wrote:

^^ There are some concert live clips on youtube featuring Joey Jordison backing up for Lars on drums. The entire comment section is all about, " now Lars and Kirk realize how it is to actualy play with a drummer that knows how to play in-time and correct tempo"

LOL.......word
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More love for The X Factor 🤘🏽
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Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

More love for The X Factor 🤘🏽

more love for early Maiden! LOL
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

More love for The X Factor 🤘🏽


more love for early Maiden! LOL
Effing love Maiden. Yes, even Virtual XI (their weakest) - Futureal is AMAZING 😉
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Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

More love for The X Factor 🤘🏽


more love for early Maiden! LOL
Effing love Maiden. Yes, even Virtual XI (their weakest) - Futureal is AMAZING 😉

with one good song, Virtual XI makes a nice beer coaster. 
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

More love for The X Factor 🤘🏽


more love for early Maiden! LOL
Effing love Maiden. Yes, even Virtual XI (their weakest) - Futureal is AMAZING 😉


with one good song, Virtual XI makes a nice beer coaster. 
O.K. when Two Worlds Collide, The Clansman and Don’t Look to the Eyes of a Stranger are all fine tracks. I bought the vinyl upon release and it’s worth a packet now for some reason....i rank it above No Prayer and Fear of the Dark.
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Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

More love for The X Factor 🤘🏽


more love for early Maiden! LOL
Effing love Maiden. Yes, even Virtual XI (their weakest) - Futureal is AMAZING 😉


with one good song, Virtual XI makes a nice beer coaster. 
O.K. when Two Worlds Collide, The Clansman and Don’t Look to the Eyes of a Stranger are all fine tracks. I bought the vinyl upon release and it’s worth a packet now for some reason....i rank it above No Prayer and Fear of the Dark.

Really? To me it's an unlistenable mess.


Edited by Cristi - March 06 2024 at 09:44
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I love Rock in Rio's version of The Clansman with Dickinson on vocals.
They did a great version of that song in the Legacy of the Beast Tour last year.
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

More love for The X Factor 🤘🏽


more love for early Maiden! LOL
Effing love Maiden. Yes, even Virtual XI (their weakest) - Futureal is AMAZING 😉


with one good song, Virtual XI makes a nice beer coaster. 
O.K. when Two Worlds Collide, The Clansman and Don’t Look to the Eyes of a Stranger are all fine tracks. I bought the vinyl upon release and it’s worth a packet now for some reason....i rank it above No Prayer and Fear of the Dark.


really? to me it's a unlistenable mess 
Most folks do. Maybe I’m a bit more forgiving with this album. The choruses are repetitive, the music is simpler, the songs, for what they are, maybe overlong in some cases, but I can listen with enjoyment, even if not up there.
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Kill 'Em All
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Easy vote for Kill 'em All for me.  And it's not like I don't like the IM debut.  If anything, I am partial to the D'Annio albums as they had a rawness that disappeared in the Bruce era.  

I just don't find the IM debut to be particularly pathbreaking.  More like following the footsteps of Judas Priest, Rainbow with Dio and Dio-Sabbath.  Dio is probably one of the most influential people in terms of developing a new epic direction for heavy metal in the 70s.  Whereas, while some underground albums (notably the Venom debut) may have anticipated Kill 'Em All, at a reasonably major band level, there had never been anything like it.  Even their thrash Big 4 contemporaries  (except Mustaine who has an axe to grind) have admitted to feeling influenced by early Metallica and that the success of KEA and RTL opened up many doors for them.  Metallica's impact on extreme metal was akin to Sex Pistols on punk.  

Now, yes, Lars was a terrible drummer and especially compared to Burr (as opposed to the wooden McBrain Maiden have had on board since Piece of Mind).  But as opposed to that, Burton was even more of a monster than Harris who was a one trick gallop pony and Hetfield is an underrated force on rhythm guitar. That more than compensated for Lars.  Hammett's solos may have been mediocre but then, so were Maiden's.  Again, just compare them to what Tipton was doing up at Priest and tell me again that they were so awesome and all that. 
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Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

 A minor digression here - Charlie Benante, Dave Lombardo, Nicko McBrain all run rings around Lars. His finest hour was .....And Justice......... But you all knew that.

Sure but Hetfield is a better rhythm guitarist than the ones of most of the thrash metal bands of his time.  Except Mustaine.  Only Megadeth were able to assemble lineups that beat Metallica almost all ends up (with the exception of bass, of course).  The other bands were always imbalanced.  Slayer, Anthrax, Dark Angel were all about the drums.  Sepultura got closer to putting together a good package but again, on bass, it was very hard to match Burton. 
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