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Topic ClosedGentle Giant gets ripped apart

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Trotsky View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2005 at 02:01

Hmmm just let me get this straight ...

This guy (known henceforth as Tiresias' Musical Genius Friend) recommends The Flower Kings, PoS and Spock's Beard and then proceeds to knock Gentle Giant for its shabby songwriting and being complex for the sake of it ...

I've read that over to myself four or five times and it sounds more ridiculous everytime ... IMO, while there are a hatful of talented musicians in TFK, PoS and SB ... GG's in a different league ... two or three divisions up in fact ...

Still where would we be if we didn't respect each other's opinions and the right to differ (however outrageous it may seem) on taste?

As for J.S. Bach ... it's true that in my mind the man's a greater genius than the GG composing collective ... but I find myself wanting to listen to GG a lot more often

 



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tuxon View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2005 at 02:25
Originally posted by goose goose wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Neo-Prog to Symphonic Prog

I don't know that that's all that ridiculous, neo prog is after all influenced by '70s symph more than it is anything else (it's just not as good )

we shall flog you into liking neo-prog Goose

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2005 at 02:26
Originally posted by Hangedman Hangedman wrote:

hes kidding complex for complexities sake and he LIKES the flower kings, haha, when the flower kings write something original and artful i will throw myself out of a window in shock


go bugger yourself
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2005 at 03:11

Mike wrote:

Quote I think it's funny that everyone here says that it's not appropriate to compare GG and Bach. Yet such inappropriate comparisons are done all over this website and no one takes offence.

I agree that such comparisons are inappropriate.     Bach explored counterpoint in a very methodical and scholarly manner.    Gentle Giant, by contrast, explored and expanded rock music though various means, which included the use of counterpoint.     They each had entirely different aims.

I like classical music a lot, but I have to say that classical composers have been responsible for some of the most boring music ever created on earth.   Even Bach had his less inspired moments.     We shouldn't have to apologize for liking advanced forms of rock music.

 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2005 at 11:37

Originally posted by Man Overboard Man Overboard wrote:

Originally posted by Hangedman Hangedman wrote:

hes kidding complex for complexities sake and he LIKES the flower kings, haha, when the flower kings write something original and artful i will throw myself out of a window in shock


go bugger yourself

, not saying they are bad, just not very interesting

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2005 at 11:44
Originally posted by Hangedman Hangedman wrote:

Originally posted by Man Overboard Man Overboard wrote:

Originally posted by Hangedman Hangedman wrote:

hes kidding complex for complexities sake and he LIKES the flower kings, haha, when the flower kings write something original and artful i will throw myself out of a window in shock


go bugger yourself

, not saying they are bad, just not very interesting

You can say that you don't like something in many ways ... your comment on TFK goes way beyond that. You're making fun of them and people who like them ... and yes, you ARE saying that they're bad.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2005 at 12:29

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

let's be honest: when it comes to counterpoint no-one beats Johann Sebastian. but is it fair to compare Gentle Giant to him? I think not; Gentle Giant are a rock band, after all

Well said!

 

Is this th 'Classical Archives' ????

GG rule

I can't remember what I said
I lost my head.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2005 at 13:31
Gentle Giant kicks f**king ass.
I'll see you on the Darkside of the moon...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2005 at 14:02
Originally posted by Ty1020 Ty1020 wrote:

Originally posted by Tiresias Tiresias wrote:

I understand what he meant though

I don't hold it against him. Their song structure is not in acccordance with fugue patterns in the traditional sense.  The progression of a fugue is supposed to be three voices the first in the root note.  The second voice enters on the 3rd 5th or 6th of the note, as well as the third voice. 

Gentle Giant did this wrong, unfortunately.  My friend has mild OCD


But if everyone followed traditional patterns and didn't try doing their own thing, music would become unbearably stagnant and boring. We wouldn't have prog at all if nobody ever "broke the rules," so to speak, we'd just be listening to the same rehashed textbook musical ideas over and over again.

Well said. This friend probably just didn't like GG's music (which is ok), but had a hard time finding anything wrong with it. Bringing their composing skills down just because they chose a different approach than Bach? For such a musical genius he displays quite some odd views.

Glad you still love them, Tiresias. And TFK PoS and SB were good reccomendations IMO, so maybe the guy deserves a second chance with GG

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2005 at 14:03
I think Bach surely wouldn't have any trouble with some parts of "Think of me with kindness" and "Why not" and I think he even would have loved everything from their debut until Interview.
Right down the line
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2005 at 14:29

Originally posted by Odd24 Odd24 wrote:

I think Bach surely wouldn't have any trouble with some parts of "Think of me with kindness" and "Why not" and I think he even would have loved everything from their debut until Interview.

I think he would be in the band, if they could agree on the wig-issue.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2005 at 15:14
Originally posted by Sir Hogweed Sir Hogweed wrote:

Originally posted by Odd24 Odd24 wrote:

I think Bach surely wouldn't have any trouble with some parts of "Think of me with kindness" and "Why not" and I think he even would have loved everything from their debut until Interview.

I think he would be in the band, if they could agree on the wig-issue.

Oh, come on.  Proggers have worn just about everything else on stage, why not let Bach wear a powdered wig?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2005 at 17:04
Originally posted by tuxon tuxon wrote:

Originally posted by goose goose wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Neo-Prog to Symphonic Prog

I don't know that that's all that ridiculous, neo prog is after all influenced by '70s symph more than it is anything else (it's just not as good )

we shall flog you into liking neo-prog Goose

 

Fishy Marillion are my token neo band, I'm not going any further . It's not that I dislike neo prog in general, I just never hear anything in any other bands that makes me think "wow!"

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2005 at 15:48
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Hangedman Hangedman wrote:

Originally posted by Man Overboard Man Overboard wrote:

Originally posted by Hangedman Hangedman wrote:

hes kidding complex for complexities sake and he LIKES the flower kings, haha, when the flower kings write something original and artful i will throw myself out of a window in shock


go bugger yourself

, not saying they are bad, just not very interesting

You can say that you don't like something in many ways ... your comment on TFK goes way beyond that. You're making fun of them and people who like them ... and yes, you ARE saying that they're bad.

More than anything its a joke, using an extreme exageration of my opinion. If it hurt you at all, Im sorry. Its a kind of humor that I didnt expect anyone to take the wrong way, why i led it up with the lame smiley faces. If i was serious i would have tried to tear the flower kings apart in response to that dont you think?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2005 at 16:49
Yeah... uh... you really can't make fun of a band who recorded In A Glass House.  It's pretty much law.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2005 at 20:07
He sounds like a jerk and the type of conceited man that I could not stand being around. I hate people who put down modern non-orchestral music as music for morons and idiots. They make classical composers like gods and give no one else a chance. Then on top of that- they make you look like a FOOL for even listening to such "commoners" music! Let me tell you, I HATE feeling like an idiot with no taste, and my jerk music teacher made me feel just that way after he put down "Heart of the Sunrise" as teenager music and unrefined! I felt like I was gonna explode! Errr. This is one of my pet peevs indeed! 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2005 at 20:48

Originally posted by Evan1211 Evan1211 wrote:

He sounds like a jerk and the type of conceited man that I could not stand being around. I hate people who put down modern non-orchestral music as music for morons and idiots. They make classical composers like gods and give no one else a chance. Then on top of that- they make you look like a FOOL for even listening to such "commoners" music! Let me tell you, I HATE feeling like an idiot with no taste, and my jerk music teacher made me feel just that way after he put down "Heart of the Sunrise" as teenager music and unrefined! I felt like I was gonna explode! Errr. This is one of my pet peevs indeed! 

And, of course, no Prog fans posses those traits.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2005 at 21:19

Your music teacher is right, in a sense.   Prog rock is indeed a young person's music, and this is coming from someone who still enjoys prog at 40 years of age.

Prog is a youthful, naive, romantic form of music and, for me, that's precisely its charm.    Although it obviously champions good musical technique, prog isn't really concerned about the scholastic aspects of music, and that's a good thing.   If I want to revel in the scholastic side of music, then I listen to classical music.   But a lot of the time I don't want to do that, just as I don't always want to visit libraries and museums all the time.   Sometimes, I want to enjoy the energy and youthfulness of prog (and jazz) instead.  

So I wouldn't pay all that much attention to your teacher, if I were you.   Until classical composers can recreate the moods and atmospheres that prog bands can create, they have no right to diss prog as a genre.    

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2005 at 02:09

Hey guys, remember the term : To every man his own?  Something like that.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2005 at 04:58

OK, GG broke the rules. Naughty them. Slap wrists!

But does it sound good? No, it sounds great! End of argument.

 

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