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darkmatter
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Joined: November 23 2006
Location: New Jersey
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Points: 2760
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Posted: October 27 2007 at 11:25 |
As much as I'd like to see a salary cap in baseball, I think it's too late. There's a massive differential between the highest payroll (Yankees at $200+ mil) and the lowest payroll (Marlins or Devil Rays, I think <$25 mil). I just can't see it happening anytime soon.
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reality
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 318
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Posted: October 27 2007 at 19:11 |
If anybody is saying Boston is a "bought" team needs to look at the stars.
1.Papelbon (a draft choice)
2.Okajima (nabbed him for next to nothing - anybody could have afforded him)
3.Youkilis (strait from the farm system)
4.Pedroia (rookie)
5.Ortiz (got him for nothing - smart business not money)
6.Lowell ( did not want him, got for nothing in the Becket trade)
Etc. Etc. Etc.
My point is that most of the Red Sox were low money projects developed by good coaching and business decisions.
Compare this with the Yankees who just go out and buy players (some from the Red Sox).
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darkmatter
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 23 2006
Location: New Jersey
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Points: 2760
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Posted: October 27 2007 at 20:18 |
OK, but that doesn't change the fact that they spend a huge amount of money. Even though they did get Ortiz cheap, they're paying him much more now ($13 million this year, according to ESPN). Manny Ramirez (one of their stars) is making $17 million, they threw tons of money at J.D. Drew ($14 mil this year, I think $55 mil total for his contract) and he's become a mediocre player on their team. Don't forget how much money they threw at Julio Lugo, $36 mil over 4 years for a player who had a very poor year. And I think they spent around $100 mil on Matsuzaka (including posting fee, which I think blew away the next closest offer). So, no Boston is not a "bought" team in the same way as the Yankees, but you can't ignore the fact that they still have spent a huge amount of money on free agents. (And they've already said they'll make a huge push to get A-Rod if he opts out, so think close to or above $30 mil a year.)
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2005
Location: New Jersey
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Points: 8844
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Posted: October 27 2007 at 21:48 |
reality wrote:
Compare this with the Yankees who just go out and buy players (some from the Red Sox). |
I'd just like to name a few players from the Yankees farm system: Derek Jeter Mariano Rivera Jorge Posada Robinson Cano Melky Cabrerra Jaba Chamberlin Shelly Duncan Ian Kennedy Phil Hughes But of course, everybody knows they BUY all their good players!
Edited by rileydog22 - October 27 2007 at 21:49
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Garion81
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Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
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Points: 4338
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Posted: October 27 2007 at 23:07 |
reality wrote:
If anybody is saying Boston is a "bought" team needs to look at the stars.
1.Papelbon (a draft choice) 2.Okajima (nabbed him for next to nothing - anybody could have afforded him) 3.Youkilis (strait from the farm system) 4.Pedroia (rookie) 5.Ortiz (got him for nothing - smart business not money) 6.Lowell ( did not want him, got for nothing in the Becket trade) Etc. Etc. Etc.
My point is that most of the Red Sox were low money projects developed by good coaching and business decisions.
Compare this with the Yankees who just go out and buy players (some from the Red Sox). |
So what? Every team has players they got like that. The facts are the Red Sox have a payroll of 148 million dollars only outspent by a little by the Yankees and far ahead of the third team.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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darkmatter
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 23 2006
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 2760
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 01:07 |
Well, this hasn't been a very exciting World Series, for the fourth year in a row....
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19557
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 01:18 |
Sadly the dream almost ended, but the last thing you can loose is faith, only a miracle.
Iván
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reality
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 318
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 01:18 |
This has been the most exiting world series since 2004! Stars tanking and rookies taking it to the Rockies. The American league is just stronger than the National league nowadays and this is seen through the Red Sox.
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darkmatter
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 23 2006
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 2760
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 01:20 |
^ You must be a Red Sox fan. None of the last four World Series have been particularly interesting to me, the losing team has won one game.
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moreitsythanyou
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Joined: April 23 2006
Location: NYC
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Points: 11682
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 01:23 |
I wanted the Rockies to win, but knew there was no way. Guess I was right...
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<font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR]
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reality
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2006
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Points: 318
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 01:30 |
moreitsythanyou wrote:
I wanted the Rockies to win, but knew there was no way.Guess I was right...
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Yes you were right. Good for you!
I did not believe any of the Rockies hype, I guess I was right!
No but any Rockies fan should be proud, fix a couple of holes and they are golden. Especially Holiday (or however you spell it) is impressive.
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darkmatter
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 23 2006
Location: New Jersey
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Points: 2760
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 01:35 |
Also keep in mind the eight day layoff the Rockies had. I think the Red Sox are the best team in baseball, but the Rockies lost that momentum they had going prior to the World Series.
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Kid-A
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Joined: October 02 2005
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 613
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 09:47 |
rileydog22 wrote:
Derek Jeter Mariano Rivera Jorge Posada
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All were over 10 years ago
Robinson Cano |
OK I'll give you that one
Melky Cabrerra Jaba Chamberlin Shelly Duncan Ian Kennedy Phil Hughes
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Apart from Jaba Chamberlain who had one half of a great season, none of them have really done a lot yet in the majors, or are the reason the Yankees have been successful. Although admittedly the future is bright there.
Whereas on the Red Sox Pedroia, Youkillis, Pabelbon, Ellsbury at the end of the season and a couple of young starters through the season where the keystones to their success.
Edited by Kid-A - October 28 2007 at 12:44
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reality
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 318
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 19:16 |
Kid-A wrote:
rileydog22 wrote:
Derek JeterMariano RiveraJorge Posada
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All were over 10 years ago
Robinson Cano |
OK I'll give you that one
Melky CabrerraJaba ChamberlinShelly DuncanIan KennedyPhil Hughes |
Apart from Jaba Chamberlain who had one half of a great season, none of them have really done a lot yet in the majors, or are the reason the Yankees have been successful. Although admittedly the future is bright there.
Whereas on the Red Sox Pedroia, Youkillis, Pabelbon, Ellsbury at the end of the season and a couple of young starters through the season where the keystones to their success.
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I agree that is what I was getting at. There should be no excuse for Rockies fans for the Rockies losing than the Red Sox are just a better team, fair and square. If the Red Sox lose tonight then I would say the Rockies were the better team that night. And if they come back and win the series I would admit they are the better team (without the "unfair" excuse).
If money wins championships the Yankees would win it every year. They do not, and will not no matter how many dollars you spend. It is business sense and good coaching with a good farm system that wins championships.
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darkmatter
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 23 2006
Location: New Jersey
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Points: 2760
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 19:30 |
The Red Sox have gotten good players from their farm system, but that doesn't change the fact that their payroll is enormous and the second highest in MLB at $143 million, so they've spent a lot on players from outside of their system.
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 21:26 |
Come on Rockies.... make a series of it...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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darkmatter
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 23 2006
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 2760
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 23:17 |
Well, Ken Rosenthal said A-Rod is opting out of his contract. I heard the deal the Yankees offered was something like 8 years, $250 million. Scott Boras must be the greediest person on the face of the earth....
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rushfan4
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Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
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Points: 66380
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 23:31 |
Can you say Dice-K? Case closed. Roger Clemens, A-Rod, Johnny Damon, etc... Money buys talent and wins championships; plain and simple.
In the NHL, it was fun before the salary cap for us Red Wings fans because we knew that we could count on Mike Ilitch to go out and by the best free agents so the Wings could compete for the championship. The Red Wings were the Yankees of the NHL. Now that there is a salary cap, they are still a good team, mostly with remnants of their championship teams, but when it comes to playoff time they have been kicked off the dance floor pretty quickly in the past couple of years (sort of like the Yankees, but that is another story). Point is that even if noone is watching it anymore, the NHL is far more competitive then baseball can ever be because of the salary cap.
Another rebuttal to the Yankees fan and money buying championships you can still throw ungodly amounts of money at "homegrown" players. Many teams cannot keep their home grown talent once they become free agents because teams like the Yankees and Red Sox can come along and buy them. For the most part the Yankees and Red Sox don't have to worry about teams coming along and taking their talent from them because in most instances they are going to outspend the competing teams.
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TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Baltimore,Md US
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Points: 27802
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 23:39 |
darkmatter wrote:
Well, Ken Rosenthal said A-Rod is opting out of his contract. I heard the deal the Yankees offered was something like 8 years, $250 million. Scott Boras must be the greediest person on the face of the earth.... |
They should call him Choke-Rod,because that is all he does come play off time.
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darkmatter
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 23 2006
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 2760
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Posted: October 28 2007 at 23:46 |
rushfan4 wrote:
Can you say Dice-K? Case closed. Roger Clemens, A-Rod, Johnny Damon, etc... Money buys talent and wins championships; plain and simple.
In the NHL, it was fun before the salary cap for us Red Wings fans because we knew that we could count on Mike Ilitch to go out and by the best free agents so the Wings could compete for the championship. The Red Wings were the Yankees of the NHL. Now that there is a salary cap, they are still a good team, mostly with remnants of their championship teams, but when it comes to playoff time they have been kicked off the dance floor pretty quickly in the past couple of years (sort of like the Yankees, but that is another story). Point is that even if noone is watching it anymore, the NHL is far more competitive then baseball can ever be because of the salary cap.
Another rebuttal to the Yankees fan and money buying championships you can still throw ungodly amounts of money at "homegrown" players. Many teams cannot keep their home grown talent once they become free agents because teams like the Yankees and Red Sox can come along and buy them. For the most part the Yankees and Red Sox don't have to worry about teams coming along and taking their talent from them because in most instances they are going to outspend the competing teams. |
Absolutely true about the Yankees and Red Sox. They have the money to throw at players, whether they be home grown or outside of the organization, while other teams in the AL East (and for the most part, the rest of MLB) do not. I can't imagine when the other teams will really be in contention again, especially Baltimore and Tampa Bay. Toronto is getting a little closer, but they're still not a great team.
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