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Topic ClosedWas prog actually popular in the 70s??
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cstack3 View Drop Down
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Points: 7412 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2013 at 01:23
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:


As far as Prog and the American South, numerous big prog artists/acts came out of the southern states in the 1970s....Captain Beyond, Dixie Dregs, and Jaco Pastorius all come to mind immediately.  Few guitarists rise to the level of Steve Morse from the Dregs. 

My late friend Michael Hedges was from Oklahoma, which is the state just north of Texas.  The premier American symphonic band, Glass Hammer, hails from Tennessee, which is certainly a Dixie state!  

I cannot think of any Texas prog bands off the top of my head, but they certainly had them, as Texas was the only place with any money during those years because of their oil wealth.  Dallas, Austin and Houston all have very vibrant music scenes, although Texas rock has tended to be very blues-centered.  The father of modern jazz electric guitar, Charlie Christian, hailed from Texas.   More to follow...

 
I have poked the hornet's nest Ouch
 
I'm not questioning the musical heritage of Texas. (Just look to Janice or SRV for that - or the modern legacy that is SXSW). Nor am I saying that no Prog artists hailed from there or any of the Southern states - even if you could list 10 or 20 there would be far far more that were not Prog - for every Starcastle you'd find 100s of other bands that were not inspired by Prog at all. The popularity of any genre can be gauged not just by who buys the albums, but also by the live music scene it supports, ie local Prog bands that sprout up in the area.

The Mars Volta was an American progressive rock band from El Paso, Texas, formed in 2001.
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2013 at 05:25
Wasn't particularly popular save for a  select few bands. 
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2013 at 07:21
Grunge wasn't popular save for a few select bands, Punk wasn't popular save for a few select bands, Glam wasn't popular save for a few select bands, Brit Pop wasn't popular save for a few select bands, Pscyh Pop wasn't popular save for a few select bands... when you look at the vast number of classical composers who ever composed a symphony and then look at those that most people can actually name you could even say that Classical Music wasn't popular save for a few select composers ("We asked 100 people to name a Classical Baroque composer, our survey said: Bach.... erm.... ah.... and... erm... Mozart? err... I mean Vivaldi?" Embarrassed)
 
...I'm beinging to wonder what it is you guys actually think constitutes "popularity".
What?
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Points: 10841 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2013 at 07:40
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

 
...I'm beinging to wonder what it is you guys actually think constitutes "popularity".



Over 100 million records sold and songs turned into memes, I guess.

That, or they just want to believe being an opressed cultural minority.
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2013 at 07:45
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Grunge wasn't popular save for a few select bands, Punk wasn't popular save for a few select bands, Glam wasn't popular save for a few select bands, Brit Pop wasn't popular save for a few select bands, Pscyh Pop wasn't popular save for a few select bands... when you look at the vast number of classical composers who ever composed a symphony and then look at those that most people can actually name you could even say that Classical Music wasn't popular save for a few select composers ("We asked 100 people to name a Classical Baroque composer, our survey said: Bach.... erm.... ah.... and... erm... Mozart? err... I mean Vivaldi?" Embarrassed)
 
...I'm beinging to wonder what it is you guys actually think constitutes "popularity".

Well exactly. You finished my point. 
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cstack3 View Drop Down
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Points: 7412 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2013 at 16:46
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

 
...I'm beinging to wonder what it is you guys actually think constitutes "popularity".

In terms of the 1970's era, I'd define that as regular or repeated airplay on "radio" (how passe!) and appearances on popular music TV shows and eventually video programming such as MTV.

Bands that meet my definition include Yes, ELP, Flash, Focus, Mahavishnu Orchestra, King Crimson, Genesis, and several others.  Prog was pretty much everywhere from 1971 until disco came along.  

Interestingly, several bands were popular on the TV circuit.  I used to see Mahavishnu Orchestra regularly on "Don Kirschner's Rock Concert" show in the States, and Genesis & King Crimson appeared on the popular "Midnight Special."  

Prog acts were often interspersed with pop music acts (Bee Gees introduced KC on "Midnight Special"!), soul etc.  

Disco seemed to spell the beginning of the end for prog, and punk really put the hammer down.  i think folks wanted to get up and dance vs. sit around in a dark, smoke-filled room and listen to Bob Fripp etc. 

Here, listen to the Bee Gees give a rather bizarre welcome to KC on Midnight Special!  



Edited by cstack3 - August 15 2013 at 16:46
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Points: 841 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2013 at 17:14
I think that bizarre welcome is rather symptomatic for the age. A smart ass guy is trying to be funny, but has no idea about
the artist or his/her music.
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Points: 7865 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2013 at 18:37
The BeeGees can eat a big one as far as I'm concerned. The members of Kansas have more talent in their pinky-fingers then the Beegee's entire being. Just my opinion. Hope I didn't offend any disco lovers lol
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Points: 10841 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2013 at 18:41
THE BEE GEES WERE NOT DISC, FOR HELL'S SAKE!!! Angry



They played Urban Modern R'n'B.
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Points: 841 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2013 at 19:18
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

The BeeGees can eat a big one as far as I'm concerned. The members of Kansas have more talent in their pinky-fingers then the Beegee's entire being. Just my opinion. Hope I didn't offend any disco lovers lol


Now now, I bet Kansas would sacrifice all of their fingers in exchange for BeeGees' talent to create good melodies.
I'm not a disco lover in particular but I recognize a good song when I hear one and Massachusets and To Love Somebody are good examples of the genre.
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Points: 12813 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2013 at 21:15
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

The BeeGees can eat a big one as far as I'm concerned. The members of Kansas have more talent in their pinky-fingers then the Beegee's entire being. Just my opinion. Hope I didn't offend any disco lovers lol


Oh, that "Stayin' Alive" and really ruined the Bee Gees reputation. Though I'm sure they apreciate the loads of $$$ and fame that song gave them, I have read they or some of them weren't particularly happy about ending up labeled as disco and recognized for that song, because that's not what they were all about, it was just one short phase of their career. I guess it's something similar to Yes with "Owner of a Lonely Heart" and Pink Floyd with "Another Brick in the Wall 2".
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Points: 170 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2013 at 23:02
I Started A Joke

one of the signature songs of the late 60's

The disco stuff blew, like all disco.
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Points: 4596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2013 at 23:33
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Ermm which is probably why there are no 70s Prog bands from Southern Texas.... and so very few from the USA.

FYI:  Here's a poll I started a while back specifically about little known 70's US prog bands...and no, I don't think any of them are from south Texas Wink

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=94116 
QED
 
Any of those from Southern Texas? (or Texas? or any of the Southern states?)

Actually, 3 of them were from the US South.  Lift was from New Orleans, Babylon from Florida and I'm pretty sure Easter Island was from Kentucky.  As for the others mentioned in the poll, Mirthrandir and Fireballet were from New Jersey, Cathedral from Massachusetts, Netherworld from the SF Bay Area, Pentwater was from Chicago, and I'm pretty sure Starcastle was from Indiana.  Don't know about Shadowfax, Yezda Urfa, or others mentioned in the poll comments like Ethos and Happy the Man.

Still none from Texas Wink

Nein.  Starcastle were from Champaign, Illinois.  I knew Starcastle....Starcastle were friends of mine...and you, sir, are no Starcastle!  LOL


Illinois, Indiana, what's the difference?  It's a far away state in the Midwest that starts with I LOL
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Points: 7412 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2013 at 01:11
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Ermm which is probably why there are no 70s Prog bands from Southern Texas.... and so very few from the USA.

FYI:  Here's a poll I started a while back specifically about little known 70's US prog bands...and no, I don't think any of them are from south Texas Wink

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=94116 
QED
 
Any of those from Southern Texas? (or Texas? or any of the Southern states?)

Actually, 3 of them were from the US South.  Lift was from New Orleans, Babylon from Florida and I'm pretty sure Easter Island was from Kentucky.  As for the others mentioned in the poll, Mirthrandir and Fireballet were from New Jersey, Cathedral from Massachusetts, Netherworld from the SF Bay Area, Pentwater was from Chicago, and I'm pretty sure Starcastle was from Indiana.  Don't know about Shadowfax, Yezda Urfa, or others mentioned in the poll comments like Ethos and Happy the Man.

Still none from Texas Wink

Nein.  Starcastle were from Champaign, Illinois.  I knew Starcastle....Starcastle were friends of mine...and you, sir, are no Starcastle!  LOL


Illinois, Indiana, what's the difference?  It's a far away state in the Midwest that starts with I LOL

Could you turn down your Nirvana 8-track?  I can't hear you.....
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The.Crimson.King View Drop Down
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Points: 4596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2013 at 01:14
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Ermm which is probably why there are no 70s Prog bands from Southern Texas.... and so very few from the USA.

FYI:  Here's a poll I started a while back specifically about little known 70's US prog bands...and no, I don't think any of them are from south Texas Wink

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=94116 
QED
 
Any of those from Southern Texas? (or Texas? or any of the Southern states?)

Actually, 3 of them were from the US South.  Lift was from New Orleans, Babylon from Florida and I'm pretty sure Easter Island was from Kentucky.  As for the others mentioned in the poll, Mirthrandir and Fireballet were from New Jersey, Cathedral from Massachusetts, Netherworld from the SF Bay Area, Pentwater was from Chicago, and I'm pretty sure Starcastle was from Indiana.  Don't know about Shadowfax, Yezda Urfa, or others mentioned in the poll comments like Ethos and Happy the Man.

Still none from Texas Wink

Nein.  Starcastle were from Champaign, Illinois.  I knew Starcastle....Starcastle were friends of mine...and you, sir, are no Starcastle!  LOL


Illinois, Indiana, what's the difference?  It's a far away state in the Midwest that starts with I LOL

Could you turn down your Nirvana 8-track?  I can't hear you.....

That's not Nirvana, it's Hole Wink
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Points: 29438 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2013 at 03:01
Originally posted by geneyesontle geneyesontle wrote:

Yes, Emerson Lake & Palmer, Jethro Tull and Pink Floyd were very popular. Genesis were beginning to be popular and King Crimson were always an underground band. That's for the big 6 of prog. Now, for bands like Gentle Giant, Van Der Graaf Generator and Camel, this was more difficult. They are cult bands.

I think of all prog bands as 'cult bands' its just that some managed their affairs better than others and were able to take their chance when it presented itself. If Pink Floyd hadn't made Dark Side Of The Moon then someone else would have I reckon. It now seems almost an obvious idea but it was Waters and co that thought of it first. Other bands like VDGG and Gentle Giant were content to stay true to themselves. Camel are an interesting case as they sold a fair number of albums playing in my eyes a mellow brand of prog.Nice but hardly challenging. They found a middle way between commercialism and artistic integrity.
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Points: 11420 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2013 at 10:17
Tarkus was the number one selling album in the UK 1971 so why is the question even being asked? Of course it was popular, whether any particular genre of music deserves to hold centre stage of the zeitgeist is another matter.....
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Points: 7412 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2013 at 12:51
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Ermm which is probably why there are no 70s Prog bands from Southern Texas.... and so very few from the USA.

FYI:  Here's a poll I started a while back specifically about little known 70's US prog bands...and no, I don't think any of them are from south Texas Wink

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=94116 
QED
 
Any of those from Southern Texas? (or Texas? or any of the Southern states?)

Actually, 3 of them were from the US South.  Lift was from New Orleans, Babylon from Florida and I'm pretty sure Easter Island was from Kentucky.  As for the others mentioned in the poll, Mirthrandir and Fireballet were from New Jersey, Cathedral from Massachusetts, Netherworld from the SF Bay Area, Pentwater was from Chicago, and I'm pretty sure Starcastle was from Indiana.  Don't know about Shadowfax, Yezda Urfa, or others mentioned in the poll comments like Ethos and Happy the Man.

Still none from Texas Wink

Nein.  Starcastle were from Champaign, Illinois.  I knew Starcastle....Starcastle were friends of mine...and you, sir, are no Starcastle!  LOL


Illinois, Indiana, what's the difference?  It's a far away state in the Midwest that starts with I LOL

Could you turn down your Nirvana 8-track?  I can't hear you.....

That's not Nirvana, it's Hole Wink

Well, that's all right then!  I am secretly a grunge fan, and a big admirer of Kim Thayill of Soundgarden!  We play the same model six-string electric guitar (Guild S-100).   Some grunge was better than others - I never much liked Nirvana, but Pearl Jam had some good stuff.  I wish the energy of Seattle grunge had collided with prog! 
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The.Crimson.King View Drop Down
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Points: 4596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2013 at 14:40
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Ermm which is probably why there are no 70s Prog bands from Southern Texas.... and so very few from the USA.

FYI:  Here's a poll I started a while back specifically about little known 70's US prog bands...and no, I don't think any of them are from south Texas Wink

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=94116 
QED
 
Any of those from Southern Texas? (or Texas? or any of the Southern states?)

Actually, 3 of them were from the US South.  Lift was from New Orleans, Babylon from Florida and I'm pretty sure Easter Island was from Kentucky.  As for the others mentioned in the poll, Mirthrandir and Fireballet were from New Jersey, Cathedral from Massachusetts, Netherworld from the SF Bay Area, Pentwater was from Chicago, and I'm pretty sure Starcastle was from Indiana.  Don't know about Shadowfax, Yezda Urfa, or others mentioned in the poll comments like Ethos and Happy the Man.

Still none from Texas Wink

Nein.  Starcastle were from Champaign, Illinois.  I knew Starcastle....Starcastle were friends of mine...and you, sir, are no Starcastle!  LOL


Illinois, Indiana, what's the difference?  It's a far away state in the Midwest that starts with I LOL

Could you turn down your Nirvana 8-track?  I can't hear you.....

That's not Nirvana, it's Hole Wink

Well, that's all right then!  I am secretly a grunge fan, and a big admirer of Kim Thayill of Soundgarden!  We play the same model six-string electric guitar (Guild S-100).   Some grunge was better than others - I never much liked Nirvana, but Pearl Jam had some good stuff.  I wish the energy of Seattle grunge had collided with prog! 

I'm with you...Nirvana never clicked for me, though I always liked Pearl Jam's "Ten" and the first three Hole albums - though I'm not sure whether they're considered grunge, alternative, or riot grrrrrl LOL
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Points: 18064 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2013 at 17:32
Hi,
 
It's just sad to see all this trashing going around ... music was no more, or less, popular NOW, than it was THEN, or vice versa!
 
It was about the same!
 
And if you think that some of these bands, did not sell, or were not, it was because you had your head in the sand, and were living in Podunk, Moon House, or Peeweeneedles in Mars Land.
 
The lack of appreciation or respect for a time and place ... people were not stupid!
 
Half the folks in PA wouldn't have bothered!


Edited by moshkito - August 17 2013 at 17:39
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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