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Topic ClosedHas the flame finally gone out?

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Argonaught View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 17:25
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

 I guess that's my problem, I want to be blown away and it just ain't happening.

I do occasionally get blown away, but I have also learned to settle for quiet enjoyment of beautiful things.

.. drifting along with the gentle flow of the Endless River, even as I type .. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 17:18
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Another issue for some, could be that some of the newer bands are more crossover than say full prog as in the 70-90s.....They hit a wider sweet spot


as well as being ..ahem.. simply being more progressive and bringing in wider styles and influences rather than the same old sh*t man.  Crossover has become a catch phrase of sorts for progressive rock which has made the break with the dried up, played out, stylistic norms of 70's prog rock. God bless them....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 17:05
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Another issue for some, could be that some of the newer bands are more crossover than say full prog as in the 70-90s.....They hit a wider sweet spot


Which is a diluted form of Prog? I never really got the 'Crossover' moniker. What are they crossing over to...or from? When you cross over you move from one realm to another thereby leaving the realm you were in. I miss being really swept off my feet by music. Most of the bands that get discussed here as the 'New Wave' of prog (see what I did thereWink) are good and I enjoy many of them. But in all honesty I personally can't say they're groundbreaking. I guess that's my problem, I want to be blown away and it just ain't happening.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 16:58
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Power To Believe is a great album so King Crimson can safely be left out of this hypothesis.( however read my later comments)

ELP's last album was crap but then they were virtually crippled and trying to churn out an album to save a dying record company ( they might just as well as bombed it for the good it did). Their last brilliant album anyway was 1973's Brain Salad Surgery

Yes - Relayer was the last time they made a significant progressive rock statement imo although there are plenty of good albums that followed and I do like the most recent.

Genesis and the descent into pop music has been discussed to death but then they stopped being a proper working band 20 years ago.

Jethro Tull is the one band of the big five I don't own much of. I'm guessing though that they haven't made anything as good as say Thick and A Brick or A Passion Play since those albums. They found massive success in the USA in the eighties although I gather a lot of it was not proggy . The recent stuff by ian Anderson I do own and its very good but not exactly earth shattering.

Other than KC the big five were on slippery slope from about 1975 onwards. King Crimson has bucked the trend by to all intents and purposes being an ongoing project of Robert Fripp rather than a band in any traditional way. A band has to have an ongoing collaboration of a core membership. King Criimson barely had that at all. Fripp decides what he wanted to to do and then recruites accordingly. Nothing wrong with that and avoids the possibility of lurching head first into self parody which often happens to bands that have been around for thousand of years.


Would like to say Jethro Tull's output was solid throughout the rest of the decade. They started losing it after the collapse of the lineup in 1980. Good stuff here and there since but not consistent. Agreed with the other four however, except the "slippery slope" statement at 1975. Genesis and Tull particularly were keeping up the quality control. Anyway...

If you're expecting anything really good from the big five, hate to break it to you but I would argue the flame went out sometime in the 80s... every band has a period of solid output and starts to fall off completely or occasionally put out something decent padded by a bunch of junk (Jethro Tull and Yes)


Edited by fudgenuts64 - November 10 2014 at 16:59
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 16:56
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

There is plenty of great progressive music begging to be heard outside the "Big Five". If we want the flame of non-mainstream music to survive, we must support the newer bands and artists, and stop pining for what has been.  No one is going to take those Seventies masterpieces away from us: now it is time to give the newcomers (many of whom are not so new any longer) a chance.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 16:49
The flame has only gone out if you are simply one of those prog listeners who refuse to listen to anything after the early 80's, and who clutch onto only a core group of a few artists who haven't been relevant for decades now.

There's too many good modern (and after 80's) artists and albums throughout a variety of different styles offering superb progressive-related music that are carrying on the fine tradition of the genre, and there's still been plenty of enjoyable albums from `the big five' even if they're not challenging or complex anymore in the way that we would like.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 16:27
Another issue for some, could be that some of the newer bands are more crossover than say full prog as in the 70-90s.....They hit a wider sweet spot
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 16:17
ALL of the legacy groups dropped the torch in the '80's.  Fortunately there were bands around to pick it back up.  And then most of them dropped the a decade or two later and yet other groups picked it up.  The real question is how long will progressive rock survive as a genre.  Some styles (symphonic would be a good example) are definitely losing the interest of listeners.  Others are not yet so anemic.  I would not bet on progressive rock lasting forever, although if medical science advances quickly enough you can expect to see Yes at your local casino every two or three years for the rest of your lifetime.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 16:17
^ Shocked
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 16:15

Has the flame finally gone out?

Not for Magma.


I never considered Pink Floyd as part of the big 5.

 Yes

Genesis

Gentle Giant

King Crimson

ELP

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 16:07
Absolutely, and sadly, the flame is gone. Certainly, the "prog genre" is full of live: a lot of bands from a great variety of countries, so many albums with great sound, awesome production and enjoyable live performances. All that is true. BUT... the "flame", the kind of innovative spirit, the gorgeous attitude of the seventies' bands is definitely gone. For a years I am looking for an album that give me a full and kinda spiritual experience like Close to the Edge, Dark Side or Selling England. No way man. The genre is alive but the historical moment with creativity and experimentation on top, with never-listened-music bands is gone for me, and the signal is not necessarily the low-rating albums of the "big 5". Nothing new is coming from the prog bands of our days. Great albums, yes, but nothing deeply stunning like before, IMHO. Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 15:53
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

I have never felt so positive about the future of great progressive rock music. 2014 has energised me more than most previous years, and this in nearly 40 years now of listening and buying.

There is some great music out there. There is some great new music out there.

Whether we like it, or not, the torch has passed to new generations, and, you know what? They are doing mighty fine, thank you very much.


IndeedClap! Anyone who was there on Saturday at the Orion Studios in Baltimore was treated to a quartet of incredible bands, each very different from the other, but each one of them flying the flag of modern progressive music without the need to indulge in nostalgia trips. It is up to us to keep that flame burning by supporting the modern scene.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 15:47
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

I have never felt so positive about the future of great progressive rock music. 2014 has energised me more than most previous years, and this in nearly 40 years now of listening and buying.

There is some great music out there. There is some great new music out there.

Whether we like it, or not, the torch has passed to new generations, and, you know what? They are doing mighty fine, thank you very much.
Hear. Hear. A toast to Laz! Beer A real classy gent!  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 15:41
I have never felt so positive about the future of great progressive rock music. 2014 has energised me more than most previous years, and this in nearly 40 years now of listening and buying.

There is some great music out there. There is some great new music out there.

Whether we like it, or not, the torch has passed to new generations, and, you know what? They are doing mighty fine, thank you very much.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 15:36
^Listened to Winery Dogs today. I know it's not prog but newer bands like this keep me going! And WDs are great! Clap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 15:34
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

People who are waiting for new master pieces of the old are regressing rather than progressing probably. Let's look at what else is out there - there are more than enough bands that deserve our attention. Thing of Edensong, Fright Pig, Corvus Stone, Edison's Children, and many many more....


Attention? Sure.
Loyalty? Not so sure.

You decide where your loyalty lies, that's all up to you. Mine lies with good or great (prog and non-prog) musicians, of all ages.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 15:32
Everyone knew the Pink Floyd album was gonna be all instrumental, 'cept for one song. Sure I was endlessly waiting for this one to come out, any PF is good. I was not expecting another WYWH, Animals or Ummagumma..simply the continuation of Division Bell sessions and their final output as Pink Floyd. The internet has created too much hype with releases now a days.
As far as some of the other classic progressive rock bands or Big 5...the flame died a long time ago with ELP, Yes, KC, Genesis. I cannot imagine bands like this continuing to produce as they did in the 70's, as we know the relationship issues killed most of these bands and broke them up.
 
Time for the new bands, say 2000s forward, to keep the fire burning. There are oodles of bands out there, but I fear most will not be together for 40yrs as the grandpas have been.....a few albums and they are done, as this wonderful music business world we live in now is not conducive to a long career path, without having to supplement with something else.
 
The last behemoth, Rush, probably has a couple big tours left in them and a few more albums and then they too will retire and or concentrate on smaller projects, hopefully helping newer artists succeed in carrying the torch forward.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 15:30
The Power to Believe is my favorite KC album, but I don't think we're going to hear something like this again, so I thought it was a great swan song from KC and personally I hope it stays that way. Shocked  But if not, then good for fans looking for something new from them.
 
Because, I feel it's time to move on. There's a lot of great Prog metal going around now like POS Heart.
 
So the flame is not out. New candles have been lit. Tongue


Edited by SteveG - November 10 2014 at 15:40
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 15:30
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Power To Believe is a great album so King Crimson can safely be left out of this hypothesis.( however read my later comments)

Other than KC the big five were on slippery slope from about 1975 onwards. King Crimson has bucked the trend by to all intents and purposes being an ongoing project of Robert Fripp rather than a band in any traditional way. A band has to have an ongoing collaboration of a core membership. King Criimson barely had that at all. Fripp decides what he wanted to to do and then recruites accordingly. Nothing wrong with that and avoids the possibility of lurching head first into self parody which often happens to bands that have been around for thousand of years.



I agree, KC is the exception and has successfully bucked the trend. But, as mentioned above KC really isn't a band in the traditional sense but is very much an idiosyncratic entity governed by the whims of one Mr. Fripp.

I was fortunate enough to see KC last month in San Francisco. Fantastic show that while featuring music from their classic era, was definitely not a greatest hits tour. Fripp has hinted that in addition to a European leg of the tour there will be a new studio offering. I for one, am looking forward to new music from this version of KC.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 15:14
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

There is plenty of great progressive music begging to be heard outside the "Big Five". If we want the flame of non-mainstream music to survive, we must support the newer bands and artists, and stop pining for what has been.  No one is going to take those Seventies masterpieces away from us: now it is time to give the newcomers (many of whom are not so new any longer) a chance.


So if they aren't new any longer, wouldn't that mean they've had their chance and again come up short. Or is it that our expectations for "Great music" far outweighs the potential of the available contributors? Or put another way, are the current 'new' bands you're thinking of trying too hard to be progressive?


I believe I may have put it in the wrong way. When I said that many newcomers are not new any longer, I meant that they have been around for quite a long time, but their first efforts were released at a moment when interest in progressive music (unlike today) was very much at a low ebb.

As to trying too hard to be progressive, it depends on your personal idea of what progressive rock should be like. If you believe that prog should sound like the Big Five and their Seventies contemporaries, then you may not have a lot of time for those new acts that try to do something different from that template. In my personal opinion, however, this is where the future of the genre lies.
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