Has the flame finally gone out?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=100269
Printed Date: November 26 2024 at 22:34
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Has the flame finally gone out?
Posted By: JD
Subject: Has the flame finally gone out?
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 14:25
|
With the recent release of the long awaited Pnk Floyd album we once again see that our heroes have fallen a little flat. As I look back at the last few releases from what has become roughly known as the big 5, I see them garnering lower and lower ratings. From ELP to Yes to King Crimson, none seem to be meeting their fan expectations. While a few new bands certainly try to capture the essence of "Progressive" music, our founding fathers have withered. So I ask... Has the flame carried by the innovators of this very divisive genre finally gone out? ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Replies:
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 14:30
|
Thomas Jefferson is dead, but Democracy lives on. Kind of. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 14:39
|
The Power to Believe has a rating of 3.97 - i don't see that as bad. But all the symphonic artists are putting out bad music - so kinda. ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 14:41
|
There is plenty of great progressive music begging to be heard outside the "Big Five". If we want the flame of non-mainstream music to survive, we must support the newer bands and artists, and stop pining for what has been. No one is going to take those Seventies masterpieces away from us: now it is time to give the newcomers (many of whom are not so new any longer) a chance. |
Posted By: Rivertree
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 14:53
^indeed, dont' hang on too much on those hyped new albums, there are a lot of new bands on the scene where you can dig enough gems  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Rivertree" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 14:53
|
Power To Believe is a great album so King Crimson can safely be left out of this hypothesis.( however read my later comments) ELP's last album was crap but then they were virtually crippled and trying to churn out an album to save a dying record company ( they might just as well as bombed it for the good it did). Their last brilliant album anyway was 1973's Brain Salad Surgery Yes - Relayer was the last time they made a significant progressive rock statement imo although there are plenty of good albums that followed and I do like the most recent. Genesis and the descent into pop music has been discussed to death but then they stopped being a proper working band 20 years ago. Jethro Tull is the one band of the big five I don't own much of. I'm guessing though that they haven't made anything as good as say Thick and A Brick or A Passion Play since those albums. They found massive success in the USA in the eighties although I gather a lot of it was not proggy . The recent stuff by ian Anderson I do own and its very good but not exactly earth shattering. Other than KC the big five were on slippery slope from about 1975 onwards. King Crimson has bucked the trend by to all intents and purposes being an ongoing project of Robert Fripp rather than a band in any traditional way. A band has to have an ongoing collaboration of a core membership. King Criimson barely had that at all. Fripp decides what he wanted to to do and then recruites accordingly. Nothing wrong with that and avoids the possibility of lurching head first into self parody which often happens to bands that have been around for thousand of years. |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 14:57
So if they aren't new any longer, wouldn't that mean they've had their chance and again come up short. Or is it that our expectations for "Great music" far outweighs the potential of the available contributors? Or put another way, are the current 'new' bands you're thinking of trying too hard to be progressive? ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Raff wrote:Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 15:02
|
People who are waiting for new master pieces of the old are regressing rather than progressing probably. Let's look at what else is out there - there are more than enough bands that deserve our attention. Thing of Edensong, Fright Pig, Corvus Stone, Edison's Children, and many many more.... ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 15:03
The Power to Believe may be an anomaly, the previous three albums and the one after only rate around a 3.5. I guess that was the measure I was using in my opening statement, the mediocre ratings of between 2.5 - 3.5 of recent releases as compared to the 4 plus we get on the most highly recognized 'Big 5' output. Right or wrong, that's what made me ask the question. ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 15:04
Attention? Sure. Loyalty? Not so sure. ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 15:04
If we count "the flame" as the last remaining artistic worth of the so-called Big Five, then yes, it's probably fizzling out about now (or if we're being less charitable, it fizzled out by 1980), with the possible exception of King Crimson. But if we think of "the flame" as the ongoing tradition of progressive rock, then I agree with others above that there are scores of bands with plenty more to offer - and not just in the sense of rehashing the classic prog styles, I mean really going out there and ripping it up. Some of them are so progressive they don't even belong on this site, lol.  ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 15:06
Exactly what I was going to say, albeit I was going to be much more succinct about it. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 15:07
Right on Steve. I'm not concerned that more recent Yes releases might get poor ratings - to echo Raff, no one is confiscating my copies of Tales or Relayer, I can stick with the music that made the band great, while focusing on great music that is being made by (relatively) current (younger, newer) artists. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 15:14
I believe I may have put it in the wrong way. When I said that many newcomers are not new any longer, I meant that they have been around for quite a long time, but their first efforts were released at a moment when interest in progressive music (unlike today) was very much at a low ebb. As to trying too hard to be progressive, it depends on your personal idea of what progressive rock should be like. If you believe that prog should sound like the Big Five and their Seventies contemporaries, then you may not have a lot of time for those new acts that try to do something different from that template. In my personal opinion, however, this is where the future of the genre lies. |
Posted By: tboyd1802
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 15:30
I agree, KC is the exception and has successfully bucked the trend. But, as mentioned above KC really isn't a band in the traditional sense but is very much an idiosyncratic entity governed by the whims of one Mr. Fripp. I was fortunate enough to see KC last month in San Francisco. Fantastic show that while featuring music from their classic era, was definitely not a greatest hits tour. Fripp has hinted that in addition to a European leg of the tour there will be a new studio offering. I for one, am looking forward to new music from this version of KC.
|
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 15:30
The Power to Believe is my favorite KC album, but I don't think we're going to hear something like this again, so I thought it was a great swan song from KC and personally I hope it stays that way.  But if not, then good for fans looking for something new from them.Because, I feel it's time to move on. There's a lot of great Prog metal going around now like POS  .So the flame is not out. New candles have been lit.
 |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 15:32
|
Everyone knew the Pink Floyd album was gonna be all instrumental, 'cept for one song. Sure I was endlessly waiting for this one to come out, any PF is good. I was not expecting another WYWH, Animals or Ummagumma..simply the continuation of Division Bell sessions and their final output as Pink Floyd. The internet has created too much hype with releases now a days. As far as some of the other classic progressive rock bands or Big 5...the flame died a long time ago with ELP, Yes, KC, Genesis. I cannot imagine bands like this continuing to produce as they did in the 70's, as we know the relationship issues killed most of these bands and broke them up. Time for the new bands, say 2000s forward, to keep the fire burning. There are oodles of bands out there, but I fear most will not be together for 40yrs as the grandpas have been.....a few albums and they are done, as this wonderful music business world we live in now is not conducive to a long career path, without having to supplement with something else. The last behemoth, Rush, probably has a couple big tours left in them and a few more albums and then they too will retire and or concentrate on smaller projects, hopefully helping newer artists succeed in carrying the torch forward. -------------   
|
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 15:34
You decide where your loyalty lies, that's all up to you. Mine lies with good or great (prog and non-prog) musicians, of all ages. ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 15:36
^Listened to Winery Dogs today. I know it's not prog but newer bands like this keep me going! And WDs are great!  ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 15:41
|
I have never felt so positive about the future of great progressive rock music. 2014 has energised me more than most previous years, and this in nearly 40 years now of listening and buying. There is some great music out there. There is some great new music out there. Whether we like it, or not, the torch has passed to new generations, and, you know what? They are doing mighty fine, thank you very much. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 15:47
 A real classy gent! ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 15:53
Indeed ! Anyone who was there on Saturday at the Orion Studios in Baltimore was treated to a quartet of incredible bands, each very different from the other, but each one of them flying the flag of modern progressive music without the need to indulge in nostalgia trips. It is up to us to keep that flame burning by supporting the modern scene. |
Posted By: yuribujuri
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 16:07
|
Absolutely, and sadly, the flame is gone. Certainly, the "prog genre" is full of live: a lot of bands from a great variety of countries, so many albums with great sound, awesome production and enjoyable live performances. All that is true. BUT... the "flame", the kind of innovative spirit, the gorgeous attitude of the seventies' bands is definitely gone. For a years I am looking for an album that give me a full and kinda spiritual experience like Close to the Edge, Dark Side or Selling England. No way man. The genre is alive but the historical moment with creativity and experimentation on top, with never-listened-music bands is gone for me, and the signal is not necessarily the low-rating albums of the "big 5". Nothing new is coming from the prog bands of our days. Great albums, yes, but nothing deeply stunning like before, IMHO. |
Posted By: CosmicVibration
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 16:15
|
Has the flame finally gone out? Not for Magma. I never considered Pink Floyd as part of the big 5. Yes Genesis Gentle Giant King Crimson ELP |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 16:17
|
^ ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 16:17
|
ALL of the legacy groups dropped the torch in the '80's. Fortunately there were bands around to pick it back up. And then most of them dropped the a decade or two later and yet other groups picked it up. The real question is how long will progressive rock survive as a genre. Some styles (symphonic would be a good example) are definitely losing the interest of listeners. Others are not yet so anemic. I would not bet on progressive rock lasting forever, although if medical science advances quickly enough you can expect to see Yes at your local casino every two or three years for the rest of your lifetime. ------------- 
|
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 16:27
|
Another issue for some, could be that some of the newer bands are more crossover than say full prog as in the 70-90s.....They hit a wider sweet spot -------------
|
Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 16:49
|
The flame has only gone out if you are simply one of those prog listeners who refuse to listen to anything after the early 80's, and who clutch onto only a core group of a few artists who haven't been relevant for decades now. There's too many good modern (and after 80's) artists and albums throughout a variety of different styles offering superb progressive-related music that are carrying on the fine tradition of the genre, and there's still been plenty of enjoyable albums from `the big five' even if they're not challenging or complex anymore in the way that we would like. |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 16:56
So much good music out there, so little time...... ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: fudgenuts64
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 16:58
Would like to say Jethro Tull's output was solid throughout the rest of the decade. They started losing it after the collapse of the lineup in 1980. Good stuff here and there since but not consistent. Agreed with the other four however, except the "slippery slope" statement at 1975. Genesis and Tull particularly were keeping up the quality control. Anyway... If you're expecting anything really good from the big five, hate to break it to you but I would argue the flame went out sometime in the 80s... every band has a period of solid output and starts to fall off completely or occasionally put out something decent padded by a bunch of junk (Jethro Tull and Yes)
------------- 
|
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 17:05
Which is a diluted form of Prog? I never really got the 'Crossover' moniker. What are they crossing over to...or from? When you cross over you move from one realm to another thereby leaving the realm you were in. I miss being really swept off my feet by music. Most of the bands that get discussed here as the 'New Wave' of prog (see what I did there  ) are good and I enjoy many of them. But in all honesty I personally can't say they're groundbreaking. I guess that's my problem, I want to be blown away and it just ain't happening.------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 17:18
as well as being ..ahem.. simply being more progressive and bringing in wider styles and influences rather than the same old sh*t man. Crossover has become a catch phrase of sorts for progressive rock which has made the break with the dried up, played out, stylistic norms of 70's prog rock. God bless them.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Argonaught
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 17:25
I do occasionally get blown away, but I have also learned to settle for quiet enjoyment of beautiful things. .. drifting along with the gentle flow of the Endless River, even as I type ..
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 17:28
nice first post. Welcome to the forum. However if I may say, I think you mistake your fond memories and nostalgia for the lack of creativity and experimentation today. It is out there, it is simply more underground than 70's prog rock ever was. And yes wiser bands see that prog rock is dead genre..thus the lack of identifing with it, the lack of trying to appeal to the conservative and backwards looking fans of it, the key to survival now is to simply make great music and let the listener today make it what they will. As one of my favorite stories goes... we went to see a concert of a full blown prog (as we would call it) album done with enough pretention to satisfy the most earnest ELP fan... yet if you had asked the bunch of teenage girls that were there what they thought about prog.. or if they liked it.. they would have likely looked at you as if you had had two heads. It simply doesn't matter to a lot of bands, nor the listeners. It is the old farts (god bless them) or internet forum freaks that really seem to care about this. Good music lives, and will always live. What people call it really doesn't matter. The days of pigeon-holing bands is as dead as the power of the industry that profitted immensely FROM it. Cheers and welcome to the forum! ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Goodsir
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 17:40
|
Anyone expecting Pink Floyd/Yes/Genesis/whatever to be still releasing quality releases almost 40 years after their prime needs a reality check anyways. But really, this doesn't just apply to prog, it applies to all music in general. It's extremely rare when an artist releases an outstanding album years and years after their prime. It is possible, but I honestly wouldn't expect even some of my favorite artist of the 10s to still be releasing great albums when I'm in my forties. It just doesn't happen. Most artists who have made a large impact on music are already artistically drained only one or two years after their prime anyways. ------------- "Every wave is tidal, if you stick around" - Elliott Smith |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 18:12
I respect your opinion, but you would not say "we" because there are many of us who like the new Pink Floyd album.
|
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 18:17
|
On the one hand, I don't know if we'll ever again be able to experience the buzz of seeing something as truly amazing as Yes at their peak in the early 70s, or King Crimson around that time, or you know, just the TOTAL BIRTH of the idea that rock can do this sort of stuff. I mean, I think that's what the naysayers kind of miss - the idea that - WHOA, I never thought that could be possible! Even the Beatles never thought of that!! But on the other hand, barring the lack of that WOW surprise factor, there is more great music being made nowadays than ever before. EVER BEFORE. Because anybody can do it. You don't need a fancy label and a big budget to record your masterpiece any more. You can pretty much do it yourself. Or if you have fans, you can ask them directly to help you pay for it. It's beautiful. It's like we've cut out the middle man. It's how it was always meant to be. Of course, that means schmucks like me can put albums out too, which is a lot of fun of course, but it brings down the average quality a bit. But if you have the time and desire to look for it, the sky's the limit. Dream up your ideal album and someone's probably made it for your listening pleasure - and probably for free. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: CosmicVibration
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 18:26
What do you mean
I think in their heyday Pink Floyd was not in their league.
|
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 18:28
What is "the flame"? Not passionate vocals anymore, or what? What is "innovative spirit" exactly? Actually, there are more of prog sub-genres than it was the case in 70s. Maybe your listener's flame is gone, have you been thinking about that? Well, the listeners have the right to say about the music that they listen whatever they think, of course, but the fact remains that it is frequent that some fans were losing interest in our beloved genre, and then to try to explain that with e.g. "the lack of "real prog rock", lack of "flame" and so on. |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 18:44
|
Posted By: Isa
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 19:00
|
I've been wondering lately if prog musicians would have been much better off in their careers if they had constantly shifted around their member lineups, forming new bands and bouncing new ideas off each other. That's exactly what Jazz artists did and the sheer output of great music, even just from the 50s and 60s, is enormous. That's why I have a lot of respect for Bill Bruford - he seemed to be one of the few who really caught onto this concept early on, leaving Yes right after CttE and what not. Basically, my suspicion is that the flame goes out because the opportunity for inspired musical ideas grows stale after working with the same musicians for a long time.
------------- The human heart instrinsically longs for that which is true, good, and beautiful. This is why timeless music is never without these qualities. |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 19:46
I'm with you micky, notice I said "Another issue for some..". Call them what you want, some of these new bands are bringing fresh sounds. With a core base that still goes back to the old $hit man  ....What these bands seem to be focusing on is more abstract, mood based, emotions, human stuff versus space/fantasy/dungeons and dragons stuff of the 70's.Whatever...I like new and old for sure. -------------
|
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 19:54
|
The flame is whithering, but it's not out just yet as I see it. For me the Dinosaurs are basically done for, some of the skeletons still move around, But these players are really aging now, they are up for retirement. Bless those that still have the energie, the passion, the will and music in them that makes them desire to carry on. Providing a chance for new fans to see them live. The second generation of prog bands are slowely moving in the same direction, but for me those bands are still relevant, and some of those bands are now beginning their cycle of reforming and starting a second life (Echolyn, Discipline) Breaking up and starting new 'supergroups'. But honestly they cater mostly to their 'old' fans, which I am, so for me, the next coupleof years there will be some nice stuff coming, if only on the live circuit. (this is a nice year, with a new IQ, Pendragon, Fish and an upcoming Arena album) For the newest generation I am a bit worried, as they have to built a fanbase in this current situation, with internet taking over, venue's for liveperforming are lessening, and a radio that gets horizontally programmed as to exclude anything besides major compagny's music being played. For professional bands to survive they really need more support, but they have to compete with amateur bands that release cheaply underproduced tripe made on their nintendo game console (and released as independant albums), butclutter the internet, making it difficult for the fans to find the bands worth supporting (that's where sites like this come in, although here also lots of tripe bands are being promoted by well-intending people who just don't recognise the difference between bad instrument control, or bad writing and inventive playing). So yes, it's a perilous time, for good bands, bands need to be proffesional, but that requires income, an income they can barely make selling albums, is difficult to make touring and impossible to make without both.. So I hope the new bands can find a niche in the market that allow them to pursue their carreer profesionally, else I don't expect them to last very long, (and the masterpiece is mostly the third or fourth album, so bands need to stick together) anyway, more text than I intended. ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 20:04
|
The quick answer is yes, but there's more to it than that.
I mean, who hasn't withered? Metal, pop, jazz-- the only
ones to come out on top seem to be the Country artists. We
are entering a phase in Progrock (yes Progrock, not "progressive
music") that is much like what modern jazz experienced in the 1970s;
still legit, still kicking, still beloved by a minority, but grown-up and without the hunger pangs
so common to a young form. It's up to us at this point to
maintain a market (or at least a scene), because no one else
cares. Time marches on. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 20:15
|
|
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 21:32
|
For me the flame is still burning brightly, just not with any of the dinosaur bands with the exception of KC. If your tastes run to the Avant, Zeuhl, and Psyche prog styles then there are are plenty of good interesting bands producing excellent music. There seems to be more being released than ever before and if you have the patience to explore you will be rewarded. I'm as loyal to my modern favorites as I ever was to the classics. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 23:02
Bloody echo in the room! ABSOLUTELY, my Laz Welshman! 2013 was amazing and 2014 looks just as good. There has never been MORE fabulous prog albums than in the last few years. We (and I) are all very attached to the classics and they are monuments that will last forever. But lately there have been 60-70 minutes prog albums of sheer genius. You don't want me to list them cos It will blow the PA server! ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 23:07
O Tempora o mores. Different times, different values. The technological age has killed the social need for escape. In the 70's, it was music, drugs and sex. Today its virtual sex, internet anonymity and I phones. Can't compare Mozart and Coldplay! or can you?  ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 01:42
Interesting post. The early seventies had something special because a number of key elements came together at the same time: a) Great musicians (today has merely good musicians in many cases. for instance does any drummer wow you like Carl Palmer playing Pictures At An Exhibition or Wakeman playing Six Wives Of Henry Viii) b) New tech both in recording and in terms of equipment ( ie Moog synths) c) A media that took these bands seriously especially the music press d) A number of amazing rock festivals that enabled a lot of these bands to break big My point is that this was a once only deal. You are right that there are still many great albums but nothing that recreates that spirit of the original movement. Personally I don't mind that much. I still enjoy so much music being made now by bands that are inspired by what happened all those years ago. |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 01:53
I'm pretty sure that the new GonG album will be a materpiece. As same as Endless River is Pink Floyd (last?) masterpiece. I agreed that Power To Believe is a great King Crimson album. A five stars prog album, IMHO (without a doubt that's a shame that it's rated bellow 4.00) |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 02:29
|
If one wants to believe the 'flame has gone out' then I wouldn't argue the fact. What I hear these days is either borderline plagiarism, or a modification of an existing approach. It doesn't mean that there are no masterpieces that exist, but there is scarcely a new style being created........ The melding of unrelated genres, be it tech-metal and jazz, is just a 'variation' of what has gone before. I doubt there will be anything honestly 'unheard' of...... Think - Zappa attempted to play a bicycle all those years ago....... Faust incorporated drills and jack-hammers to their live set. .... Unless interplanetary beings visit us and offer gadgets hereto unseen by humankind, we will not hear anything we haven't heard before...... ..............but as I say, doesn't mean that many haven't exceeded their influences....... |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 03:01
|
OK, some of the prog greats are not producing music comparable with their golden era. But for years, I made the mistake of comparing post Hackett Genesis with what had gone before and rubbishing it. When I started to think of them as a new band and judged them on their own merits, I began to find some of their music more enjoyable. Fly From Here is nowhere near as good as say, Close to the Edge. But do I enjoy it? Yes. So enjoy what they're producing in isolation and stop harking back to the glories of the past. As for prog in general, Lazland has, as usual hit the nail on the head. With a year that has produced The Road of Bones, Men Who Climb Mountains and Steve Rothery's solo album The Ghosts of Pripyat, things cannot be that bad. There are more new acts making great music than for a long time and prog is getting more airings in the media than for a long time - and for a change, most are positive. Next year promises many new releases including strong rumours of a new Camel album, and Camel were one of the few bands to come back with immensely strong material in the 00s. So the dinosaurs may be living on past glories but prog in general is alive and kicking.
------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 03:21
|
The flame has not gone out: there have been some excellent prog releases during the last few years: Echolyn, Big Big Train, Deluge Grander, Days between Stations, Akt and Discipline to mention just a few - there are some more. I don't think we should cling to the old dinosaurs if the best thing we can do with them is dig their bones. They have done their job years ago and it was a good one: they have written history. But don't expect any of these 70's giants to release four or five star albums again, maybe you'll be surprised on some occasion. The next generation carries the flag right now. ------------- 
|
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 05:34
|
Considering that most 70 year-olds take too long in the bank line and drive too slow in the goddam fast lane, I don't think one should be too hard on an aging group of prog musicians. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 06:06
Spot on. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
|
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 08:29
|
YES! Your children will grow up and you die and your "influence" will be over at any time! Stop crying! It's their time, and you already had yours! This is grossly over rated, and I believe this is a bad study of "time" and the artistic/musical genre, in general. No one, even here today, (other than a handfull, if that!), even discusses music here within a historical context. Any artistic scene, in the history of ALL the arts, usually only lasts so long ... and that's that. Times change! Feelings change! For better or worse, in our view is not important ... that's life! So you thinking that your idea is better and such, is selfish, delusional and stupid! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 08:47
There is some great OLD music out there. There is some great NEW music out there.
(I did a little editing Laz!!) ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 08:50
What did you say, son?
 (Don't forget the ears also go when you get on in (y)ears! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: thwok
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 09:16
I'll start by building on what Isa said. When you work with the same people for too long, it's inevitable that at some point, you're going to stop being as progressive as you once were. For instance, The Beatles recorded for less than 10 years and constantly innovated. Would they have continued to do so? I also think a lot of younger progressive bands are taking their influences from other sources than the classic prog bands that we love. A large part of the music I listen to these days (I'm 48) is influenced by Extreme Metal or is in that category. ------------- I am the funkiest man on the planet! |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 09:45
|
Something I tried to say in a previous post, but made a terrible mess of and ended up deleting-I'll try again. This thread reminds me that we should thank our lucky stars that most of us live in a society where we can create, listen to, and appreciate and communicate about music in a free way. It may not always be that way! And it's people like in PA that keep the progressive rock flame going, no matter what. Look at all the diversity of opinions and focus here in these forums-it's an amazing and blessed thing. |
Posted By: thwok
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 10:01
I am a Christian and church choir member, besides being a music nerd. Presdoug, I agree with you 100 percent! ------------- I am the funkiest man on the planet! |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 10:23
^this......these guys are getting old.....a slow down is natural. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: yuribujuri
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 10:30
|
Thank you for your welcoming words, I enjoy this forum. I understand your point and I partly agree. The thing is, IMHO: look at the year 1971, how many awesome albums were released this year? Maybe every month you had a masterpiece. Look at the year 1972 and repeat the analysis, and so on... Between 1969 and 1975 the average of great masterpieces (in music sense and also in art sense) was so high... Nowadays, if you compare, I'm sorry but the average isn't the same. However, as I said, I think we have a high level bands and the genre is full alive. Nevertheless, if I could have a I time machine, for sure I would like to go to seventies. I recognize, of course, the amount of romanticism of my vision Thanks for your comments! |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 11:04
An appropriate question, and one that I have pondered. Many prog acts, such as Yes, seem to have outworn their welcome. Their newest release, "Heaven and Earth," was just short of dreadful. However, King Crimson is back and strong as ever! Their show in Chicago, 26 September 2014, was absolutely BRILLIANT!! Bob Fripp seems to have found his mojo, and playing with a band full of longtime collaborators and fresher faces seems to have reinvigorated him!! Jon Anderson may not be with Yes any longer, but his recent work with Jean Luc Ponty appears to be VERY progressive! Anderson-Ponty Band is supposed to be working on new material, and will release a DVD of their initial live performance sometime soon. Anderson continues to tour with his own act, which is quite fun! Ian Anderson sounds like he's about had it, but Rick Wakeman continues to perform, so we'll just see what comes. I've fallen out of touch with ELP, I've read that Carl Palmer may retire soon. Being a prog drummer must be very hard work to maintain, decade after decade!! Greg Lake toured with his little speaking/solo tour, I took a pass on that. Not sure what to make of Genesis, I don't think there will be anything new or progressive out of them in the future. And who knows about Pink Floyd? The longest-running soap opera in prog. As age catches up with musicians and fans alike, I'm happy to have the quality product that we've been given thus far. King Crimson's stage in Chicago.....just the appearance is progressive!! THREE drum sets!!  |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 11:23
|
On one of the blog forums, one of the folks here did this by year ... and it is very nicely done. If ever you want to have an idea what to listen to, his blog has it!
Fruitless exercise. You might as well go around trying to compare Stravinsky to Tachiakovsky! All it shows is a very glaring and loud lack of knowledge and appreciation for the arts, not to mention music.
There are many books in Science Fiction and normal fiction that deal with this. We can even go back and look at Melmoth the Wanderer who is now miserable and missing his past loves and his past wives! I just think that we have this idea that the time, THEN, was better than it is TODAY. This is not always the case, and in fact it is a more romanticized version of the events than otherwise. You don't want to go back to the days in Madison, where I was friskedand checked out when I went to work at the Rathskeller, during the days of the Kent State shootings. It was more than f_____! And a lot of the music, was a solid justification for our feelings of being abused ... for an empty promise and lies! You don't want to go back and see how Picasso took his "picture" from his window-sill in order to give you a Guernica ... it hurts! It's sick. It's sad ... but it was a reality. All you can do is appreciate the people that stood up for those freedoms and stand up by them and with them ... they were true heroes in many ways and are remembered for their work, and talent. That's not to say that the soldier that gave his life is also wrong ... of course he isn't. But the cause might have been .... questionable, but only "time" can judge that! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 11:55
It is a hoot. Glad you enjoy it. The core of a forum are the people that post there and there are a lot of great people here. Make a point to meet them when you can. Even more enjoyable in person. I haven't met anyone yet that hasn't been a real fun experience. I'd be a fool to disagree with you because you are 100% correct but as some have pointed out, it is a completely different world out there today than it was 30-40 years ago. I'd bet my paycheck on any number of albums being released today that would fall into, would have been considered masterpieces if released in a environment where the music and exposure to the masses was facilitated by a powerful recording industry. THere is FANTASTIC music being made today. On par with the best of the 70's stuff and just as creative with the same emphasis on breaking molds and being progressive. Finding their own sounds, their own voices. Today, again as noted, thing are so much different. Really only country music and rap (I suppose haha) are still under the thumb of the 'industry'. Rock music has IMO fragmented and decentralized beyond any realistic hope of categorizing. Anyone can make, record, and get music out to people. Today IMO it is up to people to find the music, it isn't like the good old days when the industry put it out there and heavily promoted it. Anyhow. Look forward to seeing your posts and opinions on the multitude of topics that get thrashed about here. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 12:52
|
I agree with Lazland, prog is alive and well and in a new generation's hands!! Besides, there was absolutely nothing wrong with the last KC album or the current PF. I see the Endless River as what is, a sad elegy for the passing of Richard Wright. It contains all the elements of PF in a very melancholic farewell. ------------- A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!! |
Posted By: tomlanesound
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 15:05
| No Syd means no Floyd |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 15:12
lol guess you gave up on Floyd long before now |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 15:15
I think he meant no Roger no Floyd.If not.. then I MEAN it damnit!!! ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 15:21
|
No Bob Close No Floyd ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 15:23
|
Actually, no Wright means no Floyd |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 15:26
|
Viva Roger Waters........amen! ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 15:33
Amen brother Chris! Floyd went down the toilet still with him (or because of him hahah), but they would have been worth caring about WITHOUT him in the first place. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 15:51
I have their albums with him on, but they're mostly utter rubbish. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 16:32
|
No Gilmour, Wright, Waters writing credits no Floyd ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 16:54
|
I'm currently listening to Steve Hackett's 'Out of the Tunnel's Mouth' and it's quite good. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 17:01
|
Hackett is an exception to the rule. He spent those golden years having a giant ass clamp put on his creativity. He had to get out of Genesis to shine ...as did Gabriel. As did Collins Even Rutherford. I think that means... well...Tony Banks is the devil I tell yah ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 21:05
|
Flame not out--Pharrell ----hippest songwriter producer of our time was on The Voice wearing a Yes tour tee shirt.
|
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 21:37
So, I guess that makes you "Happy"? Somehow, I do not share the feeling, nor do I have the same definition regarding the phrase "hippest songwriter". It's rather like seeing some addled, newfangled teen popster wearing a Hendrix or Floyd shirt. It is an accessory, not a musical statement. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 21:52
|
^ Pharrell is hugely talented, make no mistake. Longevity remains to be seen. his work with Nike Rodgers and Daft Punk was especially good. ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 22:13
Again, your definition of "especially good" in no way coincides with mine. But to each his own. Let's just agree that wearing a Yes t-shirt on an inane show like The Voice does not in any way translate into musical influence. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: November 12 2014 at 00:16
|
I was being facetious---we must laugh in the face of adversity. But still Pharrell has good taste.
|
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 12 2014 at 00:30
You watch 'The Voice'?! Is it any good?! I watch Strictly so I can't say much
. At least it has Dave Arch who once played in Greg Lake's touring band. Prog creeping into Saturday nights on the BEEB |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 12 2014 at 06:08
I base good on gut reaction and I liked Happy. Seems like a decent pop song to me. Other than that I haven't heard anything else. The flame has only gone out if you think punk killed prog. If you think no good prog has been made after the '70's. If you ignore the the new generation of old prog fans that are making new music... ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: November 12 2014 at 07:25
|
Nope, but the fire has definitely spread to other fields than prog. The part that made prog musicians truly progressive in their day is often found in modern electronic music. The search for an altogether new sonic expression and the freedom and will to explore it, yep go to the electronic genre to look for that. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: November 12 2014 at 08:49
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: November 12 2014 at 09:15
 |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: November 12 2014 at 09:22
Do I watch The Voice? No--I channel surf and end up on it for like 3 minutes at a time this season to see Pharrell and Gwen Stephanie as both have had some songs I appreciated but no never sat there for 2 hours and stared at the TV--my brother and a friend texted me with the Yes shirt info---knowing I'm a huge fan.
|
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: November 12 2014 at 09:35
| NERD (Pharrell's band) had this album Fly or Die which isn't half bad. That band was reasonably successful, so the way he seemingly sprang out of the woodwork with Happy is strange. Voice is maybe the most tolerable of the big music reality shows, which isn't saying a whole lot. But at least the singing isn't too bad and sometimes the contestants can surprise, like Jean Kelley's performance of Chandelier. The song selections are very unappetizing (for me), that's the main problem. |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: November 12 2014 at 11:34
| If I had heard Art Zoyd's "Le Mariage du Ciel et de l' Enfer" in 1972 after my discovery of Jethro Tull's "Thick As A Brick", I would have most likely told you that it was "Progressive Rock". This is a distant observation into the world of music progressing. If people become discouraged over the last 10 years of "Neo Prog', they can always refer back to the underground Prog bands of the 80's and 90's. Many of them were not clones of something written in music or someone that wrote it. |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: November 13 2014 at 13:35
Le Mariage du Ciel et de l' Enfer --- Great album ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: brainstormer
Date Posted: November 13 2014 at 13:41
|
There were select songs by 5 UU's that were good and very much like what would have happened if Yes kept inventing new styles. ------------- -- Robert Pearson Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: November 14 2014 at 00:21
Good summary. Agree about KC. Fripps approach has meant they have survived and maintained artistic edge. Konstruction of Light wasn't fantastic, but certainly everything up to and including Power to Believe ranks alongside their 70's efforts imo. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: November 14 2014 at 02:26
|
As someone pointed, the environmental and cultural circumstances were completely different. Rock music was the main entertainment and vehicle for cultural expression for the youth of the early 70's. People awaited eagerly for the new albums, went to the shop to buy them, they shared them, listened to them together, discussed them, got stoned together listening to them, studied and discussed the artwork, copied the clothing styles of their musical heroes, hanged posters in their bedrooms, bought the music magazines because they talked about those bands... The bands knew this so they were engaged in a certain form of competition for becoming the most appealing and talked-about, musically and as a cultural and entertainment act. Those of us who learnt Prog in the 70's can't avoid having our perception of the classic masterpieces linked to those environmental factors, which very probably gives them a deeper dimension in our hearts, and we may feel that although great music is surely made today (possibly even better from a purely technical point of view), some of the magic is gone. But I am not sure if the young generations who are discovering the 70's classics now, free from their original environmental circumstances, agree that they were so much better than many modern great Prog albums. I have discovered many truly fantastic modern albums, but the discovery experience is now much colder, I learn about them through the internet, order them online, I'm usually alone when I receive them and listen to them for the first times, and if I like them the only chance to share them and discuss them is with a few close friends who as myself do not have much time anymore for music, or through the net in places like PA with people I don't even know. It's not "the flame" which is gone, it's the times.
|
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: November 14 2014 at 10:41
| As long as bored 15-year-old boys are still around and sneaking into their fathers' dens to discover and pull out that battered copy of Yes' Fragile for a spin, there's still hope... |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: November 14 2014 at 10:52
------------- https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music 
|
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: November 14 2014 at 12:29
"Like some tacky little pamphlet In your daddy's bottom drawer..." -Zappa That's all that comes to mind, quite frankly. And don't quit your day job. |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: November 14 2014 at 12:38
Agree. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: November 14 2014 at 13:26
I felt this way about Ron Geesin's last official release..Ron Cycle 1
|