Who is your favourite revolutionary?

micky wrote: belated clappies dear on your posts earlier...  states rights is just a kindler and gentler term for allowing discrimination. If they would do it to gays...  they would do it to blacks.. same premise.  You don't become enlightened as to equality of one..and not see the other.

Atavachron wrote: I hate the Confederate flag but if I'm being honest, you can't really stop someone from flying a symbol in the US, that's kinda the point (even a swastika which of course turns up in everything from Native Am culture to North Asian, not to mention American Nazi Party).  If a state wants to end its use of it that's fine and probably for the best (especially since few taxpayers want to have to pay for new flags), but the rebel flag is a big part of history, it is also a symbol to be opposed, and there to remind us to oppose it.

I agree that it's a big part of American history, so the confederate flag should be placed in an institution dedicated for the chronicling and education of American hate crimes, where anyone is allowed to see it, if they chose to. For free.

Edited by SteveG - September 19 2015 at 09:25

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: TGM: Orb wrote: Stalin and Mao had both seen what happens to peaceful communists - the capitalist and quasi-feudal societies around them destroy them.  So.......That justifies more or less 120'000,000 humans assasinated? If they don't exterminate our system, we exterminate our own people. TGM: Orb wrote: The US in the same period murdered its own citizens, blacklisted moderate artists, started wars and coups abroad in a paranoiac attempt to stem the 'domino effect'.  Who justifies the USA crimes? Even when not remotely a shadow of what the USSR did. Artists were blacklisted but everybody who opposed  Stalin was sent to a Kulag or killed. USA didn't had an organized genocide as the USSR or China in Tibet. TGM: Orb wrote: Admittedly it never quite reached the same snowball of madness that Stalin did but then Stalin had profited much less from WW2 than the US did. For God's sake Have you heard of the Warsaw Pact? USSR occupied half Europe, despite they had been allies of the Nazis, and this occupation allowed them to survive 40 more years. And they were allowed

Nothing justifies what Stalin did but pretending that Stalinism and Maoism happened in a vacuum doesn't do anyone any favours. No country that has just formed itself comes without bloodshed and oppression of one kind or another. If anyone wants to ask why Stalinism and Maoism were so violent, it is because they'd seen what happens to peaceable communal movements - if the USSR had been peaceable it would've been destroyed by Britain, America, France, Japan etc. in the Russian Civil War and the US spent the entirety of the post-WW2 period forcing it to focus on military security over national stability. Of course, Lenin was responsible for brutally shutting down more anarchy-tinged communist groups.

Yes, I have heard of the Warsaw Pact. Unlike the US, the Soviet Union had actually been invaded in the Second War; unlike the US, the Soviet Union didn't profit massively from the collapse of the British Empire. You may patronise all you like but the US did extremely well out of the Second World War, while the USSR's gains came at a staggering cost.

Saying that the USSR 'had been allies of the Nazis' is factually true but extraordinarily deliberately misleading, even for you.

And he's your favorite revolutionary? What's the point is what I'm trying to say.

Edited by SteveG - September 19 2015 at 10:00

Dean wrote: Well now we have some idea of what Micky would look like in a dress.

Kati wrote: Swastika is a symbol of pain and horror, thus why would one want to parade around with that?

It is true that some of the worst atrocities in modern history were committed under a flag that bore a swastika, but I disagree that that outweighs its religious significance. It's hard to compare to other recent controversies such as the confederate flag controversy because the swastika as a symbol has been found as far back as 10,000BC. It has globe spanning cultural significance, to pull a bit of a Svetonio:

A Person wrote: Kati wrote: Swastika is a symbol of pain and horror, thus why would one want to parade around with that? It is true that some of the worst atrocities in modern history were committed under a flag that bore a swastika, but I disagree that that outweighs its religious significance. It's hard to compare to other recent controversies such as the confederate flag controversy because the swastika as a symbol has been found as far back as 10,000BC. It has globe spanning cultural significance.

SteveG wrote:  Yes, it's a shame that the Nazis pirated a religious and national symbol and turned it into a symbol of hate and oppression. The Nazi geniuses concluded that the pure blood blue eyed and blond haired Aryan race descended from India or some other ridiculous eastern place.

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 19 2015 at 12:16

lazland wrote: Svetonio wrote: British Marxist Jeremy Corbyn is also a revolutionist at his own way.             He is not a Marxist, and you are a tit.

Thank you. Well, comrade Jeremy can not say openly "I am a Marxist" and to become the Prime Minister simply because "Marxist" is satanized word up there. He could say, for example "I'm an admirer of Karl Marx" or something like that, but "I am a Marxist" he will able to say only as the Prime Minister of the Great Britain.