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Most Overrated Band of the 'Big Six'
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Poll Question: Who is the most overrated band of the 'Big Six'?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
73 [35.96%]
26 [12.81%]
28 [13.79%]
20 [9.85%]
37 [18.23%]
19 [9.36%]
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Cristi View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Floydoid Floydoid wrote:

Lately I've been seeing more usage of the term 'Big Six' in terms of prog rock bands, and it got me wondering which (if any) you consider to be the most overrated.

So... vote away and discuss.

there is no such thing as "the big six", I hope this term does not pick up and gets to be used. 

none of them are overrated.
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Floydoid Floydoid wrote:

Lately I've been seeing more usage of the term 'Big Six' in terms of prog rock bands, and it got me wondering which (if any) you consider to be the most overrated.

So... vote away and discuss.

there is no such thing as "the big six", I hope this term does not pick up and gets to be used. 

none of them are overrated.

I'd never heard anyone use the term before visiting the PA forums, TBH.

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^I don't recall hearing it before it was used  here.
Does anyone know where it originated? 
This forum, another prog one. a reviewer on another website,,,?

And on topic and I think I asked this before.....but 'overrated' in what way? By the actual votes /stars on PA
 or just general impressions of how bands are perceived in the 'prog world' ?
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Add The Moody Blues, Rush, Kansas and Gentle Giant and you've got the Big Ten.
Then add VDGG and Camel for a Big 12.
This could go on ad nauseam. 
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Floydoid Floydoid wrote:

Lately I've been seeing more usage of the term 'Big Six' in terms of prog rock bands, and it got me wondering which (if any) you consider to be the most overrated.

So... vote away and discuss.

there is no such thing as "the big six", I hope this term does not pick up and gets to be used. 

none of them are overrated.

I think there is. It's certainly a term I have heard before. I think at some point it was supplanted by "the big five" though or at least "big five" became a somewhat more common term in prog circles. 

Anyway, here are the bands I would put in a big six being as objective as possible(no order):

Yes
Genesis
Pink Floyd
King Crimson
Jethro Tull
Rush

Next up would probably be GEntle Giant then ELP with the latter not being included due to a decrease in popularity and prog "cred." 
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Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

Add The Moody Blues, Rush, Kansas and Gentle Giant and you've got the Big Ten.
Then add VDGG and Camel for a Big 12.
This could go on ad nauseam. 

I kind of agree. However, then you are missing Marillion and Porcupine Tree who are both probably more well known than at least the last two you mentioned. Then there's the issue of some not considering Kansas, Rush or Moody Blues prog let a lone Pink Floyd. However, from a traditional perspective I'm more than ok with your list. 
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^ ELP definitely has to be in there. They were as big as any other rock band in the early '70s, a status which no other prog band apart from Pink Floyd in the late '70s managed to achieve.

For what it's worth I personally think the 'Big Six' appelation (using the six bands listed in the poll) is useful just as the 'Big Four' of Thrash Metal is. I wouldn't dare to say that the output of these 6 bands is the best thing progressive rock has to offer (similar conclusion with Thrash Metal btw) but they are way ahead in terms of success (sales and following) and influence. 
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There are four bands in the "Big Six" that can't be touched: Yes, Genesis, KC and ELP.
Then, there's a fight for the last spots between PF, JT, Rush, VDGG and GG.

Maybe we should call them The Big Nine and make everyone happy
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Originally posted by Larkstongue41 Larkstongue41 wrote:

^ ELP definitely has to be in there. They were as big as any other rock band in the early '70s, a status which no other prog band apart from Pink Floyd in the late '70s managed to achieve.

For what it's worth I personally think the 'Big Six' appelation (using the six bands listed in the poll) is useful just as the 'Big Four' of Thrash Metal is. I wouldn't dare to say that the output of these 6 bands is the best thing progressive rock has to offer (similar conclusion with Thrash Metal btw) but they are way ahead in terms of success (sales and following) and influence. 

Well, times change plain and simple. In the early to mid seventies sure ELP would be on there but not these days. Imo, it would make more sense to have Gentle Giant on a big five or six list. I mean seriously, I personally like ELP a lot but this isn't about personal taste or preference but more about consensus and it certainly isn't just about album sales. The bottom line is ELP just aren't popular or accepted anymore whether you and I like it or not. So with that in mind it makes no sense to have a band on the list that high up if most(or at least half)of prog fans have nothing but disdain for them. Maybe we should have a poll asking how much people on here(prog fans)dislike ELP. Trust me the results won't be pretty.
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For what it’s worth, I still love and listen to ELP
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Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

For what it’s worth, I still love and listen to ELP

I was playing BSS in my car a couple of weeks ago or so. I really can't understand how anyone could hate it. They were doing stuff 40 plus years ago that many modern prog bands can't pull off let alone dare to try. 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - April 19 2018 at 15:58
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Pink Floyd for obvious reasons. Most places I go to will hear Pink Floyd,  most people own Pink Floyd,  most talked about common prog band in Canada is Rush and Pink Floyd.

Genesis can be split into 2 era's ,  Prog Genesis ( Not Common ),    Poppy Genesis after Steve Hackett left and Then They Were Three...  More common and certain tracks played on the radio 
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Originally posted by Upbeat Tango Monday Upbeat Tango Monday wrote:

There are four bands in the "Big Six" that can't be touched: Yes, Genesis, KC and ELP. 
Then, there's a fight for the last spots between PF, JT, Rush, VDGG and GG.

Maybe we should call them The Big Nine and make everyone happy  

That's how I always thought of it, too. I put GG and VDGG right behind those six!

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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Larkstongue41 Larkstongue41 wrote:

^ ELP definitely has to be in there. They were as big as any other rock band in the early '70s, a status which no other prog band apart from Pink Floyd in the late '70s managed to achieve.

For what it's worth I personally think the 'Big Six' appelation (using the six bands listed in the poll) is useful just as the 'Big Four' of Thrash Metal is. I wouldn't dare to say that the output of these 6 bands is the best thing progressive rock has to offer (similar conclusion with Thrash Metal btw) but they are way ahead in terms of success (sales and following) and influence. 

Well, times change plain and simple. In the early to mid seventies sure ELP would be on there but not these days. Imo, it would make more sense to have Gentle Giant on a big five or six list. I mean seriously, I personally like ELP a lot but this isn't about personal taste or preference but more about consensus and it certainly isn't just about album sales. The bottom line is ELP just aren't popular or accepted anymore whether you and I like it or not. So with that in mind it makes no sense to have a band on the list that high up if most(or at least half)of prog fans have nothing but disdain for them. Maybe we should have a poll asking how much people on here(prog fans)dislike ELP. Trust me the results won't be pretty.
How can you not account for time when trying to objectively discuss a movement of rock music that has its roots in the late 60s? Might as well make the Big Six only Neo bands.

ELP not popular anymore? I personally can't stand them after their debut and they do get a lot of sh*t on this forum but so does King Crimson, Tull and Pink Floyd. Yes and Genesis are two of the most mocked and ridiculed rock bands aside from Nickelback and so what? There's always going to be loudmouths sh*tting on art or entertainment and you should never assume that an artist is not liked or has no creative value simply because you hear/read a lot of detractors.

EDIT- In fact, I would tend to argue that true art necessarily attracts more negative than positive criticism, and that lack of success or popularity is a sign of better artistic integrity. The thing is that authentic art has to be self-indulgent as opposed to being aimed towards commercial sale. Self-indulgent art alienates people and that's why most people go for art (entertainment would be a more appropriate term in this case) that is devoid of any creative or artistic features and is therefore safe and lame.


Edited by Larkstongue41 - April 19 2018 at 18:43
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Originally posted by Larkstongue41 Larkstongue41 wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Larkstongue41 Larkstongue41 wrote:

^ ELP definitely has to be in there. They were as big as any other rock band in the early '70s, a status which no other prog band apart from Pink Floyd in the late '70s managed to achieve.

For what it's worth I personally think the 'Big Six' appelation (using the six bands listed in the poll) is useful just as the 'Big Four' of Thrash Metal is. I wouldn't dare to say that the output of these 6 bands is the best thing progressive rock has to offer (similar conclusion with Thrash Metal btw) but they are way ahead in terms of success (sales and following) and influence. 

Well, times change plain and simple. In the early to mid seventies sure ELP would be on there but not these days. Imo, it would make more sense to have Gentle Giant on a big five or six list. I mean seriously, I personally like ELP a lot but this isn't about personal taste or preference but more about consensus and it certainly isn't just about album sales. The bottom line is ELP just aren't popular or accepted anymore whether you and I like it or not. So with that in mind it makes no sense to have a band on the list that high up if most(or at least half)of prog fans have nothing but disdain for them. Maybe we should have a poll asking how much people on here(prog fans)dislike ELP. Trust me the results won't be pretty.
How can you not account for time when trying to objectively discuss a movement of rock music that has its roots in the late 60s? Might as well make the Big Six only Neo bands.

ELP not popular anymore? I personally can't stand them after their debut and they do get a lot of sh*t on this forum but so does King Crimson, Tull and Pink Floyd. Yes and Genesis are two of the most mocked and ridiculed rock bands aside from Nickelback and so what? There's always going to be loudmouths sh*tting on art or entertainment and you should never assume that an artist is not liked or has no creative value simply because you hear/read a lot of detractors.

EDIT- In fact, I would tend to argue that true art necessarily attracts more negative than positive criticism, and that lack of success or popularity is a sign of better artistic integrity. The thing is that authentic art has to be self-indulgent as opposed to being aimed towards commercial sale. Self-indulgent art alienates people and that's why most people go for art (entertainment would be a more appropriate term in this case) that is devoid of any creative or artistic features and is therefore safe and lame.

No, because the neo subgenre as a whole is disliked almost as much as ELP. Tull, KC and PF maybe get crapped on a bit in this forum but not to the extent ELP does just look at those poll numbers they speak for themselves. It's funny how I'm opposite of you in that I like them even after the first album but we disagree nonetheless apparently. I actually would like to see them in a big six but realistically they don't quite cut it. Yes they were influential and to some degree still are but there's too much vitriol thrown at them these days for them to be on a list instead of Gentle Giant when GG are these days far more respected(VDGG too for that matter). Yeah, Yes and Genesis are mocked but not so much on here only among non prog heads who don't know any better. Other than that I think the old saying you can't please everyone holds true. Even if Yes and Genesis are made fun of they aren't to the extent that ELP are. Not even close. 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - April 19 2018 at 18:54
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

there's too much vitriol thrown at them these days for them to be on a list instead of Gentle Giant when GG are these days far more respected(VDGG too for that matter).
 
According to whom? You can't draw such general conclusions based solely on PA polls.                                                                                                                                                   
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Yeah, Yes and Genesis are mocked but not so much on here only among non prog heads who don't know any better.
 
I think it's a bit foolish to imply that people who are not into prog can't be reliable references when it comes to music.

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Even if Yes and Genesis are made fun of they aren't to the extent that ELP are. Not even close. 
Again what is this based on? Your own personal experience? A whole lot more than that can be taken into account even when dealing with such an abstract concept. It's in no way meant to be a serious argument but Yes and Genesis both have a firm place in meme culture which is hard to beat as a ridicule status. Perhaps I just spend too much time on the internet.

Btw I wouldn't want you to think I have anything against you or the way you think after this exchange. You're perhaps the member who has been contributing to discussion the most in these past months and I wholeheartedly thank you for it. The forum would feel dead if not for your posts. I simply love to talk music and to argue on just about anything. 


Edited by Larkstongue41 - April 19 2018 at 20:44
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Um, if we’re eliminating ELP from the big six pedestal because they’ve become annoying to people, can we get a less annoying group than Gentle Giant to replace them?
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Originally posted by Larkstongue41 Larkstongue41 wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

there's too much vitriol thrown at them these days for them to be on a list instead of Gentle Giant when GG are these days far more respected(VDGG too for that matter).
 
According to whom? You can't draw such general conclusions based solely on PA polls.                                                                                                                                                   
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Yeah, Yes and Genesis are mocked but not so much on here only among non prog heads who don't know any better.
 
I think it's a bit foolish to imply that people who are not into prog can't be reliable references when it comes to music.

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Even if Yes and Genesis are made fun of they aren't to the extent that ELP are. Not even close. 
Again what is this based on? Your own personal experience? A whole lot more than that can be taken into account even when dealing with such an abstract concept. It's in no way meant to be a serious argument but Yes and Genesis both have a firm place in meme culture which is hard to beat as a ridicule status. Perhaps I just spend too much time on the internet.

Btw I wouldn't want you to think I have anything against you or the way you think after this exchange. You're perhaps the member who has been contributing to discussion the most in these past months and I wholeheartedly thank you for it. The forum would feel dead if not for your posts. I simply love to talk music and to argue on just about anything. 

Confused


Let me guess. You're studying to be a lawyer. I'm sure you will scare the crap out of the witnesses especially if they don't agree with your opinion on prog. :D 




Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - April 19 2018 at 22:42
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Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Um, if we’re eliminating ELP from the big six pedestal because they’ve become annoying to people, can we get a less annoying group than Gentle Giant to replace them?

You mean like Magma or Van der Graaf Generator? LOL
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[I think it's a bit foolish to imply that people who are not into prog can't be reliable references when it comes to music]

How about if I make fun of rap music without really understanding it just because it seems foreign to me. Or maybe country and western music. I think if anyone has a right to be critical it's the fans. If you aren't a fan you can have an opinion for sure but it's not going to hold as much weight as someone who understands what the music is all about. So anyway, thanks for putting words in my mouth. I didn't say music. I was explicitly referring to prog. How about if you and I go on some rap forums and criticize rap music as outsiders. Let's see how long we last. :)

But anyway, no they are not reliable when it comes to criticizing prog when they don't know the genre and are judging it as outsiders. Would I be as reliable judging art as an art teacher? Say I am not into art but I think I can judge it without understanding it. "Look at that abstract crap. Look at Picasso. What a hack. What is this crap?" If you can't understand that point then you are the foolish one not me. 

Anyway, I'll see you in the prog court room. Where's my gavel. Tongue


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - April 19 2018 at 22:41
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