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ProgMetaller2112 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: December 08 2012 Location: Pacoima,CA,USA Status: Offline Points: 3150 |
 Posted: January 26 2013 at 19:18 |
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The Knife is Iommi-esque but that's Anthony playing on Trespass
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
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ProgMetaller2112
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2012 Location: Pacoima,CA,USA Status: Offline Points: 3150 |
Posted: January 26 2013 at 19:20 |
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Did Fripp come up with two-hand tapping, I think not
 Edited by ProgMetaller2112 - January 26 2013 at 19:20 |
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
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Sumdeus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 23 2012 Location: SF Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 831 |
Posted: January 26 2013 at 19:20 |
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Yes that is the point I was making. Fripp's leads on Schizoid Man hold similarities to death metal soloing. I guess my Avenged Sevenfold comment was unnecessary since it would be Maiden and Metallica that they got their influence from as opposed to Genesis. also Hackett did not invent two hand tapping. Edited by Sumdeus - January 26 2013 at 19:20 |
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Sumdeus - surreal space/psych/prog journeys
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Eria Tarka
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 17 2011 Location: BC, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5856 |
Posted: January 26 2013 at 19:20 |
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Why do you think that?
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ProgMetaller2112
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2012 Location: Pacoima,CA,USA Status: Offline Points: 3150 |
Posted: January 26 2013 at 19:27 |
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I'm not a fan of the low growling vocals and drumming, it all sounds the same, but Death is good. I' more of a fan of Thrash and Classic metal and their solos are more fluid and there's more variety  . I know a lot of Thrash sounds the same too but at least it varies more |
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
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ProgMetaller2112
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2012 Location: Pacoima,CA,USA Status: Offline Points: 3150 |
Posted: January 26 2013 at 19:27 |
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who used it first for rock music???? Edited by ProgMetaller2112 - January 26 2013 at 19:29 |
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
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Sumdeus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 23 2012 Location: SF Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 831 |
Posted: January 26 2013 at 19:34 |
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after a quick search it seems he was indeed one of the first for rock music, although Ritchie Blackmore claims seeing Harvey Mandel do it as far back as '68. Still, it was already used a lot in jazz guitar and other stuff prior to Hackett.
also would like to point out that I don't deny Hackett's influence on heavy metal soloing but we were talking specifically about the heaviness of Genesis and I don't think Hackett's soloing is enough for me to consider Genesis heavy ever |
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Sumdeus - surreal space/psych/prog journeys
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ProgMetaller2112
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2012 Location: Pacoima,CA,USA Status: Offline Points: 3150 |
Posted: January 26 2013 at 19:40 |
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The Musical Box, The Knife,The Return of the Giant Hogweed to me sound like they influenced Prog Metal . Therefore I think those songs are heavy as for the later stuff not so much but those song are indeed heavy in my opinion. The stuff is earlier than anything Crimson ever did besides Schizoid Man but even at that I don't that song is really that Heavy aside from the power chords and drumming it really doesn't have what I love about Metal music |
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
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Horizons
Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 20 2011 Location: Somewhere Else Status: Offline Points: 16952 |
Posted: January 26 2013 at 19:41 |
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Are you saying Hackett did? Cuz no
Edited by Horizons - January 26 2013 at 19:52 |
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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ProgMetaller2112
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2012 Location: Pacoima,CA,USA Status: Offline Points: 3150 |
Posted: January 26 2013 at 19:42 |
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I suggest that you look up Metal Evolution the Episode for Prog Metal. Michael Giles is on it and he flat-out says that King Crimson is not Metal |
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
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Sumdeus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 23 2012 Location: SF Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 831 |
Posted: January 26 2013 at 19:43 |
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nobody is saying King Crimson is metal. You don't have to be metal to influence metal. Genesis are not metal either. And Steve Hackett is not metal.
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Sumdeus - surreal space/psych/prog journeys
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ProgMetaller2112
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2012 Location: Pacoima,CA,USA Status: Offline Points: 3150 |
Posted: January 26 2013 at 19:48 |
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You're right, Rome but you are acting as if they are though |
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
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ProgMetaller2112
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2012 Location: Pacoima,CA,USA Status: Offline Points: 3150 |
Posted: January 26 2013 at 19:49 |
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Good News:Tony Iommi defeated cancer
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
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Sumdeus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 23 2012 Location: SF Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 831 |
Posted: January 26 2013 at 19:50 |
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I never said KC were metal. The point I'm supporting is that I think King Crimson's heavy sections are heavier than any time Genesis gets a bit heavy, because I don't really think Genesis is ever heavy
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Sumdeus - surreal space/psych/prog journeys
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ProgMetaller2112
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2012 Location: Pacoima,CA,USA Status: Offline Points: 3150 |
Posted: January 26 2013 at 20:01 |
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In this case heavy is in the ear of the beholder. I think Genesis has their moments of heaviness and they happened before KC pretty much |
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
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FusionKing
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 28 2009 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 522 |
Posted: January 26 2013 at 20:14 |
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Yes.
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"Man is nothing else but that which he makes of himself" - Sartre
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: January 26 2013 at 20:19 |
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I had obviously made a comment comparing the track Red to Genesis or Yes, not KC tracks prior to Hogweed, Gates of Delirium, Musical Box. So now you are just twisting the argument in a desperate bid to 'win' it. If that does not characterise trolling, I don't know what does. And I don't see how Gates of Delirium is anywhere near as heavy as Red, not even close. Neither of those bands ever had such an industrial sound as that lineup of KC. I do agree that Hackett's solo on Musical Box anticipates the approach of metal lead guitar but for heavy rhythm guitar, KC is a lot more like metal than Genesis or Yes ever were.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: January 26 2013 at 20:21 |
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Nope, because Schizoid was even earlier than Nursery Cryme, to say nothing of Relayer. In 1969, there was nothing as heavy as 21st century Schizoid Man and once again in 73-74, with Fracture and Red, KC made some of the heaviest rock music up to that point.
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ProgMetaller2112
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2012 Location: Pacoima,CA,USA Status: Offline Points: 3150 |
Posted: January 26 2013 at 20:25 |
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In 1969, there was nothing as heavy as 21st century Schizoid Man Black Sabbath was heavier |
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
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ProgMetaller2112
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2012 Location: Pacoima,CA,USA Status: Offline Points: 3150 |
Posted: January 26 2013 at 20:26 |
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I'm not trolling, OK. I'm just trying to point out that you're wrong |
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
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ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
. Come on now Rome those blistering solos from Hackett that's "metal"!!!!!!!!!!!!!! way heavier than anything KC ever did 
more like Iron Maiden and Metallica, death metal sucks