Joined: December 31 2008
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Topic: Tom Waits for RIO Posted: October 15 2011 at 14:32
It's almost a crime that Tom Waits, probably among the most stylistically creative musical geniuses of the 20th Century is not on ProgArchives. Virtually everything since "Swordfishtrombones" (and some stuff before it) has exemplified Waits's gritty, avant-garde style that has cemented his reputation as a musical tour-de-force. He seems like an ideal candidate for RIO, as his most musically-similar counterpart, Captain Beefheart is listed under that label.
With regard to excluding him, I've heard the argument that because his first few albums were more jazzy and less proggy, he shouldn't be on here. In that case, we should exclude Miles Davis, as nothing prior to "In A Silent Way" was fusion.
Joined: April 05 2006
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Posted: October 15 2011 at 15:19
Prog is in the ear of the behearer. There is such diversity of music deemed Prog in the archives (the prog umbrella) that I think one is commonly on a very slippery slope when one creates an absolute prog/ non-prog divide -- especially when artists music can be diverse. What is Prog (in terms of all thee styles represented by all the groups/ artists in PA)? And how can a person be prog? A person can be male or female, Chinese or French, but Prog? And even if one means that person has made or not made Prog music, or commonly both with names in PA, who has the absulute truth?
As for if I think Tom Waits is suitable for any PA category (including Prog Related), I haven't heard enough of his music. My general opinion is that the Prog/ non Prog dichotomy is often overemphasized, and I prefer not to think of is something prog proper, but could it fit a category at PA. When someone is suggested and supported by quite a few as Tom Waits has been, I find it hard to belive that the case has no merit (has merit to those who suggested him which gives it merit to me despite any preconceived notions -- doesn't mean I'd approve something becuase of that if I were on a team, but I wouldn't easily dismiss it). You, Lazland, are probably much more famialir with his music than I, but we all bring our own biases and perspectives.
Edited by Logan - October 15 2011 at 15:23
"Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself" (The Prisoner, 1967).
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: October 15 2011 at 15:22
Logan wrote:
Prog is in the ear of the behearer. There is such diversity of music deemed Prog in the archives (the prog umbrella) that I think one is commonly on a very slippery slope when one creates an absolute pro/ non-prog divide -- especially when artists music can be diverse.
I don't think the divide is absolute, but as we're not prepared to catalog every musical artist that's ever lived, some boundaries are appropriate.
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: October 15 2011 at 15:28
Pat: I don't mean to imply otherwise, but the boundaries can be very hazy and limitations can be very subjective (sometimes depending upon too limited material one knows and a lack of understanding of the categories parameters as well as people having different perceptions of what can be prog umbrella music).
Some people have said that Miles Davis and Herbie Hancock should not be on this site; whereas I thought both essential JRF additions.
Edited by Logan - October 15 2011 at 15:31
"Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself" (The Prisoner, 1967).
Joined: December 31 2008
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Points: 24
Posted: October 15 2011 at 15:34
lazland wrote:
There is a very good reason why Waits is not on PROG Archives. It's because he's not prog!
But Deep Purple, The Beatles, Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, The Doors, Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Wishbone Ash, Black Sabbath, and Blue Öyster Cult are? As in all of them are more "progressive" than Tom Waits?
How exactly are we defining the differences between Avant-Garde rock and Avant Prog? Because it doesn't seem like there's anything separating the two other than that one category contains bands that members of this website may not like for whatever reason.
Edited by beaverteeth92 - October 15 2011 at 15:38
Joined: March 12 2005
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Points: 166183
Posted: October 15 2011 at 15:36
Snow Dog wrote:
lazland wrote:
There is a very good reason why Waits is not on PROG Archives. It's because he's not prog!
There is quite a lot of non prog in prog archives.
Just because that is the case that doesn't mean we should add more non prog.
Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Online
Points: 38303
Posted: October 15 2011 at 15:43
They're in Prog Related of course, which may be a good place for Tom Waits (though I wonder, quite doubt, if he could sufficiently fit the criteria for addtion there). Some purists say we should get rid of Prog Related.
Edited by Logan - October 15 2011 at 15:46
"Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself" (The Prisoner, 1967).
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166183
Posted: October 15 2011 at 15:52
beaverteeth92 wrote:
If that's the case, would you recommend removing non-prog artists like Blue Öyster Cult and Led Zeppelin?
Well yeah, I would prefer they weren't here but they aren't going to be removed. I don't like the PR category as a whole, but it's here so the best I can do is ignore it (and occasionally bitch about it. )
Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Tom Waits for RIO
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