90s "pop" music

Yes pop has bad connotations to some, for example, "I just popped one out", "Pop that monkey!", "Pop that booty", "Pop them pills", "If I don't pop soon I'm gonna explode", "I popped a pimple just to feel the ooze", "Iggy Pop", and "Shut up or I'm gonna have to pop a cap in your gargantuan gluteus maximus." I, however, who is a pop to two children, like lots of pop, including kinds of soda pop.    A lot of it is not really popular, but is so-called experimental pop, art pop, indie pop, or avant pop. Some really was popular, a lot of it is quite indie/ alternative.

So I'd include favourites of mine from the 90s such as Air, Stereolab, and Bjork.

Earlier today I was listening to the Cardigans, which rateyourmusic calls twee pop.



So what is some pop or poppy music that you like from the 90s? Of course that can cover a huge amount of music. Use your own discretion to define what are amorphous parameters when it comes to pop genres and poppy music.


BIG EDIT: I wrote this little essay (a little essay but a long post) later on in the thread due to discussion about the nature of pop and poppy music -- the various conceptions, parameters, expectations. As it can such a nebulous and much-encompassing thing, I think this topic needed more exploration. I am duplicating it here because many who don't read through the thread might still read to the opening post for clarification, and to understand intent. The first post sets the stage, but then all the world's a stage and we are merely players.

So, following future discussion, I will attempt to define pop music in various ways since I don't hold to any one definition and to me it is a very nebulous thing. It can mean different and many things (have different connotations). Note: I am no musicologist. I have done research into this, not as deeply as I would have liked, and shared related thoughts and inferences, plus some "unfunny humour" as I am wont to do (now there's an oxmoron, but then I am something of an oxy moron, oxy meaning sharp, and a moron being dull-witted, which presents its own oxymoronic quality).

First off, I wrote that this is about pop genres and poppy music, so I should define poppy.

Poppy: a flower, that thing worn on Remembrance Day that may poke you with that needle if you're not careful, or having pop-like qualities (GED - Greg's Egregious Dictionary)

Poppy, poppish, popesque, or popsiquescent if one prefers, or even popalicious.

Clearly to understand the notion of poppy, one must understand conceptions of pop music. There is overlap here:

1. Any music that is popular at a given time and has popular appeal (antonym: unpopular music). Mainstream music.*

* Note that some art pop artists, progressive pop artists, experimental pop artists,or avant pop artists (all can be conflated) sought to deconstruct pop music, to marry the popular with the esoteric, to elevate pop from its lowly roots to a serious art-form, or to create a dialectic between the low art and high art, a sort of conversation and synthesis of two worlds. Some of it is a celebration of the low, some of it is a commentary on the low arts and popular culture. Some is very conceptual. Some artists tried to buck the trends, played with genre bending, form and structure, and even set itself up against the mainstream and the industrial nature of pop manufacture, one might say Pop in Oppsition (PIO/ Avant Pop). Some pop music is more complex than others. There is music deemed pop that not only is not commercially successful but has limited commercial appeal. I will discuss some of these pop sub categories after this list, and talk more about that so-called pop music that might be seen as antithetical to pop.

2. Any music that is simple, has a strong beat, is catchy and is easy for the plebs to digest (antonyms: academic music, esoteric music).

3. Music that is designed to be quickly consumed, shallow, the fast food of music, and is ideal for certain radio formats (antonym: radio unfriendly deep gourmet but indigestible music).*

*Note: some pop is much more timeless, I'd say, than others, and can be deeply emotionally resonant and is more likely to be returned to again and again, and has achieved a classic status (others a cult status).

4. All music that has had popular appeal, including rock, punk, folk music, crooner music, jazzy music, New Wave, BootyWave etc. (antonym: non-popular unappealing music such as Hairy Booty Puddle).

5. Music distinct from rock and jazz that has a softer quality, is catchy and usually follows the verse, chorus, bridge structure (antonym: loud 'n heavy duty jazzcore brutal metal).

6. A modern music phenomenon with verse, chorus structure designed for the charts that is simple and included things such as soul and types of R&B (antonym: stone age rock on skull bonking, although that could provide the beat, hmm...).

7. Any music which is easily accessible to the listener (antonym: music that has been safely locked away).

8: To quote from ExittheLemming "short(er) musical forms* accessible by the widest possible audience with verse/chorus and middle eight structures, repeated 'hooks' at climactic points, consistent cyclic rhythms, craftsmanship rather than artistry, simple lyrical themes..." (antonym: EntertheLemming).

9. Justin Bieber's Baby, Baby, Baby Ooh" and that kind of crap. (antonym: Justin Bieber and that kind of good).

10. A diverse set of styles that fall under a pop banner, this includes art pop, sophisto pop, avant pop, chamber pop, baroque pop, lounge pop, jazz pop, pop-rock, pop-punk, bubbblesgum pop, psychedelic pop, pop electronica, experimental pop, sunshine pop, Arabic pop, K-pop, J-pop, Britpop, Raga pop, progressive pop, singer-songwriter and many, many more (antonym: a non-diverse,non-set of non-styles that fall under a non-pop banner).

11. All of the above and more (antonym: none of the above and less).

What these subcategories are thought to have in common is that they all draw on types of popular music and, generally, have accessible qualities . Some will hybridise with other genres, but still have a pop feel or keep popular music components, but the structure may be changed and experimented with.

Take Avant Pop and Experimental Pop for instance:

Avant Pop is considered to be music that is forward-thinking, innovative, and experimental. It is said to balance an avant garde approach or avant garde approaches with stylistic elements from popular music. It may hybridise avant garde and academic music styles with popular music styles. Commonly it can still be catchy while being different. Bands like Kraftwerk, Can, and Tangerine Dream have all been linked to avant pop, as have bands/artists such as Henry Cow, Slapp Happy, After Dinner, Electric Storm, and Laurie Anderson. So have Scott Walker, David Sylvian, Kate Bush, Nico, and Bjork. The Beatles "Tomorrow Never Knows" is considered an example of avant pop for how it incorporated musique concrete techniques, Indian elements, and avant garde techniques into a pop composition.

Art Pop is loosely defined,and can include a huge amount of music deemed artistic. It overlaps with avant pop and various other classifications. It has been defined as any pop style that deliberately aspires to the formal values of classical music and poetry. It is commonly linked to post-modernism and is said to be a breakdown of the boundaries between both high and low culture, and it plays with signs and signifiers, and so do memes (I still like LOL Cats).*

Note: Art is sometimes considered in contrast to industry, so art pop may not be as commercial, but much that is considered art pop was very commercially successful. Like pop itself, art pop has various connotations and parameterisations (those parameters being amorphous). I try not to box myself (that might give me a black eye) into what are essentially fuzzy boxes (boxes with no clear edges or boundaries, some that I might call hyperboxes, like tesseracts, get it?). Sometimes art is just a term used by snobs to elevate music they like,I might say. Wait,I just did say that. Art can be in the eye of the beholder and beheraer, but in some contexts art is held to be in contrast to industry (I wrote a paper called the Art of the Industry for Sociology about film, and spent much time talking about so-called Art House film. Mostly it was about ideology). Art Pop can be subversive, deconstructing pop conventions, and melding with other forms of music (notably that which is considered to be high-brow art music, or esoterica).

Progressive Pop is music that tries to break with the pop genre's standard formula. It can be likened to progressive rock that tried to break free of the constraints of the rock canon. Progressive pop may have extended instrumentation, break from traditional verse/chorus expectations bring in non-pop influences but still have an underlying pop aesthetic,or pop qualities. Unlike much pop, harmony, simple though pop harmonies ten to be, commonly is not its backing structure. It is generally more complex than other forms of pop, long songs are common, and some might call much of it progressive rock lite -- a crossover between the world of progressive rock and certain pop formats.

Experimental Pop can be difficult to categorise within traditional musical boundaries. It commonly pushes elements of existing popular forms into other forms, or new forms, to create something new and different (a hybridisation of forms), It often will utilise experimental music techniques such as those of musique concrete or incorporate unusual sounds into the music such as the sound of a fat man eating pork chops, or a baby sliding around the floor in a bacon diaper. It can experiment with form, sound, and technique.*

* I would place music such as Pink Floyd's "Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict" under this label.

Some pop can and will play with form a lot and draw on various genre inspirations while still having popular music qualities. Not all pop must be popular, some just draws on popular music styles, and can be musically related to pop genres. It can be sound, a structure, an approach, all three of those,and a measure of popularity. It can incorporate various styles,,and sometimes, I would say, you just have to experience it and related music. It can cover a huge amount of music. It is sometimes defined by what it is not, for instance, "It's not Academic Music", but it can aspire to academic music and draw on academic music. It is what it is, it is what it is not, and some might say that both statements can be true.

It can be a very amorphous label that can mean different things to different people and mean different things at different times. Some might say, it's silly to deal with all these labels, and we should just be talking about "music". Some will not associate some music with pop that others label pop, to which I would then ask, "How then would you classify and describe the music?" "What sorts of music would you relate it to?" "What do you think influenced it?"

With pop music having so many connotations, imagine how much music could be considered poppy/ poppish, popesque, popsiquescent?   For the purposes of this topic, I would say if you would describe the music as poppy, or of a pop genre, then it fits. I wanted to focus on certain styles of music that get associated with pop, but defining that is very open to interpretation. This why I put pop in quotes in the title and spoke of the amorphous qualities of both pop as genre classifications and in regards to poppy music. Pop is a mainstream music classification, refers to popular music, and has genre implications. There are those that draw on generic pop and play with the conventions and will not have mainstream success, some will. Experimental pop can still be catchy and accessible. Much of my favourite pop is playful.

Of course there are many other possible definitions I didn't add and there's much more to say. That said, I hope that clears things up a bit, or it may muddy things even more. Pop is like a box of chocolates, some is sickly sweet, some is bitter, and a lot might leave a bad taste in the mouth -- rather like soda pop. I would hate liver-flavored carbonated drinks. Pop is commonly catchy, but then so is the Corona Virus. I hear certain poppy music qualities that make me think pop when others might think, "That ain't what I call pop." I hold multiple conceptions of pop music, but pop to me is something of a feeling to the music, often that is associated with the singing, but some music I easily lump in under the pop umbrella that is completely instrumental. There are structural considerations and various associations to be made. I don't deeply intellectualise it (as may be all too apparent with this little essay). I associate it with other music that I think of as pop. It is a very associative process, and that's how I tend to think about music under the Prog Umbrella generally -- ProgUm and PopUm I coined such things as. Those catchy verses for me are often a sign, but there's more than that. It need not be simple, some pop music can be very emotionally resonant, it can be deep, much is hardly disposable and does stand the test of time and receives reputable critical acclaim, both at the time and decades later. Sometimes it's just plain fun for me, but some of it really does move me, and not just move my booty.

Hope that is illustrative.

Edited by Logan - April 19 2020 at 13:44

Tom Ozric wrote: Many of us snobbed 80’s Pop, nowadays many acts from that era actually have a lot of class and quality musicianship, songwriting skills etc. Maybe in 20 years time 90’s Pop will be regarded as sophisticated a rather complex, but not today Miley.

I'm not as interested in how certain types of people will regard it in 20 years as what people think of varieties of 90s pop music now.   This was meant to be an appreciation thread and topic for exploring music. I dislike a lot of pop, but I love various art pop, avant pop, and indie pop. Pop music is a very broad label that can encompass a wide variety of expression. Which is not to that I'm averse to having such a discussion with you and others provided we all try to keep an open mind. I enjoy dialectic on all manner of things.

If you mean Miley Cyrus, she wan born in the 90s, and was a 2000s thing, but that's not at all the kind of music I've been getting into from the 90s. It's not particularly sophisticated music, if I want that then I listen to academic/ art music, never thought Prog is as sophisticated as many proggers claim, but for me there's plenty of art pop and avant pop from the 80s, 90s and up that I like. I don't think of bands like Dream Theater, or Yes, when I think erudite. The first track off Stereolab's Emperor Tomato Ketchup, which is classified as an art pop album, sounds more like Can than the likes of Miley Cyrus et al (not that I'd call Can erudite).



I personally don't care much about what other people will think in 20 years time, I'd rather let my own ears decide now.

I like stuff like this:







And the ambient loungey pop of this:



We have the pop of Tori Amos in PA, and Bjork has an entry of course. It's a wide field, a loose classification. with diverse expression. I would hope that the sophisticated liberal-minded people at PA will be open-minded and open-eared, and dare I say, progressive and adventurous. Is that Cardigans song much less sophisticated than a lot of music Prog bands were making in the 90s,as so it will be twenty years before such music is likely to be appreciated by the cognoscenti (not that Prog itself gets a lot of respect from a huge many music academics and intellectuals that I know of)?

Hell, I loved many experimental art pop artists back in the 80s, such as this from 1981, or art pop albums like Laurie Anderson's Big Science. I couldn't have cared less if such pop wasn't generally respected back then, although I think art pop has long had respect amongst certain types.



Anybody who would be dismissive of any and all pop of the 90s, including art pop, is on a totally different wavelength from me, but perhaps my tastes are just not as sophisticated as others, but wait, Crossover is quite a popular category and lot of Prog could be called pop (some would say all of it),and many Prog artists made pop-genre music. I think I have diverse tastes from sophisticated classical music, to electronic, to jazz, to folk, to psychedelic, to forms of rock, to kinds of pop. I try not to let labels dictate my tastes, even if certain things like metal, AOR, country and rap tend not to float my boat (I will find exceptions). Of its I think it;s because such people will not have explored it in depth, and just think of certain kinds of hits that they dislike.


Edited by Logan - April 17 2020 at 21:21

Edited by ExittheLemming - April 18 2020 at 04:05

^ Barbarella said, "A Good many dramatic situations begin with screaming." I say that some of the most lengthy of posts can be set-off with a little dick-stirring. I think pop is such a huge category that one include rock, folk of course, metal, polka. A lot of progressive pop is a hybridisation of styles, much like Prog. I;m always interested in exploring ideas (even if my ideas in return are not well thought-out or expressed), so actually appreciate the chance to delve into my related thoughts cum vortex of madness. Forums are for fun more than anything to me.

^^ I liked that The Sundays track, thanks for sharing. I'm loosely reminded, only very loosely mind you so don't read much into it, of another pop song by a pop artist I like, Kate Bush's Lionheart. Yes, an admittedly vapid comment.

^^^ Ah, yes, I like REM, and some grunge.

One I liked in the 90s was various pop-rock of the B-52's.

And while I wasn't that big on 90s music in the 90s, I liked pop music such as Eels' "Beautiful Freak", The Cardigans' "Celia Inside", some Bjork....



A reason why I begun exploring it was because I found an old Chris Moris radio black comedy online called "Blue Jam" from the 90s. At first I just wanted to listen to the "sketches" (could be very dark indeed), but I then found myself listening to the music. That's how I got into Stereolab, and why I decided to put on the Cardigans today. It's even given me some new appreciation for some techno music that I was dismissive of in the 90s, such as the Orb. The context of how and where you hear something can make a big difference.

By the way, as we were speaking of complexity, while I like plenty of complex music (especially of the classical/academic music ilk), I also like some really simple music, especially when it comes to folk music. Vashti's "Winter is Blue" is a pretty good example. I definitely like a variety in my diet. I've never been much of a rocker, I do like some really heavy music, but I have tended to gravitate to the gentler sides of music (pastoral for instance), despite having been very into experimental and often dissonant and out there music. My first love was classical music. Commonly I like quirky in a variety of art forms.

Edited by Logan - April 17 2020 at 22:06

I like Björk, but I think she made her two greatest albums in 2000: Medulla & Vespertine. Some of her electro nineties sounds have been recently too much for me, really love quite organic sounds of those albums I mentioned! I think I listened some nineties pop in nineties (for example Stereo Total and The Cardigans) but not that much today. I prefer lot more from the nineties artists like Sonic Youth, Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, Nomeasno, Trumans Water, Thinking Fellers Union Local 282, P J Harvey, Melt-Banana & U.S. Maple.

When was Kula Shaker around ?   I didn’t mind their debut I think it was - a psychedelic one....??

There is the interesting sounds of trip-hop also mostly of 90s origin, Massive Attack, Portishead and more And the early post-rock Tortoise, Goodspeed My Black Emperor whom saw some widespread appeal.

^ Plenty for me to check out there, thanks David. EDIT: actually, one of those I had heard music from that I remember, Robyn Hitchcock’s Eye. I'm really big on psych folk of course. Good psych folk/ psych pop.

Icarium wrote: There is the interesting sounds of trip-hop also mostly of 90s origin, Massive Attack, Portishead and more And the early post-rock Tortoise, Goodspeed My Black Emperor whom saw some widespread appeal.

Funny you mention that, I was thinking about such things when I likened that "not Japanese" Mono track, which is also a trip-hop album, to Portishead, which got me associating with post-rock. This kind of thing happens a lot. Portishead definitely has a musical relation to quite a bit of the 90s stuff I've explored and was planning to post this.



By the way, Morttementioned PJ Harvey, but I would have mentioned these very popular ones.





Edited by Logan - April 18 2020 at 03:12

Logan wrote: ^ Plenty for me to check out there, thanks David. Icarium wrote: There is the interesting sounds of trip-hop also mostly of 90s origin, Massive Attack, Portishead and more And the early post-rock Tortoise, Goodspeed My Black Emperor whom saw some widespread appeal. Funny you mention that, I was thinking about such things when I likened that "not Japanese" Mono track, which is also a trip-hop album, to Portishead, which got me associating with post-rock. This kind of thing happens a lot. Portishead definitely has a musical relation to quite a bit of the 90s stuff I've explored and was planning to post this. By the way, Morttementioned PJ Harvey, but I would have mentioned these very popular ones.

Really great pieces, Portishead has never been as big as P J to me, but Sour Times is one of the greatest tracks from them!

^^ Yeah, I really love "Sour Times". That and PJ Harvey's The River have got quite a bit of play from me over the past six months. Partially because both songs featured in this 90s dark comedy with music radio program that I have streamed many times. That got me checking out so much music.

^^ Yep, Moby I like too, things like "Everything is Wrong" and early Verve is good from what I've heard, as is Motorpsycho (though I don't know Motorpsycho as well as I probably should).

One on the periphery of pop from the 90s, but certainly was very popular is Beck.