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Soulman View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Inspiration
    Posted: March 16 2005 at 00:31
I thought I'd have a heart to heart talk with all you musicians on this forum. I'm a developing musician. I just wanna make music and be noticed; I have no need to be famous. Just get that confusion out of the way.

But anways, I was wondering how you musician's whom write and compose their own songs get your inspiration from and how you're able to maintain your originality. Often times when you play an instrument you get so used to playing a certain "way" or playing certain licks even when soloing that your playing becomes in itself, a cliche. You can even notice this when you can distinguish the sound of different bands. Though for myself, I prefer to stay to original and try coming up with something entirely different most of the time. I was wondering how you musicians would achieve that.

Albeit, this is a really loose topic, and I'm not sure if you guys know what I'm talking about.
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sigod View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2005 at 06:12
That's a really interesting question Soulman and I will post something on this later today.

Your attitude towards music does you great credit, I must say.


Edited by sigod
I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2005 at 06:15
Licks ?? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2005 at 07:18

I use three main methods;

1) Work with others.

This works exceptionally well, if you find someone that you can "spark" off. The best way to work with others is to listen a lot and hold back as much as you can - until real inspiration hits!

2) Play along with records/CDs.

I think just about everyone does this - but it's amazing what can happen simply by pinching a lick or two from a recording. I tend to end up incorporating certain licks into what I like to think is my own style and generally people don't seem to notice...

3) Study music in depth with a tutor.

This option can take the rock'n'roll out of it if you're not careful, so you need a tutor who is sensitive to your learning needs. There is always option 3a), which is learn a different instrument or a different aspect of music with a tutor - it's amazing how inspirational this can be.

 

Finally, just listen to lots of music - live as well as recorded - and try not to limit what you listen to. The broader your musical base, the more varied your style is likely to become.  

But you don't need anyone to tell you to do that, now...

 

My own methods of composition are varied - I like writing scores (generally starting with piano reductions, then expanding them for whatever resources I can get to perform them), but I much prefer the rock'n'roll style of just going into the studio, cranking up the axe and noodling around (with the computer in Record mode!) until something drops out that I like. I then build on that as intuitively as I can - only resorting to analysis once the inspiration has run out.

Generally I go into a studio with a particular style in mind - a kind of anchor post or a framework, not a rigid plan. I always seem to end up cranking out a 3-chorder, however...  Still - it's amazing what you can do with a couple of effects and a keyboard or two.



Edited by Certif1ed
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Jim Garten View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2005 at 07:52
Soulman - very good thread, I must say, makes one think what you are doing, and why.

I would say from the start, I am no great shakes as a musician, only having been learning for just under two years so far, but I would wholeheartedly agree with Cert's comments above - to take them in the same order:

1) Work with others: this is the best way to develop your playing, and to gain inspiration from fellow players; you may have been practicing that favorite riff for ages thinking "it's not quiiiiiite there" - one comment from somebody else, and it all clicks into place. Free-jams are great fun, too - very important!

2) Play along with records/CD's: You've not mentioned which is your instrument of choice, but as a (developing) keyboard player, I have found this method of learning to be a real benefit - my own personal favorite is to find some slow three piece blues, and to try to lay keyboard lines over it (early Stevie Ray vaughan works well for this).

3) Study music in depth with a tutor: True, this can take the 'rock & roll' element away, but you have to walk before running; a good tutor will take you through a steadily progressing course, developing technique, sight reading and timing. Once you have these basics down, you can begin to improvise (which again, a good tutor will encourage).

Finally, and most imporantly, ENJOY PLAYING!

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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sigod View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2005 at 08:51
^ Excellent advice from some wise heads.

For what it's worth, I would like to add the following:

Listening to the music of your heroes is great for getting the energy levels up but sometimes can lead to imitation rather than emulation. Just remember to produce something that you can call your own. I know that comes hard in a genre that can all too often fall prey to repeating itself but there is still music out there that is untouched by human hands. It's just waiting for the right people to wake up and play it.

Practice: It's sometimes the dullest thing you can do and again you could be in danger of becoming a 'clone' of your heroes/teacher but in truth, any tutor worth his or her salt will make sure that they nurture your individuality as well as your technique. Personally, I used a drum tutor in the early years to learn rudiments and how to hold a stick properly but as a guitarist I have learned my scales/modes/chord theory largely from books. As a result, I’m sure my technique is appalling but it seems to do the job to my satisfaction. In addition, a little technique will do wonders for your ability to write melody lines and navigate around your chosen instrument. Above all, technique should be a means to an end and not an end in itself.

Never underestimate the power of happy accidents. Random events can often shape the sound or style of your playing and can lead to something that you often call your very own. A good example of this would be Spock's Beard guitarist Alan Morse who was told by brother Neal that he would never be able to play guitar with a pick and so developed a totally unique way of playing using is forefinger which he 'flicks' over the stings. Thus an identity was born.

In addition to this, mistakes while writing can often lead to new sounds and styles. The opening feedback to the Beatles 'I Feel Fine' began when a guitar was left against the amp and droned in the same key to the song. Lennon loved it and asked if it could be included in the track and the accident was incorporated into the opening of the song.

I'm sure there's so much more to say but I have to go and feed my Mellotron to some sheep and record the results
..






 


Edited by sigod
I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2005 at 12:37
Originally posted by sigod sigod wrote:

Never underestimate the power of happy accidents. Random events can often shape
the sound or style of your playing and can lead to something that you often
call your very own.


Note - this does not necessarily mean the random jazz noodlings which occur when your cat decides daddy isn't taking enough notice, jumps on the Hammond and decides to 'join in'.

I usually find hitting a low 'C' on bass pedals whilst flooring the swell pedal gets rid of the little bugger for a while

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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sigod View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2005 at 17:01
Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Originally posted by sigod sigod wrote:

Never underestimate the power of happy accidents. Random events can often shape
the sound or style of your playing and can lead to something that you often
call your very own.


Note - this does not necessarily mean the random jazz noodlings which occur when your cat decides daddy isn't taking enough notice, jumps on the Hammond and decides to 'join in'.

I usually find hitting a low 'C' on bass pedals whilst flooring the swell pedal gets rid of the little bugger for a while


Agreed on all counts.
 

Edited by sigod
I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill
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Dan Bobrowski View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2005 at 17:50

Playing with yourself just doesn't get it. You should always play with others.  My wife and I play with each other at least two or three times a week. One must always ask permission before playing with others outside of marriage. You just don't want any misunderstandings.

Always run a tape if you are trying to formulate ideas, they tend to escape quickly, especially as you grow older. When working on lyrics.... always write 'em down immediately. Keep a pen and paper or tape recorder nearby, even at night. It's amazing how useful things just come from nowhere. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2005 at 02:51

Great tip, Danbo! - The number of times I've kicked myself for not writing a lyric idea down as soon as I think of it....

According to legend, Freddie Mercury had a piano as the headboard for his bed, so that he could immediately play ideas he had during the night. I also understand he taught himself to play it whilst lying on his back.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2005 at 03:12
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

According to legend, Freddie Mercury had a piano as the headboard for his bed, so that he could immediately play ideas he had during the night. I also understand he taught himself to play it whilst lying on his back


There must be a joke there somewhere, but I'm not looking for it

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2005 at 08:31

OBLIQUE STRATEGIES
I have a photocopied sheet of Brian Eno & Peter Schmidt's Oblique Strategies pinned to my 'studio' wall.
If you are not familiar with Oblique Strategies it was a device for writer's block thought-up by Eno & Schmidt around 1977.You choose a card from the pack and do what the card says ie Use filters/Do the washing-up/work backwards etc.etc. As I said,I have a photocopied version and have pinned it to a dartboard and, when necessary,throw darts at it.
It works very well for me.
Now then.What do I do n...


Edited by Man Erg

Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2005 at 14:26

John Cage came up with some similar methods back in the 1930s - he stuck tape at different levels to a goldfish tank. If a goldfish went to a particular level, he used ideas associated with that level. If it stayed there for a long time, he expanded the ideas for a long time.

For a simple example, you could decide that each piece of tape represented a note. If the fish swam to a particular level quickly, the music would ascend quickly. The possibilities are... daft

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2005 at 15:59

Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

According to legend, Freddie Mercury had a piano as the headboard for his bed, so that he could immediately play ideas he had during the night. I also understand he taught himself to play it whilst lying on his back


There must be a joke there somewhere, but I'm not looking for it

 

Lol, I thought of a joke but I had better not say it, very lol after a beer or 10.

As a guitar/music theory tutor, I would agree with all the posts above. The hardest part is developing your own style. To learn techniques you need to learn them from other players first, otherwise its a boring way of learning, at the end of the day, you learn an instrument from influence from the music you like.

Learn other players styles/techniques and through improvisation you will develop your own way of doing it.

When I am in a different state of conscienceness, I will post some more!!

Don't eat the yellow snow!!!!!
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synthguy View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2005 at 18:39
Excellent thread. Tons of great suggestions.
I'm going through a period of writers block myself, so
this discussion was helpful.
Improvisation is, for me, the best way to come up with
new material and ideas. Also, I record EVERYTHING. Just
in case there is a "happy accident" (actually I hope for
one, since regular accidents s*ck and are the norm.).
Whenever I try to be "original", inevitably, the
results are poor. I cannot force creativity. "One cannot
simply say, "today I will be brilliant".
I digress. Follow your heart. That's where is music is.

Edited by synthguy
Wearing feelings on our faces when our faces took a rest...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2005 at 21:23

In my early days of drumming I actually had two teachers, from very different styles of play.

One was a jazz theorist, who taught me fundamentals of jazz and basic techniques and the other was a friend of the late John Bonham, named Troy Harms, who oddly enough played in my mothers church band. It was he who opened up my mind to White, Peart, etc, even taking me to the Yes "Big Generator" Concert.  I took with me the foundations of these teachers and  together with my own influences ( Toto, Boston, Rush, Queensryche) I developed a jazz based rock style that worked extremely well during my band days in the '80's.

I stood at the door to a new beginning
the future called and frightened I turned away
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2005 at 02:18

My best ideas come at night when I let my mind wander as I drift into sleep. They're usually full-band out-and-out instrumentals which are brilliant but never to be seen or heard from again. Kind of like a good dream...

I'm trying to learn to read music right now, and I've laid out a chart and labelled each fret and its corresponding line or space on the bass clef. Any tips for learning to read music?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2005 at 22:58
I haven't played any of my own music (part of it may be because I don't have a band or know how to write music well)  but I constantly think about music and may from time to time play around with it on my bass or synth.  My inspiration when I think about music is usually derived from human emotions and what emotions I want to evoke.  I also derive some ideas from historical events and things I believe strongly (I like the idea of protest songs) but I don't write lyrics. I want to create these thoughts and emotions purely through sound, no matter how difficult it may be
"O' lady look up in time o' lady look out of love
'n you should have us all
O' you should have us fall"
"Bill's Corpse" By Captain Beefheart
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2005 at 23:19

Didnt read the above, but in terms of personal inspiration when i sit down and think "I want to write something" it usually means something to me. I never bring it up when "jamming" with my fellows. These things i write on my own i feel as if i need to be in complete control of them, down to the last note. Its like doing the parts of a painting im capable of and then hiring different artists to do exactly what i tell them. I suppose for that stuff i need to learn a lot of intruments.

But for the sessions, we go in with ideas or just a lick or riff. We play and then just go from there, we take the bits we like and hammer them out, perfect them if you would. I find this kind of thing very spiritual personally. You interact with these people on a level that is rarely encontered in the human experiance. you are trying to work as a single entity lending what you can to the whole. I love it. Just playing what fits the mood and what the group is doing.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2005 at 01:40
^^

I totally agree with what you say there Hangedman.

It's often hard to be able to express what you want through music unless you are the one who are playing the instruments. Even when writing a score (which I hope to do some day ) for an orchestra you will have dozens of individuals playing the instruments in a way that expresses themselves. It's hard to get originality out of an individual that is only a slave to their own character. Though with different indivuals playing what you play, it can be original; but it is not "you" in the sense that you play the music as the painter paints with his own paints and paintbrushes.  However it never stops one from trying to learn more instruments and develop a true expression of a musician in a recording. Let the score be the canvas, the instruments be the paint brushes,  and the sounds be the paints. On the off hand, what with the advancements in synthesizing, the day that one can play all their own instruments in a song may come close at hand for the pianist.

Although I accept that originality will not always come from oneself alone. That is why a band comes in handy. It's awesome connecting and playing together musically. It is how you said as spiritual. Only those who play music with others can come to understanding.

The very first time my friend and I jammed out (a standard 12 bar blues tune with soloing and stuff. we were faking it then ), it was crazy feeling. We were just kind of looking at each other smiling and kind of laughing, because it was so weird. Just coming together with a single vision. However it takes a while to develop a really good bond with bandmates.

Anyways enough of my rant. Keep posting please
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