Inspiration
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4342
Printed Date: November 26 2024 at 06:04 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Inspiration
Posted By: Soulman
Subject: Inspiration
Date Posted: March 16 2005 at 00:31
I thought I'd have a heart to heart talk with all you musicians on this
forum. I'm a developing musician. I just wanna make music and be
noticed; I have no need to be famous. Just get that confusion out of
the way.
But anways, I was wondering how you musician's whom write and compose
their own songs get your inspiration from and how you're able to
maintain your originality. Often times when you play an instrument you
get so used to playing a certain "way" or playing certain licks even
when soloing that your playing becomes in itself, a cliche. You can
even notice this when you can distinguish the sound of different bands.
Though for myself, I prefer to stay to original and try coming up with
something entirely different most of the time. I was wondering how you
musicians would achieve that.
Albeit, this is a really loose topic, and I'm not sure if you guys know what I'm talking about.
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Replies:
Posted By: sigod
Date Posted: March 16 2005 at 06:12
That's a really interesting question Soulman and I will post something on this later today.
Your attitude towards music does you great credit, I must say.
------------- I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill
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Posted By: Velvetclown
Date Posted: March 16 2005 at 06:15
Licks ??
------------- Billy Connolly
Dream Theater
Terry Gilliam
Hagen Quartet
Jethro Tull
Mike Keneally
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: March 16 2005 at 07:18
I use three main methods;
1) Work with others.
This works exceptionally well, if you find someone that you can "spark" off. The best way to work with others is to listen a lot and hold back as much as you can - until real inspiration hits!
2) Play along with records/CDs.
I think just about everyone does this - but it's amazing what can happen simply by pinching a lick or two from a recording. I tend to end up incorporating certain licks into what I like to think is my own style and generally people don't seem to notice...
3) Study music in depth with a tutor.
This option can take the rock'n'roll out of it if you're not careful, so you need a tutor who is sensitive to your learning needs. There is always option 3a), which is learn a different instrument or a different aspect of music with a tutor - it's amazing how inspirational this can be.
Finally, just listen to lots of music - live as well as recorded - and try not to limit what you listen to. The broader your musical base, the more varied your style is likely to become.
But you don't need anyone to tell you to do that, now...
My own methods of composition are varied - I like writing scores (generally starting with piano reductions, then expanding them for whatever resources I can get to perform them), but I much prefer the rock'n'roll style of just going into the studio, cranking up the axe and noodling around (with the computer in Record mode!) until something drops out that I like. I then build on that as intuitively as I can - only resorting to analysis once the inspiration has run out.
Generally I go into a studio with a particular style in mind - a kind of anchor post or a framework, not a rigid plan. I always seem to end up cranking out a 3-chorder, however... Still - it's amazing what you can do with a couple of effects and a keyboard or two.
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: March 16 2005 at 07:52
Soulman - very good thread, I must say, makes one think what you are doing, and why.
I would say from the start, I am no great shakes as a musician, only having been learning for just under two years so far, but I would wholeheartedly agree with Cert's comments above - to take them in the same order:
1) Work with others: this is the best way to develop your playing, and to gain inspiration from fellow players; you may have been practicing that favorite riff for ages thinking "it's not quiiiiiite there" - one comment from somebody else, and it all clicks into place. Free-jams are great fun, too - very important!
2) Play along with records/CD's: You've not mentioned which is your instrument of choice, but as a (developing) keyboard player, I have found this method of learning to be a real benefit - my own personal favorite is to find some slow three piece blues, and to try to lay keyboard lines over it (early Stevie Ray vaughan works well for this).
3) Study music in depth with a tutor: True, this can take the 'rock & roll' element away, but you have to walk before running; a good tutor will take you through a steadily progressing course, developing technique, sight reading and timing. Once you have these basics down, you can begin to improvise (which again, a good tutor will encourage).
Finally, and most imporantly, ENJOY PLAYING!
-------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Posted By: sigod
Date Posted: March 16 2005 at 08:51
^ Excellent advice from some wise heads.
For what it's worth, I would like to add the
following:
Listening to the music of your heroes is great for getting the energy levels up
but sometimes can lead to imitation rather than emulation. Just remember to
produce something that you can call your own. I know that comes hard in a genre
that can all too often fall prey to repeating itself but there is still music
out there that is untouched by human hands. It's just waiting for the right
people to wake up and play it.
Practice: It's sometimes the dullest thing you can do and again you could be in
danger of becoming a 'clone' of your heroes/teacher but in truth, any tutor
worth his or her salt will make sure that they nurture your individuality as
well as your technique. Personally, I used a drum tutor in the early years to
learn rudiments and how to hold a stick properly but as a guitarist I have
learned my scales/modes/chord theory largely from books. As a result, I’m
sure my technique is appalling but it seems to do the job to my satisfaction.
In addition, a little technique will do wonders for your ability to write
melody lines and navigate around your chosen instrument. Above all, technique
should be a means to an end and not an end in itself.
Never underestimate the power of happy accidents. Random events can often shape
the sound or style of your playing and can lead to something that you often
call your very own. A good example of this would be Spock's Beard guitarist
Alan Morse who was told by brother Neal that he would never be able to play
guitar with a pick and so developed a totally unique way of playing using is
forefinger which he 'flicks' over the stings. Thus an identity was born.
In addition to this, mistakes while writing can often lead to new sounds and
styles. The opening feedback to the Beatles 'I Feel Fine' began when a guitar
was left against the amp and droned in the same key to the song. Lennon loved
it and asked if it could be included in the track and the accident was
incorporated into the opening of the song.
I'm sure there's so much more to say but I have to go and feed my Mellotron to
some sheep and record the results..
------------- I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: March 16 2005 at 12:37
sigod wrote:
Never underestimate the power of happy accidents. Random events can often shape
the sound or style of your playing and can lead to something that you often
call your very own. |
Note - this does not necessarily mean the random jazz noodlings which occur when your cat decides daddy isn't taking enough notice, jumps on the Hammond and decides to 'join in'.
I usually find hitting a low 'C' on bass pedals whilst flooring the swell pedal gets rid of the little bugger for a while
-------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Posted By: sigod
Date Posted: March 16 2005 at 17:01
Jim Garten wrote:
sigod wrote:
Never underestimate the power of happy accidents. Random events can often shape
the sound or style of your playing and can lead to something that you often
call your very own. |
Note - this does not necessarily mean the random jazz noodlings
which occur when your cat decides daddy isn't taking enough notice,
jumps on the Hammond and decides to 'join in'.
I usually find hitting a low 'C' on bass pedals whilst flooring the swell pedal gets rid of the little bugger for a while |
Agreed on all counts.
------------- I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill
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Posted By: Dan Bobrowski
Date Posted: March 16 2005 at 17:50
Playing with yourself just doesn't get it. You should always play with others. My wife and I play with each other at least two or three times a week. One must always ask permission before playing with others outside of marriage. You just don't want any misunderstandings.
Always run a tape if you are trying to formulate ideas, they tend to escape quickly, especially as you grow older. When working on lyrics.... always write 'em down immediately. Keep a pen and paper or tape recorder nearby, even at night. It's amazing how useful things just come from nowhere.
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: March 17 2005 at 02:51
Great tip, Danbo! - The number of times I've kicked myself for not writing a lyric idea down as soon as I think of it....
According to legend, Freddie Mercury had a piano as the headboard for his bed, so that he could immediately play ideas he had during the night. I also understand he taught himself to play it whilst lying on his back.
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: March 17 2005 at 03:12
Certif1ed wrote:
According to legend, Freddie Mercury had a piano as the headboard for his bed, so that he could immediately play ideas he had during the night. I also understand he taught himself to play it whilst lying on his back |
There must be a joke there somewhere, but I'm not looking for it
-------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Posted By: Man Erg
Date Posted: March 18 2005 at 08:31
OBLIQUE STRATEGIES
I have a photocopied sheet of Brian Eno & Peter Schmidt's Oblique Strategies pinned to my 'studio' wall.
If you are not familiar with Oblique Strategies it was a device for writer's block thought-up by Eno & Schmidt around 1977.You choose a card from the pack and do what the card says ie Use filters/Do the washing-up/work backwards etc.etc. As I said,I have a photocopied version and have pinned it to a dartboard and, when necessary,throw darts at it.
It works very well for me.
Now then.What do I do n...
-------------
Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb.
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: March 18 2005 at 14:26
John Cage came up with some similar methods back in the 1930s - he stuck tape at different levels to a goldfish tank. If a goldfish went to a particular level, he used ideas associated with that level. If it stayed there for a long time, he expanded the ideas for a long time.
For a simple example, you could decide that each piece of tape represented a note. If the fish swam to a particular level quickly, the music would ascend quickly. The possibilities are... daft
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Posted By: clemdallaway
Date Posted: March 18 2005 at 15:59
Jim Garten wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
According to legend, Freddie Mercury had a piano as the headboard for his bed, so that he could immediately play ideas he had during the night. I also understand he taught himself to play it whilst lying on his back |
There must be a joke there somewhere, but I'm not looking for it |
Lol, I thought of a joke but I had better not say it, very lol after a beer or 10.
As a guitar/music theory tutor, I would agree with all the posts above. The hardest part is developing your own style. To learn techniques you need to learn them from other players first, otherwise its a boring way of learning, at the end of the day, you learn an instrument from influence from the music you like.
Learn other players styles/techniques and through improvisation you will develop your own way of doing it.
When I am in a different state of conscienceness, I will post some more!!
------------- Don't eat the yellow snow!!!!!
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Posted By: synthguy
Date Posted: March 18 2005 at 18:39
Excellent thread. Tons of great suggestions.
I'm going through a period of writers block myself, so
this discussion was helpful.
Improvisation is, for me, the best way to come up with
new material and ideas. Also, I record EVERYTHING. Just
in case there is a "happy accident" (actually I hope for
one, since regular accidents s*ck and are the norm.).
Whenever I try to be "original", inevitably, the
results are poor. I cannot force creativity. "One cannot
simply say, "today I will be brilliant".
I digress. Follow your heart. That's where is music is.
------------- Wearing feelings on our faces when our faces took a rest...
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Posted By: etigger
Date Posted: March 25 2005 at 21:23
In my early days of drumming I actually had two teachers, from very different styles of play.
One was a jazz theorist, who taught me fundamentals of jazz and basic techniques and the other was a friend of the late John Bonham, named Troy Harms, who oddly enough played in my mothers church band. It was he who opened up my mind to White, Peart, etc, even taking me to the Yes "Big Generator" Concert. I took with me the foundations of these teachers and together with my own influences ( Toto, Boston, Rush, Queensryche) I developed a jazz based rock style that worked extremely well during my band days in the '80's.
------------- I stood at the door to a new beginning
the future called and frightened I turned away
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Posted By: penguindf12
Date Posted: March 26 2005 at 02:18
My best ideas come at night when I let my mind wander as I drift into sleep. They're usually full-band out-and-out instrumentals which are brilliant but never to be seen or heard from again. Kind of like a good dream...
I'm trying to learn to read music right now, and I've laid out a chart and labelled each fret and its corresponding line or space on the bass clef. Any tips for learning to read music?
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Posted By: aqualung28
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 22:58
I haven't played any of my own music (part of it may be because I don't have a band or know how to write music well) but I constantly think about music and may from time to time play around with it on my bass or synth. My inspiration when I think about music is usually derived from human emotions and what emotions I want to evoke. I also derive some ideas from historical events and things I believe strongly (I like the idea of protest songs) but I don't write lyrics. I want to create these thoughts and emotions purely through sound, no matter how difficult it may be
------------- "O' lady look up in time o' lady look out of love
'n you should have us all
O' you should have us fall"
"Bill's Corpse" By Captain Beefheart
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Posted By: Hangedman
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 23:19
Didnt read the above, but in terms of personal inspiration when i sit down and think "I want to write something" it usually means something to me. I never bring it up when "jamming" with my fellows. These things i write on my own i feel as if i need to be in complete control of them, down to the last note. Its like doing the parts of a painting im capable of and then hiring different artists to do exactly what i tell them. I suppose for that stuff i need to learn a lot of intruments.
But for the sessions, we go in with ideas or just a lick or riff. We play and then just go from there, we take the bits we like and hammer them out, perfect them if you would. I find this kind of thing very spiritual personally. You interact with these people on a level that is rarely encontered in the human experiance. you are trying to work as a single entity lending what you can to the whole. I love it. Just playing what fits the mood and what the group is doing.
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Posted By: Soulman
Date Posted: March 29 2005 at 01:40
^^
I totally agree with what you say there Hangedman.
It's often hard to be able to express what you want through music
unless you are the one who are playing the instruments. Even when
writing a score (which I hope to do some day )
for an orchestra you will have dozens of individuals playing the
instruments in a way that expresses themselves. It's hard to get
originality out of an individual that is only a slave to their own
character. Though with different indivuals playing what you play, it
can be original; but it is not "you" in the sense that you play the
music as the painter paints with his own paints and paintbrushes.
However it never stops one from trying to learn more instruments and
develop a true expression of a musician in a recording. Let the score
be the canvas, the instruments be the paint brushes, and the
sounds be the paints. On the off hand, what with the advancements in
synthesizing, the day that one can play all their own instruments in a
song may come close at hand for the pianist.
Although I accept that originality will not always come from oneself
alone. That is why a band comes in handy. It's awesome connecting and
playing together musically. It is how you said as spiritual. Only those
who play music with others can come to understanding.
The very first time my friend and I jammed out (a standard 12 bar blues tune with soloing and stuff. we were faking it then ),
it was crazy feeling. We were just kind of looking at each other
smiling and kind of laughing, because it was so weird. Just coming
together with a single vision. However it takes a while to develop a
really good bond with bandmates.
Anyways enough of my rant. Keep posting please
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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: April 03 2005 at 01:23
I dont know if this will help, most, if not all, has been posted before. But here i go:
Play constanly. I have found that playing alot really helps. Start with a basic "beat" and go form there. Just play around with the music. Let it lead. Try new things when playing, if there bad, just go back and try again. If there good, go with it. The main thing is to have fun with it. It is wise to take breaks and do other things. You never know what can give you inspiration. I've been influenced by movie lines, conversations with people, and other various, random things that i ran into in my everyday life.
Listen to music, and alot of it. I spend alot of hours listenign to music. It doesn't matter what it is, as long as you like it. I have had some of the best jam sesions after listening to music. It is always good to incorporate what you've heard into your music. As the others have said, play along with the music. That is one of the best ways to learn different ways of playing.
Carry paper and a pen around at all times. Things will come to you at the oddest of times. WRITE THING DOWN. I know it has been said, that is some of the best advice you can give anyone. You will forget things. It sucks, but it will happen. It's happened to me alot, and i hate it when it does. Some of my best material comes when just thinking/singing randomly.
Think about it often. I am always singing and thinking about various riffs and such. Hum, sing, dancem do whatever is nessacary. When I just babble on and on, i come up with the best lyric and beats.
Don't put pressure on yourself. Don;t make yourself think of something. Let it come naturally. Go with the flow, they say. It's good advice. Explore, explore, explore.
A few of those things may be extreme, but hey, they help. Believe me. I hope i was of some assistance to you in your musical journey.
------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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