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oliverstoned View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2005 at 15:05
Originally posted by goose goose wrote:


Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

Hi goose,

it seems that there's some "supersonic noise" on CD from 20 to 40 khz

From audioholics.com:


"As you can see, there is no such thing as "absolute silence", even
on a digital rip off the CD. Note, though, that there is a cliff drop
at around 22kHz. Note also the rising noise below 1kHz and the "hump"
around 20kHz. This is same bit, but as played back by the SCD-XA777ES
via the analog outputs:
The Sony played back the "silence" reasonably well. including the rise at the bottom end and the hump around 20kHz.
However, note that additional ultrasonic noise between 20-40kHz has now crept in at around -108dB. "


OK, I don't know enough to disagree. Maybe someone should invent a
filter/processer to connect between the CD player and the amp to remove
anything over 22k...


Yes, i've already think of something like that.

Maybe it would be better, but the gap will be never filled between analog and numeric (and 24 bits technology will not change this, unfortunately)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2005 at 22:08
i used that psolderbit program, and it was pretty good.. im by no means an audiophile, so i just use audacity now, and reocord the stuff, filter out some of the crackle, and im good to go.. to many people, this yields very poor sound quality results, but i dont really care, i just want something decent.. i usually end up buying records that i really like on cd anyways 
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Eetu Pellonpaa View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2005 at 07:27

I have done some CD-r's as for back-up or to the car by simply recording the LP's as wav-file, and then editing it with Cool Edit Pro. Some major cracks and pops can also be faded if you have time, at least from some parts of the LP.

I also did some experiments by altering the hertz values, but these adventures ruined the whole sound! Didn't notice it first from the lousy computer headphones, but listening them from a decent amplifirer revealed that the sound resonated in unbearable way.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2005 at 14:39
Yes, i keep on saying that converting analog vynils into numeric (it's the worst on a computer) completly ruins the sound! better buy cds.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2005 at 01:18

When I do LP conversion with the basic hertz configurations of Cool Edit Pro, the sound is OK, at least in my standards. When you think of the CD versions of the LP's from pre-digital era, what's the difference between those done home or in a factory? If there are some problems with result, I'm sure it's a question of machines or programs and the skill to use them.

But hey, this conversation is nice! These things have bothered me for a while, but I haven't managed to change opinnions about it before.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2005 at 02:50
"what's the difference between those done home or in a factory?" At home, moeover on a computer (which is the worst thing ever that has been created for sound, along with MP3 and others compressed sound formats), you ruin the sound, whereas in a factry, they use professional machines to duplicate CDs,Tapes or whatever. It has nothing to do.
"CD versions of the LP's from pre-digital era" they are not alll good, depending how carefully they done the conversion from numeric to analog, and anyway digital is crappy BUT it has many chances to be better than your homemade compression on a computer.

The best is to record your vynil on a good turntable to a good tape deck!



Btw, happy you enjoy this discussion
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Eetu Pellonpaa View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2005 at 04:44

Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

Btw, happy you enjoy this discussion

Sure!  I'm anything but pro in this subject, but it interests me. Different opinnions make the discusson, and my (too) big ego seldom get's harmed.  

I have Akai GX-95 tapedeck, but I use it nowadays only for recording the music of the garage psych band I have with my friends. We're having two gigs today, and I just packed it to the car. I don't have very much different uses for casettes, as there's not MC player in my car, nor do I have walkman.

I agree with your opinnion about mp3's, I don't use them exept of listening some music samples from the progarchives. But do you (or anybody else here) know, what kind of formats do the music industry use? How much more denser they are than wav? I can enjoy transcriptions I have done in a way desribed before, but I have also guite bad hearing, so I quess I don't get all the details of the sound. But I enjoy analog sound more than digital, that's for sure.

I'll have to leave before I get late from the sets!



Edited by Eetu Pellonpää
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oliverstoned View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2005 at 05:36
Originally posted by Eetu Pellonpää Eetu Pellonpää wrote:

Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

Btw, happy you enjoy this discussion


Sure! I'm anything but pro in this subject, but it interests me. Different opinnions make the discusson, and my (too) big ego seldom get's harmed.


I have Akai GX-95 tapedeck, but I use it nowadays only for recording the music of the garage psych band I have with my friends. We're having two gigs today, and I just packed it to the car. I don't have very much different uses for casettes, as there's not MC player in my car, nor do I have walkman.


I agree with your opinnion about mp3's, I don't use them exept of listening some music samples from the progarchives. But do you (or anybody else here) know, what kind of formats do the music industry use? How much more denser they are than wav? I can enjoy transcriptions I have done in a way desribed before, but I have also guite bad hearing, so I quess I don't get all the details of the sound. But I enjoy analog sound more than digital, that's for sure.


I'll have to leave before I get late from the sets!



Akai GX-95 is not too bad on a technical point, so you should use it instead of Mp3. That would be an interesting experiment for you. But it also depends on which turntable/cartridge you use.

I'm not sure understanding well your question about formats being used by audio industry.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2005 at 08:33
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

Akai GX-95 is not too bad on a technical point, so you should use it instead of Mp3. That would be an interesting experiment for you. But it also depends on which turntable/cartridge you use.

I have Technics SL-DL1 turntable. I used to do some taping during early 90's, as my parent's car had a casette recorder. From that machine it ofcourse impossible to hear any good sound. At home I listen from a casette only those LP's I have copied from local library (not too many of them). Mainly I listen only the vinyls themselves, and not any kind of copy from them.

I don't have any mp3 on my computer or CD for listening. I also use the vinyl transcriptions only in my car, or I make a backup copy for myself of the LP's I fear I might not be able to get anymore, should they be destroyed. I also did some "party CD's" to ruin parties where I was invited, but I'm not invited to them anymore.

Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

I'm not sure understanding well your question about formats being used by audio industry.

OK, it's a bit complex for me to bring my thoughts about this in english, but I'll try.

If one transfers an analog information to a digital information, then more denser the resolution of the binaries representing the soundwave should be, that closer of the original source should be the result, no? I would be interested in concrete details, how much better are the digital formats that music industry use, than the wave files used by common computer users, and in what way these sounds differ. How can the differences be heard? Me, with my bit deaf hearing, can probably be satisfied with much rougher sound than majority of the people.

I respect and like analog technology and products done with it much more than of digital techology. But we're living in digital world, and I'll try to seek ways of bringing some analog content I like to some of the digitalized enviroments I'll have to be in. The opinnions of imitating alive sound with a computer could be taken to a level, where one can state that technology of any kind cannot bring the hoped result: real analog sound. It's allways plain binaries. The whole lifetime of the universe isn't enough for any kind of computer of any technology, to calculate and represent the fysiological phenomenons in quantum scale, which make the sounds appear to our world.

Ouch, I think my braincapacity is running out...

But there's some nice aspects of digitalization, like this forum and this discussion we're having!

 

Ops, what a mess my post was!



Edited by Eetu Pellonpää
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oliverstoned View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2005 at 09:52
"But there's some nice aspects of digitalization, like this forum and this discussion we're having!"

Agree! but in the sound field, unfortunatly it's catastrophic compare to analog.

"I would be interested in concrete details, how much better are the digital formats that music industry use, than the wave files used by common computer users, and in what way these sounds differ. How can the differences be heard?"

I've not the technical/scientific knowledge to tell you in detail (that's very complex), but the simple thing is that MP3 and others are much more compressed than classic CD, which results in a great loss of data. This results in a very bad sound on all criterias. In the audio industry, they compress dynamic unfortunatly but when you buy an original CD, it has nothing to do with a mp3 or even a computer-burned cd, but that's another issue. But to hear this differences, you need to have a real good system.


"But we're living in digital world, and I'll try to seek ways of bringing some analog content I like to some of the digitalized enviroments I'll have to be in"

Yes, that's sad but fortunatly there's enough stock of analog vynils to enjoy analog sounds during a long time!

But we are in a digital world like you said, that's why i bought myself a great CD player (Sonic frontiers SFT-1 drive + Goldmund Mimesis 14 converter+ Nordost digital cable).


Sonic frontiers SFT-1 (on the upper)




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2005 at 11:22

Wow, that's a nice player! I'll manage atleast now with LG DVX8651, as I can play my CD's and DVD's with the same machine. It supports also mpg's and divx, and it was a real lowbudget thing, about 70€.

Thanks for nice brainstroming!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2005 at 14:58
Here's my power amp.
Highly recommended, the best price/value of the whole market


Jolida 302




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cobb View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2005 at 03:30
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

This is a great mistake to convert analog vynil sound into numeric.
The better is to record your vynil on a good cassette deck, like a Nakamichi 1000zxl(the best in the world)for example...
Moreover, all that passes through a computer is rotten!
Compare an original Cd to the duplicated one, burnt on a computer and you will understand, if you listen it on A REAL GOOD TRANSPARENT SYTEM.


This is a physical impossibility. CD duplication invloves transferring 0 and 1s from one cd to another. If it messes this up, the duplication is in error. Digital music is just a series of binary code that is translated into sound by the sound card. You can't get any loss of signal- the duplication is the same as the original
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2005 at 04:46

Quote  CD duplication invloves transferring 0 and 1s from one cd to another. If it messes this up, the duplication is in error. Digital music is just a series of binary code that is translated into sound by the sound card. You can't get any loss of signal- the duplication is the same as the original.

Do you know, does the quality of windows wav-files match with the digital files in factory produced CD's?  I mean, that there isn't anykind of compression in wavs?

In pratice: If i rip a CD, which I have bought from a store, to a wav file f.ex. with Easy CD Creator, and I choose highest quality values for it, is the transcription 1 to 1? 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2005 at 05:28
The only way to get an exact copy is to perform a CD copy. Why do you copy them as wav's to your hard drive when roxio will do a cd to cd copy?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2005 at 06:56
You can't get a perfect copy of an audio CD with most programs because they (edit: don't) allow for offsets. As far as I know there are only two ripping programs that do - Exact Audio Copy and Plextools, although I think there may be more.

Edited by goose
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2005 at 07:02
No you are talking about ripping....

Ripping involves running the original music through an algorithm and essentially re-recording it. This will only be as good as the hardware and software that you are using. Making a CD copy is just making a digital copy of the data on the ISO- it is exactly them same, a perfect clone.

If I'm wrong on this, I'm sure someone will tell me.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:09
It is a digital copy, but it misses about 200 samples from the beginning and end of the CD. When there are 44,100 samples a second that's not a very big deal, but it's still not perfect. Converting to .wav isn't rerecording the sound at all, it retains all the data and just represents it in a different way - it's just as perfect as a CD copy, assuming all the data has been ripped correctly in the first place.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:30

Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

Here's my power amp.
Highly recommended, the best price/value of the whole market


Jolida 302




tubes own!!!

someday I'm gonna build me a tubestate power amp...

http://www.myspace.com/altaic
ALTAIC

"Oceans Down You'll Lie"
coming soon
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oliverstoned View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:38
Originally posted by cobb cobb wrote:


Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

This is a great mistake to convert analog vynil sound into numeric.
The better is to record your vynil on a good cassette deck, like a Nakamichi 1000zxl(the best in the world)for example...
Moreover, all that passes through a computer is rotten!
<span style="font-weight: bold;">Compare an original Cd to the duplicated one, burnt on a computer and you will understand,</span> if you listen it on A REAL GOOD TRANSPARENT SYTEM.


This is a physical impossibility. CD duplication invloves transferring
0 and 1s from one cd to another. If it messes this up, the duplication
is in error. Digital music is just a series of binary code that is
translated into sound by the sound card. You can't get any loss of
signal- the duplication is the same as the original


This is much more complex. Anyway, we have already discuss this.
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