Fourth of July

This is for our troops spending the fourth of July in Iraq, Afghanistan and everywhere they proudly serve.

HOORAH!

Be careful and come home soon.

Happy Fourth Of July to all our American Friends!

WOW

THOSE GUYS MUST GET REAL TIRED HOLDING THAT FLAG UP ALL DAY, EVERYDAY!!

HAPPY FOURTH OF JULY TO ALL AMERICAN FORUM MEMBERS

I certainly understand and appreciate the intent of the Founding Fathers in creating a society in which the "will of the people" ruled through "democratic" process rather than a king or other despot ruling under the guise of "divine right."

However, at the risk of being something of a party pooper, I don't see much to celebrate since it took less than 230 years for the idea to fall apart, and for the U.S. to be going down the road toward a proto-totalitarian quasi-theocracy.  We are now ruled through "fear" (both subtly and overtly) rather than reason, and lies, half-truths and "spin" have replaced honest discourse and debate.

Yes, we may still be the "freest" country in the world (though those freedoms are very carefully controlled...).  However, that seems no longer a good enough reason for people to be excited about coming here: in a recent global poll, the people of only one country (India) voted the U.S. as the country they would most like to live in.  We ranked from 2nd to 15th among most of the other countries polled (including "First World," "Second World" and "Third World" countries).  And the number of Americans who are at least discussing the idea of leaving has grown exponentially - not simply due to 9/11, but also due to the socio-political climate that 9/11 catalyzed here: one characterized most frighteningly by a willingness of the populace to permit the erosion or curtailing of civil liberties and freedoms in the name of some illusory "security."

Apparently, the "love affair" with America and its "streets paved with gold" is now finally seen by non-Americans as the myth it always was, and Americans are now finally admitting that the so-called "American Dream" is hopelessly difficult, if not impossible, to attain.

So much for the "Great Experiment."  Nice try, George, Thom, James, et al.

Peace.

gleam wrote: Maani, Do me a favor and climb down off of your cross. The fact that you can sit here on this day and criticize your country is proof enough of it's freedoms. Personally, I feel like exercising my freedom to kick your ass, however I don't hit women. If the U.S. is so terrible, tell me why thousands of Cubans and Haitians risk shark infested waters to get here? Why are there eight million illegal Mexicans living here? Party pooper, your being much to easy on yourself. Bible thumping, limp wristed hipocrite is more appropriate. Have a happy fourth of July, scumbag.

Gleam,I dont mind who I hit,if I am punishing bullies.

Thousands of Cubans risk their lives to be in the USA because they do not know any better!

You are typical of the red-neck,chauvinistic characture that is so often our image of American males.

Maani is merely pointing out the obvious:

Some people are more free than others...............lift your head above the sand bags and look around you.

Assholes like you really make me want to crack heads...US military trained or otherwise!

Peace. Off. !

gleam wrote: Maani, Do me a favor and climb down off of your cross. The fact that you can sit here on this day and criticize your country is proof enough of it's freedoms. Personally, I feel like exercising my freedom to kick your ass, however I don't hit women. If the U.S. is so terrible, tell me why thousands of Cubans and Haitians risk shark infested waters to get here? Why are there eight million illegal Mexicans living here? Party pooper, your being much to easy on yourself. Bible thumping, limp wristed hipocrite is more appropriate. Have a happy fourth of July, scumbag.

Gleam, we had just buried the hatchet yesterday, and I don't want to dig it up... But I really think that the fact that you overreact in such a way to Maani's post is the real proof that your country is not as free as you think it is. Or maybe it's because of people like you that it's not as free as it should be... perhaps you need more people like Maani there... (and I'm not talking about his job )

Peace (I mean it!!!)

gleam wrote: Maani, Do me a favor and climb down off of your cross. The fact that you can sit here on this day and criticize your country is proof enough of it's freedoms. Personally, I feel like exercising my freedom to kick your ass, however I don't hit women. If the U.S. is so terrible, tell me why thousands of Cubans and Haitians risk shark infested waters to get here? Why are there eight million illegal Mexicans living here? Party pooper, your being much to easy on yourself. Bible thumping, limp wristed hipocrite is more appropriate. Have a happy fourth of July, scumbag.

A bit harsh, but I couldn't help feel annoyance at Maani taking an opportunity to jump on his soapbox and spew out his silliness. Very typical of him actually.

Perhaps someone should light a firecracker and shove it up his hippi ass.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: I'm a fanatic South Park fan ... Do you know the episode "I'm a little bit country"?

not by name...why don't you tell us what happened?

gleam:

As Tony points out, I was, indeed, speaking comparatively: of course we have more (controlled) freedoms than many countries.  That was not my point.

I also find it nearly hysterical that you refer to me as "Bible-thumping," since I make it clear that I am not happy with the fact that the so-called "Christian Right" is helping to turn this country into a quasi-theocracy.  Indeed, it seems to me that if I were "Bible-thumping," I would be supportive of the role that "religion" (and the "lobbying" of the Christian Right) is playing in politics.  Clearly, I am not.

And of course I realize my very ability to criticize my government is a freedom that many others do not have - and that can, in fact, lead to arrest, torture, imprisonment and/or death elsewhere.  But trust me, friend - while we may never get to the torture or death parts, we are coming perilously close to seeing arrests and imprisonment for dissension right here in the good 'ole U.S. of A.  (Some would argue that it is already happening.)

Indeed, one could view the arrest and almost certain imprisonment of reporters Judy Miller and Scott Cooper as one of the first steps down this road.  In that case, it is freedom of the press that is being trampled on.  However, as noted elsewhere, when you have government officials stating that "people need to watch what they say," and calling dissension "unpatriotic," the time will not be long before you will begin seeing arrests for expressing our right to constitutionally protected free speech.  And don't be fooled: the "reasons" for those arrests will be stated otherwise - couched in terms of "national security" or other nebulous, bogus or trumped-up reasons.  But they will, in fact, be solely because people dare to speak out against Bush and his war-profiteering cronies, or the "establishment" in general.

Again, I agree that "freedom' is relative.  But wake up and smell the coffee: our freedoms and civil liberties are being eroded at an accelerated pace.  So you have two choices.  You can show willful ignorance and naivete in believing that it's not happening.  Or you can speak up and make sure that the freedoms that all those brave and good Americans died for in the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, WWI and WWII remain intact.  I need not point out that the second choice is the more "patriotic" of the two.

Peace.