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Praised prog albums that you think are overrated

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richardh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2024 at 19:31
^ personally I think a lot of classic 70's prog is overrated. Too many bands just trotted the same thing out because they were seemingly too big to fail ... until they did! I do think this kind of topic is valid for that reason. My favourite band ELP get a lot of flack (probably deservedly) but I don't see why other bands and artists from this era should be immune from criticism. More recent prog is a difficult subject as it takes longer to settle so I could say Opeth's latest is overrated (it most likely is) but we will see a general balancing out over time I suspect as usually happens.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2024 at 19:55
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

^well you've made it clear you don't like a lot of modern prog but have you heard his classical albums like A Midsummers Night Dream or the one with his brother John called Sketches Of Satie? I just want to get a clear idea that you have given all his music a chance? I also like his collaborations with the Hungarian jazz rock band Djabe. There is some very nice stuff there as well. IMO

Hi,

Last I looked I had 9 solo albums by SH. I don't dislike the guy, and didn't say I did ... he's very good ... however ... it's more of an issue of so many things out there, than it is my not wanting to hear SH again ... I simply can't afford all the things I want in my collection, and some more SH would be some of it ... specially the classical minded stuff.

(I still feel "guilty" listening to something new on the toog, or elsewhere and not getting the album/CD without having heard it ... and many folks I went for their name ... witness Van der Graaf and Peter Hammill ... ... and I have the CD's!)

I have no issues with the "modern prog" as you suggest ... except when it is on the top ten listed and is a cookie cutting factory! SH, at least, is nowhere near that idea, so you know all is good. But, again, my being able to get all the stuff I want ... could make me more selective, which has been an issue with me for 50 years ... let's see ... new Klaus Schulze, or new Tangerine Dream ... hmmmmm .... ohhh ... new Amon Duul 2 ... and this may sound like I don't care for "modern" stuff, which is not true at all ... for at least 20 years, in the 70's and 80's I was up on many things ... and while I enjoyed SH, there were many things in EUROPE that were a must in my collection ... and I have stuck by them ever since, as you well know ... and saying something about SH, that some of you may not like, is not meant the way you feel about it ... c'mon, I would consider myself one of the original "progressive'rs" long before this site came around ... but sadly, the appreciation of the history and knowledge of more things, is not appreciated ... it tickles the fan'ship of ... "prog rockers". AND WE PLAYED THE MATERIAL IMMEDIATELY ... not waited for folks to say it was a good album! Guy played TLLDOB in its entirety when he went on the air at midnight, and then did it again at 3AM because of the requests ... and SH was played immediately upon arrival.

Appreciation for any work is not an issue for me ... well except punk maybe, because I have to have something to make fun with/of.

As I wrote earlier, I don't think of any album, really, as overrated or underrated. The only things that over/under for me, is the commentary from a lot of folks ... which I find sad given the history of it all, and what brought this site alive for .... for me a sort of "favorite" means that there is not enough appreciation for "music" per se, in its many ways from all over the world ... and to me that's sad ... the greatest of human expressions is "selective" and the rest is not good enough, or is consider trash ... oh well, we do the same thing with God ... so nothing is new!


Edited by moshkito - December 08 2024 at 20:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 34 minutes ago at 22:13
....this entire thread is overrated!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 10 minutes ago at 22:37
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

I have no issues with the "modern prog" as you suggest ... except when it is on the top ten listed and is a cookie cutting factory! SH, at least, is nowhere near that idea, so you know all is good. But, again, my being able to get all the stuff I want ... could make me more selective, which has been an issue with me for 50 years... let's see ... new Klaus Schulze, or new Tangerine Dream ... hmmmmm .... ohhh ... new Amon Duul 2 ... and this may sound like I don't care for "modern" stuff, which is not true at all ...
So you keep claiming, but yes I'm afraid to me, it does sound like you don't genuinely care. I've hardly noticed you mention any "new artist" from say the last couple of decades - other than that blind lady who plays ELP covers. How about letting us know some out of all the "modern" stuff outside the top ten listed (which of course is all everyone else here can be bothered with) that you care for?     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3 hours 3 minutes ago at 01:44
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

...
So you keep claiming, but yes I'm afraid to me, it does sound like you don't genuinely care. I've hardly noticed you mention any "new artist" from say the last couple of decades - other than that blind lady who plays ELP covers. How about letting us know some out of all the "modern" stuff outside the top ten listed (which of course is all everyone else here can be bothered with) that you care for?     

Hi,

Unlike many folks here, I do not look at one song, or band, as "today", or "yesterday" ... I look at it all as MUSIC ... and it can go back to Vivaldi, or Bach and has nothing to do with today or yesterday.

To me, an artist is an artist, not a commodity ... and its age is not an issue ... thus something new is not always the best thing in the sliced bread stakes or ideas. 

As I have mentioned before, and I do have a handful of favorites, I tend to not work on "lists" or "preferences" much, because, for me it dehumanizes the music into a product, and this is one part of the human spirit that is NOT a PRODUCT in my book ... it is a life and a living ... that's more important than my own thoughts of "new artist" ... besides which ... you likely won't agree with it, anyway! What's the point, then? 

The only thing that is "overrated" and "underrated" is the bunch of comments by many on this thread ... sometimes, it is really sad, as it is not about the music itself, in my way of seeing all these comments.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2 hours 55 minutes ago at 01:52
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Unlike many folks here, I do not look at one song, or band, as "today", or "yesterday" ... I look at it all as MUSIC ... and it can go back to Vivaldi, or Bach and has nothing to do with today or yesterday.

To me, an artist is an artist, not a commodity ... and its age is not an issue ... thus something new is not always the best thing in the sliced bread stakes or ideas. 

As I have mentioned before, and I do have a handful of favorites, I tend to not work on "lists" or "preferences" much, because, for me it dehumanizes the music into a product, and this is one part of the human spirit that is NOT a PRODUCT in my book ... it is a life and a living ... that's more important than my own thoughts of "new artist" ... besides which ... you likely won't agree with it, anyway! What's the point, then? 

The only thing that is "overrated" and "underrated" is the bunch of comments by many on this thread ... sometimes, it is really sad, as it is not about the music itself, in my way of seeing all these comments.

Exaggerating much?!  Again... 
We are all wrong and you are always right. rather arrogant, don't you think?!
This is a discussion forum, people discuss songs, albums, artists and bands, genres and subgenres and so on, nobody is dehumanizing artists & music... wtf?! Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2 hours 42 minutes ago at 02:05
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

...
Exaggerating much?!  Again... 
We are all wrong and you are always right. rather arrogant, don't you think?!
This is a discussion forum, people discuss songs, albums, artists and bands, genres and subgenres and so on, nobody is dehumanizing artists & music... wtf?! Confused

Hi,

And SAD ... that you immediately think that I do not fit in the "discussion", and you want to keep it to like minded folks with the same thoughts.

So a discussion you want ... on your terms, and different thoughts don't fit.

Exaggerating ... wow ... what an idea ... !!!

And it does, in a way, dehumanize the artists ... if you were one of them, you would not want to be thought of, or considered, either of those designations, and you did not create the music for that reason, or anyone's thoughts or ideas ... it's just a strange idea that fans have more rights than the creator of the art did, and their fun idea is more important than the music ... let's go ahead and talk about dehumanization of it ... but since you are not the artist, you don't care and think your own feelings are more important!


Edited by moshkito - 2 hours 38 minutes ago at 02:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2 hours 36 minutes ago at 02:11
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

...
Exaggerating much?!  Again... 
We are all wrong and you are always right. rather arrogant, don't you think?!
This is a discussion forum, people discuss songs, albums, artists and bands, genres and subgenres and so on, nobody is dehumanizing artists & music... wtf?! Confused

Hi,

And SAD ... that you immediately think that I do not fit in the "discussion", and you want to keep it to like minded folks with the same thoughts.

So a discussion you want ... on your terms, and different thoughts don't fit.

Exaggerating ... wow ... what an idea ... !!!
I did not say you do not fit in the discussion, how did you get that from what i said, i don't know.
But to say that we, users dehumanize music and artists in our discussion is an exaggeration. 

There has always been a diversity of opinions here on PA, people don't agree on everything and this is great. 

How have i implied that I want people to think alike?! Confused Don't put words in my mouth... 


Edited by Cristi - 2 hours 22 minutes ago at 02:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2 hours 27 minutes ago at 02:20
^^Just as I thought. You pretend to care about "modern stuff" but you don't. You're always on repeat.

I go back hundreds of years myself and discover something new. All the time. Everyone does. Not just you. I have a bigger collection of Baroque music than I have "Prog Rock". Who cares. You made a list of Bach and Vivaldi. That was obviously ok, so what's the difference?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2 hours 12 minutes ago at 02:35
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

^^Just as I thought. You pretend to care about "modern stuff" but you don't. You're always on repeat.
...

Hi,

How logical all this is ... but you can think what you want since it is the rule, and the law ... and outsiders be damned!

Look who is saying "repeat" faster than I ever did!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kirk782 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1 hour 31 minutes ago at 03:16
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

My favourite band ELP get a lot of flack (probably deservedly)


ELP had some good albums, especially their debut or Tarkus. Something like Love Beach may not have aged well, but many band's of that era have had some disappointing runs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1 hour 28 minutes ago at 03:19
Originally posted by kirk782 kirk782 wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

My favourite band ELP get a lot of flack (probably deservedly)


ELP had some good albums, especially their debut or Tarkus. Something like Love Beach may not have aged well, but many band's of that era have had some disappointing runs.

You are explaining what ELP is to an ELP connoisseur. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kirk782 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1 hour 27 minutes ago at 03:20
Originally posted by ThyroidGlands ThyroidGlands wrote:

Well, that's everything. The idea for this post came to me from this thread: https://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=132123

I'll start with Moonmadness and Mirage, albums currently ranked at #15 and #16.


I liked both of those albums when I listened but didn't found them to be that great. But then, every person can have their tastes. I prefer the hardening edge in sound that bands like Atomic Rooster or VdGG bought more sometimes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kirk782 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1 hour 16 minutes ago at 03:31
I will list two albums from the krautrock sub - genre.

Hosianna Mantra - Popol Vuh  Despite being rated quite high, I found it almost boring on first listen. Not that it's bad,but it's more suited for meditative listening,IMO. I was expecting more from it.

Tago Mago - Can This is often considered Can's masterpiece but I personally felt that the vocals degraded the inherent nature of the songs. The lyrics aren't anything great and the singer is nonplussed about it. I liked the sound of their debut album 'Monster Movie' more.

If I had to name one album from the top 10 of the studio albums listed on the site, I would choose Tull's Thick as a Brick. After listening to the masterpiece Aqualung, I was expecting an album as good but I was disappointed. Yes, the album is ambitious in scope and I can understand why it has it's fans but it wasn't for me. Maybe I would need multiple listens to appreciate it furthur.

There are other bands like Opeth or Dream Theater listed as well whose works I haven't listened to and I know I won't like because metal as a genre doesn't gel well with me.So, if I list their albums, it would be cheating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kirk782 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1 hour 10 minutes ago at 03:37
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Pawn Hearts is a grower. It's what i call mature difficult listening music for seasoned proggers. It took me years before it clicked and now it's probably a top 10 of all time of any album. At least top 20


Same here. I first liked VdGG first two albums more; H to He and Least we can do is Wave [Aerosol grey machine doesn't count as a VdGG album]. The scope of Pawn Hearts is so much bigger but the album rocks as hard as it can. It also has some of Hamill's finest lyrics both introspective and sometimes dark.

I personally think the band peaked with this album. Still Life and World Record , I couldn't come to love.
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