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Praised prog albums that you think are overrated |
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moshkito 
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18359 |
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 Posted: December 11 2024 at 02:05 |
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Hi, And SAD ... that you immediately think that I do not fit in the "discussion", and you want to keep it to like minded folks with the same thoughts. So a discussion you want ... on your terms, and different thoughts don't fit. Exaggerating ... wow ... what an idea ... !!! And it does, in a way, dehumanize the artists ... if you were one of them, you would not want to be thought of, or considered, either of those designations, and you did not create the music for that reason, or anyone's thoughts or ideas ... it's just a strange idea that fans have more rights than the creator of the art did, and their fun idea is more important than the music ... let's go ahead and talk about dehumanization of it ... but since you are not the artist, you don't care and think your own feelings are more important!
Edited by moshkito - December 11 2024 at 02:09 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Cristi
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Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 46312 |
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Posted: December 11 2024 at 01:52 |
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Exaggerating much?! Again... We are all wrong and you are always right. rather arrogant, don't you think?! This is a discussion forum, people discuss songs, albums, artists and bands, genres and subgenres and so on, nobody is dehumanizing artists & music... wtf?!
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18359 |
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Posted: December 11 2024 at 01:44 |
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Hi, Unlike many folks here, I do not look at one song, or band, as "today", or "yesterday" ... I look at it all as MUSIC ... and it can go back to Vivaldi, or Bach and has nothing to do with today or yesterday. To me, an artist is an artist, not a commodity ... and its age is not an issue ... thus something new is not always the best thing in the sliced bread stakes or ideas. As I have mentioned before, and I do have a handful of favorites, I tend to not work on "lists" or "preferences" much, because, for me it dehumanizes the music into a product, and this is one part of the human spirit that is NOT a PRODUCT in my book ... it is a life and a living ... that's more important than my own thoughts of "new artist" ... besides which ... you likely won't agree with it, anyway! What's the point, then? The only thing that is "overrated" and "underrated" is the bunch of comments by many on this thread ... sometimes, it is really sad, as it is not about the music itself, in my way of seeing all these comments. |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Saperlipopette!
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Joined: December 20 2010 Location: Tomorrowland Status: Offline Points: 12727 |
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Posted: December 10 2024 at 22:37 |
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cstack3
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Posted: December 10 2024 at 22:13 |
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....this entire thread is overrated!
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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18359 |
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Posted: December 08 2024 at 19:55 |
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Hi, Last I looked I had 9 solo albums by SH. I don't dislike the guy, and didn't say I did ... he's very good ... however ... it's more of an issue of so many things out there, than it is my not wanting to hear SH again ... I simply can't afford all the things I want in my collection, and some more SH would be some of it ... specially the classical minded stuff. (I still feel "guilty" listening to something new on the toog, or elsewhere and not getting the album/CD without having heard it ... and many folks I went for their name ... witness Van der Graaf and Peter Hammill ... ... and I have the CD's!) I have no issues with the "modern prog" as you suggest ... except when it is on the top ten listed and is a cookie cutting factory! SH, at least, is nowhere near that idea, so you know all is good. But, again, my being able to get all the stuff I want ... could make me more selective, which has been an issue with me for 50 years ... let's see ... new Klaus Schulze, or new Tangerine Dream ... hmmmmm .... ohhh ... new Amon Duul 2 ... and this may sound like I don't care for "modern" stuff, which is not true at all ... for at least 20 years, in the 70's and 80's I was up on many things ... and while I enjoyed SH, there were many things in EUROPE that were a must in my collection ... and I have stuck by them ever since, as you well know ... and saying something about SH, that some of you may not like, is not meant the way you feel about it ... c'mon, I would consider myself one of the original "progressive'rs" long before this site came around ... but sadly, the appreciation of the history and knowledge of more things, is not appreciated ... it tickles the fan'ship of ... "prog rockers". AND WE PLAYED THE MATERIAL IMMEDIATELY ... not waited for folks to say it was a good album! Guy played TLLDOB in its entirety when he went on the air at midnight, and then did it again at 3AM because of the requests ... and SH was played immediately upon arrival. Appreciation for any work is not an issue for me ... well except punk maybe, because I have to have something to make fun with/of. As I wrote earlier, I don't think of any album, really, as overrated or underrated. The only things that over/under for me, is the commentary from a lot of folks ... which I find sad given the history of it all, and what brought this site alive for .... for me a sort of "favorite" means that there is not enough appreciation for "music" per se, in its many ways from all over the world ... and to me that's sad ... the greatest of human expressions is "selective" and the rest is not good enough, or is consider trash ... oh well, we do the same thing with God ... so nothing is new!
Edited by moshkito - December 08 2024 at 20:02 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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richardh
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Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 29982 |
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Posted: December 08 2024 at 19:31 |
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^ personally I think a lot of classic 70's prog is overrated. Too many bands just trotted the same thing out because they were seemingly too big to fail ... until they did! I do think this kind of topic is valid for that reason. My favourite band ELP get a lot of flack (probably deservedly) but I don't see why other bands and artists from this era should be immune from criticism. More recent prog is a difficult subject as it takes longer to settle so I could say Opeth's latest is overrated (it most likely is) but we will see a general balancing out over time I suspect as usually happens.
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Formentera Lady
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Posted: December 08 2024 at 19:06 |
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Finally someone said it  I think, those 'overrated' topics (and there were quite a few in the past) are simply there to bash albums or songs that other people like.
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richardh
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Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 29982 |
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Posted: December 08 2024 at 18:28 |
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^well you've made it clear you don't like a lot of modern prog but have you heard his classical albums like A Midsummers Night Dream or the one with his brother John called Sketches Of Satie? I just want to get a clear idea that you have given all his music a chance? I also like his collaborations with the Hungarian jazz rock band Djabe. There is some very nice stuff there as well. IMO
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18359 |
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Posted: December 08 2024 at 07:37 |
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Hi, My thoughts are, still, that SH wanted to do something that was not a bunch of pop songs, and stringing along a nice "concept" album, was a viable and good idea at the time. What was strange, was that he did a concept piece, and the rest of the stuff by Genesis, was much more song oriented ... though some of us might not think that TLLDOB is a good example ... but it is a whole bunch of songs kinda put together to create a story. My thoughts are that the band had too much material at that time, by various members, and that TLLDOB was the result of it. While I appreciate a lot of SH, I think of him as just another rock'n'roller, and no album of his that I have heard ... has any kind of a feel, or idea, or design, that TVOTA did ... which to me, means that it came from someone else's idea and thoughts, not SH ... otherwise we would have heard more of it in different materials. TVOTA is not "over-rated" ... but the majority of SH is!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Lewian
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Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 15351 |
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Posted: December 08 2024 at 07:14 |
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That was me. Now I've got to say that I only heard it after having listened to his next three solo albums a lot, and given those maybe it came over as less surprising as it otherwise would've been. Still I see it as closer connected to the Genesis material with him still in the band than the others. I'm not saying it's a Genesis clone.
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Saperlipopette!
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Joined: December 20 2010 Location: Tomorrowland Status: Offline Points: 12727 |
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Posted: December 08 2024 at 01:50 |
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-I'll take Hackett's Hermit over Randy Crawford "Hoping Love Will Last" any day of the week. She has the better and stronger voice of course, but so has Mariah Carey and Celine Dion. I still wouldn't want to hear any of them in a Prog Rock context. |
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ProcolWho?
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Joined: May 06 2007 Location: New york Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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Posted: December 07 2024 at 18:45 |
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I think its forbidden to agree more than 1000 % But I agree 10,000 % Even when I don't know its them , they offend my ear
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moshkito
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Posted: December 06 2024 at 06:49 |
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Hi, To me, this is the issue, in general, that the listener (or in this case the fan) can not add any comments that go beyond the preference side of things ... no reason why they like it ... it's just their favorite band, or a part of their top five kind of thing. This is the scary part of it all, since, IN MY BOOK, someone that can not explain themselves on their liking something, is, more than likely, just a song listener, and not someone that appreciates the music for what it is ... any other band doing just as much, either better or worse, won't even get a listen! It's the same thing elsewhere, when some suggestions are made, and you and I figure everyone has the quality of ears/listening to check things out ... but NO ... the comment is ignored ... and this was highly visible on a thread a few days ago, when someone said this song was dramatic, and the one in that album that went way beyond that song, was ignored ... and he didn't even reply, and you just about know that he only heard one song, not the album ... not that this would be the case, but the hectic and explosive nature of the next song in that album, is enough for half the "progressive" folks to turn off and go find a guitar solo somewhere else in "progrock". It's a damn shame that the music itself is not more important than anyone's comments. I do not think that I am above the music, at all, and the same goes for film ... and my posts are about all the material out there that has more ... a lot more ... than the majority of the top 5's or 10's listed anywhere these days! And now you know why I do not do lists ... I don't want to be having arguments with folks that do not listen to the ALBUM ... instead of just SONG.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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richardh
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Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 29982 |
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Posted: December 03 2024 at 22:31 |
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I like the idea that The Shadow Of The Heirophant could somehow be playing it safe to Genesis fans. Really?
Tony Banks didn't want that material on a Genesis album so Steve had to develop it elsehwere inevitably leading to his eventual exit from the band That's my take on it. Accept for The Hermit (which is dreadful as someone mentioned) it would be a masterpiece and a top ten prog album for me. I do love a lot of Steve Hackett solo albums and only avoid some of those 80's albums when many musicians had a bout of temporary insanity but I think his debut remains his best to this day. IMO
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Steve Wyzard
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Posted: December 03 2024 at 09:55 |
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Voyage of the Acolyte was the first Steve Hackett album I ever owned. I liked it at first, but over time it fell out of favor with me. With the exceptions of the opening "Ace of Wands" and the miraculous "Star of Sirius", the album is far too repetitive, labored, and (shall we say) ponderous. Of all of Hackett's albums (and I own quite a few), this one has the absolute worst engineering/production. And then there's "The Hermit", which is just plain awful! All of this can of course be attributed to this being Steve's first solo album, and let me be clear: I certainly don't hate it. But I would far rather listen to a heavily-criticized album like Cured (which is livelier, better produced, and Hackett's vocals have greatly improved) than Voyage of the Acolyte. To close, I will concede that I have heard live versions of some of the Acolyte songs that have greatly improved them, and that my very favorite Hackett album is Acolyte's follow-up, Please Don't Touch.
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Cristi
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Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 46312 |
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Posted: December 03 2024 at 09:34 |
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Thanks for explaining, you did not even have to do that, you were not the one making the claim that the album is overrated.
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Lewian
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Posted: December 03 2024 at 09:29 |
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For me personally one aspect is purely subjective, which melodies work for me and which don't, and I find material on the next three albums and To Watch the Storms just more memorable. But also on Acolyte in my view Steve takes less of a risk than on some later albums. Acolyte caters very well for the prog/Genesis fans (maybe somewhat more on the soft melodic side), but it doesn't really surprise as much as some tracks on later albums do.
Edited by Lewian - December 03 2024 at 09:30 |
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Cristi
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Posted: December 03 2024 at 09:23 |
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I'm not complaining, I'm just surprised at some of the choices here in this thread. If I'm asking why, it does not mean i complain. Just trying to understand.
Edited by Cristi - December 03 2024 at 09:23 |
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Lewian
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Posted: December 03 2024 at 09:20 |
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No, for sure not, and I'm not a fan of the "overrated" concept anyway. However I'm fine discussing why some albums that are generally appreciated don't resonate with some people, and that's the more constructive thing that can be done in this thread. And this doesn't require a complaint any time somebody says an album is overrated that you think deserves appreciation.
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Cristi wrote:
