QM: Does Time exist? |
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Author | ||
octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13979 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: Yesterday at 08:01 |
|
As promised, I'm starting a thread about theoretical physics. It doesn't mean to be technical. Theoretical physics is often source of phylosophical reasonings and the real existence of time can possibly raise an interesting discussion: Let's start from a book: "THE END OF TIME" by Julian Barbour. Imagine a whole Universe consisting of only three points and a single particle. The possible configurations of this universe are only three: particle in point A, particle in point B and particle in point C. Lets take a photo of this Universe in all its possible states and make several copies,then call each photo "a slice of space". Use the slices as a deck of playing cards, then watch them in rapid sequence. We will have the impression of a particle moving randomicly from one point to another. Now do the same with our Universe consisting of billions of light years in diameter and approx 10^80 protons. The sequence of these enormous slices of spaces is what we call "time". The conclusion is that Everything may exist simultaneously. The illusion of Time depends only on the position of the slices. This could potentially explain the two slit experiment and some of the weird paradoces of the quantum mechanics. A colleague of Julian Barbour, Lee Smolin, has then published a book entitled "TIME REBORN", in which he presents the opposite vision: Time is substantial, absolutely real. Both the books are clear and enjoyable and despite the opposite opinions, the two scientists who are also colleagues in the same University, mention each other in a very respectfully way. Now: which vision of TIME do you prefer is the right one, and why? Edited by octopus-4 - Yesterday at 09:47 |
||
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
|
||
octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13979 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Please forgive the syntax error in the thread title: EXIST not EXISTS...sorry
|
||
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
|
||
Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 43301 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
|
You can easily edit that.
|
||
octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13979 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Can't find a way...how?
|
||
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
|
||
Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 43301 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
The "edit post" in the "post options".
|
||
octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13979 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Nice. I did't think the subject could be updated. Now I'll search the Quintorigo suggestion that I've made in 2010 on which I misspelled the band's name
|
||
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
|
||
octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13979 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Of course the thread was closed 14 years ago, too late for a correction
|
||
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
|
||
Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65173 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I will have to cogitate on the things you outlined.
That aside, I tend to think it may not be possible to move at will between or with the slices of space/time, and so our notion of time travel is not feasible, at least using the example of a deck of cards being fanned, riffled, spread, or shuffled. Edited by Atavachron - 22 hours 52 minutes ago at 16:05 |
||
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
|
||
Lewian
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14664 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
People seem to think that it's crystal clear what it means to "exist". I don't think that at all. Also, I wonder whether "simultaneous" itself is a notion that relies on a concept of time?
|
||
Starshiper
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 08 2024 Location: Englantic Status: Offline Points: 323 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
It's a very philosophical and scientific question that has been argued for centuries. Presentism argues that only the present is real, while the past and future have little reality. On this view, time really consists in our experience of duration, not as a measurable construct. On the other hand, eternalism maintains that all past, present, and future events are all equally real, much like all the points on a line are equally real points. Personally, I believe it is always only 'now'.
|
||
Valdez
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 17 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 598 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
The measurement of time surely exists. And if the sun rises and sets on a schedule (as it does) then it could be said to be keeping time. Although, if life as we know it did not exist, then the sun (and everything else) would be un-observable and would not exist. Time exists in our minds given our capacity to comprehend our surroundings. Instinct, via seasons, is a timekeeper for many animals including man. Instinct can be said to be a clock of sorts that depends on a forward moving time, which is the future. Memory depends on times past. All crucial for survival in many ways. When we die, we have 'Run out of time' as we know and observe it.
The ability to even imagine a point A or a point B requires time to do it in, as would any question that time could answer. I'm thinking that if Time didn't exist then nothing else would. If consciousness (as we reckon it) didn't exist, then time wouldn't either. Even if one could travel to the earths past, by rights, everything in the past should repeat exactly as it was. which means that you could not be there. The future is a roll of the dice that has not yet happened, and that would prohibit a visit. Theories about multiple 'Timelines' also prove that time exists in theory. lol
Edited by Valdez - 20 hours 41 minutes ago at 18:16 |
||
https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024
|
||
yam yam
Collaborator Crossover Team Joined: June 16 2011 Location: Kerberos Status: Offline Points: 6306 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Time must exist, otherwise how would geologists have been able to dig up the fossilised remains of all these creatures that existed on Earth countless millions of years ago? The Earth is estimated to be about four and a half billion years old, yet to the average human being 100 years probably seems like an eternity - even though in reality it's just a tiny drop in the ocean - and to a mayfly, a single day probably seems like one too. I would imagine that all creatures are 'programmed' to perceive time differently, depending on how long their average lifespan is, but what 'force' is actually behind all this, I have absolutely no idea.
|
||
Valdez
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 17 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 598 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Assuming Time is real (I think it is) Then the force just may be water, excited by energy produced by radiation and magnetism... Magnetosphere protects earth from the void and too much radiation, The right amount of Radiation that is magically allowed through powers (Charges) the Sea and salts like a battery from which all life emanates. The Core of the earth is like a dynamo. The Universe is electric. I'm wildly speculating. I wrote it all down in great detail once when I was high on pot about 40 years ago |
||
https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024
|
||
Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65173 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
^ Electricity is one of the most underappreciated energies, and may be responsible for much more than we think.
|
||
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
|
||
yam yam
Collaborator Crossover Team Joined: June 16 2011 Location: Kerberos Status: Offline Points: 6306 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
|
||
Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65173 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Time perception as it's related to time itself does seem based on what one is doing or thinking, which is itself indicative of how time functions. |
||
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
|
||
Starshiper
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 08 2024 Location: Englantic Status: Offline Points: 323 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
|
||
Valdez
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 17 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 598 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Yes… water as well. All life is born of it. Our atmosphere is water, we die without water, and we are basically water. It took billions of years for water to self actualize. Water is smart.! Water is the closest thing to a God we have that we can actually touch. (Takes long hit off bong… cough cough) Edited by Valdez - 19 hours 33 minutes ago at 19:24 |
||
https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024
|
||
Valdez
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 17 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 598 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I agree. The notion of simultaneousness would rely and depend on measurable time. Existence itself is a given even if we don’t fully understand the how and why. |
||
https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024
|
||
Valdez
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 17 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 598 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I’m not really smoking weed at my age. Just kidding. funny because I’m re-watching fringe right now and timelines are all messed up.
Edited by Valdez - 18 hours 49 minutes ago at 20:08 |
||
https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024
|
||
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |