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PA Album of the Year Discussion thread |
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omphaloskepsis 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 6341 |
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 Posted: December 08 2023 at 12:23 |
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Thank you Logan. It works. I can actually start a thread.  I'm not a doctor. But, I worked as a biologist in an epidemology lab for seven years. I didn't know that PA sported doctor and RN moderators. That said, this isn't the place/time/thread to belabor such issues. Logan solved my issue. Back to the MUSIC Edited by omphaloskepsis - December 08 2023 at 16:20 |
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group 
Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 35804 |
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Posted: December 08 2023 at 10:08 |
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^ It made sense to do something like that, Richard. The thing is, of course, while lost of people complain that people are too generous with 5 and 4 stars, alot of people only like to rate that which they really like. And I would be way, way more likely to review and album that is five stars for me (essential to my collection/ listening) than one that is just good for me.
-------------------------------------- ^^^ Cindy was taken off the naughty list quite some time ago. Let's not get into it here, or again, but that COVID talk was considered potentially harmful. I just got over COVID and we should still be cautious. One of the mods here was a medical Doctor well versed in this and another an RN. As for me, I'm more of a general layabout which makes me an expert on all things (j/k). As for Will's issue with having posts deleted, I don't know about that, but sometimes when things got heated, then many posts would be hidden regardless of whether one was in the wrong or not. That said, of course interpretations of intent can happen. Like some recent posts of mine that got complaints, I thought I did nothing wrong, was intended as friendly humour/ banter, but it was taken in a way that I did not intend. It happens. I was told by on of the most articulate writers at the forum that he could barely understand a word I say... Cindy's was a technical issue to reinstate privileges, which is why I could not update the setting (I was not the one to take action before as I was on hiatus). It seems to have taken now, maybe due to a forum update. So please try it out. ------------------------- I got so much listening to do; it's like this every year. |
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richardh
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28029 |
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Posted: December 08 2023 at 00:15 |
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Although no one seems to remember but me it was actually my suggestion for the ratings that were adopted at the time (probably around 2005). Before then it was just blank. What you are suggesting is not really that different. I think at the time we were trying to give pause to those that wanted to give 5 stars to everything. 4 star ratings are always a strong recommendation for me and 5 stars should be a rarity not the norm. IMO
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Tales from the sky
Forum Newbie 
Joined: October 18 2023 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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Posted: December 07 2023 at 20:39 |
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Hello friends our group is waiting to be on the site it is only missing a yes on the Suggest New Bands and Artists forum in the name of: Tales from the sky and we can have our chance to make ourselves known on your site you You can listen to our album Tales from the sky - In the world of Krimus available on Youtube, Spotify, Deezer etc and on bandcamp. Enjoy listening and thank you in advance to whoever will help us to be on the site! https://talesfromthesky.bandcamp.com/album/in-the-world-of-krimus
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Grumpyprogfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 09 2019 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 11603 |
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Posted: December 07 2023 at 16:45 |
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^I'm on PA'S naughty list also. Many of my posts have been deleted, when I did nothing wrong.
Enjoy your present. |
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 6341 |
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Posted: December 07 2023 at 16:18 |
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I'm on PA's naughty list. However, Santa came early...prematurely, my hubby gave me an early Christmas present that I have been desiring for 12 years. I'm so excited/happy.  I don't care if I'm on PA's naughty list. I like poking fun at the mods because the reason I was punished was for misinformation. I claimed that "natural immunity" was superior to RNA gene therapy. I've been a biologist for 25 years and an RN for 20. My studies and experience biased my opinion. Two years later, history and facts prove me correct...and the Mods wrong. Yet, punishment lingers...As Kurt Vonnegut said, " And so it goes..."  Edited by omphaloskepsis - December 07 2023 at 16:51 |
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Grumpyprogfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 09 2019 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 11603 |
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Posted: December 07 2023 at 15:25 |
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 6341 |
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Posted: December 07 2023 at 14:19 |
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I don't blame you, Logan. You did your best. You can only do so much. Logan interceded for me. Because of Logan, I can vote on polls again. Before Logan...no polls for this girl. Thank you so much, Logan! You're a good guy!
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 35804 |
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Posted: December 07 2023 at 11:56 |
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Okay, whatever. I spent so long trying to fix those issues on more than one occasion (managed to fix some), explained again above, and frankly I am less inclined to try again now.
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 6341 |
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Posted: December 07 2023 at 11:33 |
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The moderators won't let me submit a biography. The moderators won't let me start a thread. I would have to hijack someone else's submission thread to submit a Nospun biography. If I highjacked a submission thread that would be considered inconsiderate.
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Cristi
Special Collaborator
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 43644 |
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Posted: December 07 2023 at 11:07 |
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All we need is a biography, I'm sure the evaluation will go smoothly in their case.
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 35804 |
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Posted: December 07 2023 at 11:03 |
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I thought I had, but maybe I had not explained this particular issue before. Many of your privileges were removed years ago (at a time when I was taking a break from the site, incidentally). I was able to restore some of those (you might remember that I was having technical issues, spent a long time on it) and I tried to restore you being able to post topics in more forums, but it was not sticking. I will try again, but it's not that we are not allowing you, it's now a technical issue (you might try PMing M&x). If worst comes to worst, I can post the suggestion topic in lieu of you (of course making it clear that you prepared it) but I would hope that it includes a bio, links to hear music etc. On another note, I have never liked the descriptions for the stars at this site, which are 5 stars Essential: a masterpiece of progressive rock music, 4 stars an Excellent addition to any prog rock music collection, 3 stars being Good, but non-essential, 2 stars being Collectors/fans only and one star being Poor. Only for completionists (or completists as I would term it). I understand that it's to highlight favouring Prog music in part, but not only would I feel uncomfortable rating an album lower because I don't feel it's that Prog despite being excellent at what it does, but also different people have variances in perspectives when it comes to the boundaries of Prog and progressive music (and what can go under the rock umbrella). For rock, I kind of think of it as genre-bending non-canonical rock and rock without limits. Partially I don't care for it because I would just prefer the phrasing to indicate more subjectivity. It depends on the collector, it depends on the collection, what is essential to one and a masterpiece to another might not be to another etc. For me, it would be something like: 5 stars: Yowza!!! 4 stars: Hurray! 3 stars: Good stuff. 2 stars: Meh. 1 star: Yuck! By the way, any albums that people would recommend to me (especially if knowing a little of my tastes, and happy for it to be of any of the categories at PA). I am craving a bit of post-metal today, or anything edgy, some loungey extreme metal might be nice. I will be looking at peoples lists and trying this and that. Edited by Logan - December 07 2023 at 11:04 |
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28029 |
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Posted: December 07 2023 at 09:54 |
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I can remember when PA only had a submission list of a Top Ten back when at least 40 collabs were taking part. I was one of those that was not happy it was extended to a Twenty simply because I don't believe I have the capacity to identify 20 great albums (or even can they even be guaranteed?!) . However having intended to stick to 10 I couldn't resist going to a 20 because I felt some bands were not getting any attention and that seemed unfair. So nowadays I am relaxed and happy enough to include albums that are not masterpieces or even 'great'. I'm a long time fan of Eloy so will include them unless there are that many stellar albums about. It's feels good to include them and give them a small amount of recognition for their long service record to prog.
At the risk of repeating myself I do believe that all you need to do with this is represent yourself honestly and that is all I can do. (I'm also just a bit too lazy to spend countless hours on a ton of releases!)
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 6341 |
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Posted: December 07 2023 at 08:36 |
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I would have included Nospun- "Opus" in my top 20 if it had been included in Progachives. Nospun plans to release the CD "Opus" any day now...with vinyl to follow. The download of Opus has been available for half a year. I'd suggest Nospun to be included in PA, but alas the moderators won't let me suggest new bands.
Edited by omphaloskepsis - December 07 2023 at 08:37 |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21162 |
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Posted: December 07 2023 at 06:32 |
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^ similar to what I ended up using at AP. I word it differently though these days and try to avoid conflating the highest ratings with concepts like “classic” and “masterpiece”.
At AP we now have tiers - G through A (Awesome) and then the extra S tier (Stellar). I’d say that for these lists usually only A and S are appropriate, but the occasional B release could also fit, for example if it is a really interesting debut album by a young band. Ultimately I’d say that anything is ALLOWED 😊 Edited by MikeEnRegalia - December 07 2023 at 06:37 |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20240 |
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Posted: December 07 2023 at 02:27 |
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It has happened (once at least) that I didn't enter a full list before, because I didn't want to give points to mediocre albums, but in most cases, I'm dealing with lists of 40 or 50 albums retained for consideration. For those aware of Gnosis2000's rating scales, I don't envisage to put in top lists anything below a Gnosis11 (out of a scale of 15), though a G10 rating is still a four  album (12, 11 and 10 are 4), but I'm very conservative of 5 on PA and >G12 on Gnosis (I've never used G15)Here is what it gave for the last decade or so. 2022: 23 Gnosis11+ (G12 max) 2021: 20 Gnosis11+ (G12 max) 2020: 16 Gnosis11+ (G12 max) 19: 21 Gnosis11+ (G12 max) 18: 30 Gnosis11+ (G13 max) Vak is the G13 17: 19 Gnosis11+ (G12 max) 16: 17 Gnosis11+ (G12 max) 15: 29 Gnosis11+ (G13 max) Kamasi & Maalouf are G13 14: 12 Gnosis11+ (G12 max) 13: 8 Gnosis11+ (G13 max) Setna & Maalouf are G13 12: 12 Gnosis11+ (G12 max) Gnosis rating scale: 15: One of the best ever, perfect. We suggest to raters that,
at most, the top 1% of all albums receive a 15. While any rating from 12
through 15 can accurately be described with the superlatives "masterpiece"
or "classic," only the 15s should appeal to the rater in as profound a
manner as possible.
14: A near perfect classic. In many ways, the difference between 15s and 14s are barely existent; 14s are fantastic albums that either have a very minor flaw or just dont take it to the next level. We suggest to raters that, at most, the top 5% of all albums receive either a 14 or 15. 13: A classic, but not one of the very best. 13s are exalted grades. They are used for albums that the raters consider a classic or a masterpiece, yet did not make the very peak of the hill. A 13 is still an extremely highly recommended item, one that has few flaws. This rating can also be considered an "in-between" grade between favorites and borderline classics. 12: A borderline classic. A 12 is an album that one might instantly apply the word "classic" to, but on deeper reflection, one might not be so sure. There may be slight flaws that would have one hesitate on an intensely specific and critical level, yet a 12 is still an album that would have one mesmerized. 11: Excellent. While not a classic, an album that is very enjoyable and an important part of ones collection. We recommend that raters not give grades higher than 11 on the very first listen. 10: Very good. An album that, while not great, is definitely worth keeping and is very enjoyable. 9: Pretty good. While an album better than most, one may or may not keep an album with a rating of 9. 8: Slightly above average. An album with noticeable flaws, although few permeate the album entirely. Perhaps half the album is superb but the other half is so-so. Or there's a sentimental connection and little else. 7: Completely mediocre. Neither good nor bad. In the greater scheme of things, an album rated as a 7 has been buried under a pile of much superior titles, and while one is not ready to pan it, the rating implies, that, ercan you put something else on? 6: Slightly below average. Just a tad worse than mediocre. Perhaps some parts are outright annoying or distasteful. 5: Below average. Maybe not outright "bad", but definitely a poor effort. 4: Pretty bad. A grade of 4 indicates a strong recommendation to avoid. 3: Bad. An album that contains a handful of decent moments in an otherwise atrocious outing. 2: Very bad, but there are worse. Although an incredibly poor effort, not one of the very worst. However, thats not to say that there are any redeeming values.
1: The worst thing ever. Intolerable. Godawful. A frisbee. A perfect
example of something that one loves to hate. |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21162 |
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Posted: December 07 2023 at 00:16 |
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^ Yes, that IO Earth album is one of the very few releases that are neither available on Spotify nor on Bandcamp.
Have a look at the user results, there are links to Spotify and/or Bandcamp for every release (look for the icons on the cover art). But of course all this boils down to taste - and there are so many releases that if you listen to 100 randomly selected ones chances are low that you'll find a masterpiece. One good strategy to increase the odds is to browse the charts of users which have a similar taste as you.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28029 |
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Posted: December 07 2023 at 00:00 |
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I've managed about 60-70 albums all told , most being the usual suspects. Nowadays I don't bother unless the band is available for streaming and that sometimes rules out certain bands like IO Earth for instance who seem to avoid Apple like the plague (maybe sensibly). Since I went part time after the pandemic I just don't have the disposable income to buy a bunch of CD's which have now got very expensive. I'm happy with most of what I've heard this year and it's been a remarkably strong year with even the old 'gits' such as Yes, Tull and Uriah Heep putting out decent albums. Most things I've 'rejected' such as King Gizzard and Swans has been purely on the basis of taste (or lack of in my case) not because they are bad in any way. I am guided a lot by the front of the site but it's nice to pick up recommendations any which way. I remember a few years ago Waste Of Space Orchestra - Syntheosis getting a bit of late 'buzz' from the collabs. I didn't include it in my list at the time but now regard it as a masterpeice and wish I had included it. Unfortunately I will inevitably end up late to the party when it comes to some albums.
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MikeEnRegalia
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21162 |
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Posted: December 06 2023 at 23:30 |
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Yes, I think that browsing through the individual lists can be very valuable. I'll try to make that simpler on the results page as well as in the final report.
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MikeEnRegalia
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21162 |
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Posted: December 06 2023 at 23:28 |
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Well, I think in this case you still have some listening to do
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Logan wrote: