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Most Overrated Band of the 'Big Six'
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Poll Question: Who is the most overrated band of the 'Big Six'?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
73 [35.96%]
26 [12.81%]
28 [13.79%]
20 [9.85%]
37 [18.23%]
19 [9.36%]
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runciblemoon View Drop Down
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Can showing off never serve the music in any way? That said I'm not even sure that showing off was the problem. Mozart liked to show off a bit but didn't seem to do him any harm. I think something else is it play, mainly that ELP had too much fun. Prog was meant to be serious and yet there was Emerson 'w**king off' on stage with a synthesiser lol. Just too many theatrics detracted from the music perhaps but even that's debateable. ELP (Emerson mainly) composed quite an impressive array of music on those early albums but they lack the cohesion of say a Dark Side of The Moon to make it feel important. You get a lot of random ideas at times but there is no lack of invention or innovation. Trouble is when they did take things very very seriously with Works Volume One they got slaughtered by the press!

Well said. I also think, through no fault of his own, a lot of Emerson's synth work sounds much more overtly dated than many of his contemporaries. Emerson was right at the forefront of pushing rock into new sonic territory, and he took big, big risks in doing so at times. The end result is sound selections on those classic ELP records that can sometimes come across as "tacky" with the benefit of hindsight, whereas the stately mellotrons, hard rock hammonds and comparatively tasteful moog solos from other "big six" bands tend to feel much less overtly dated to modern ears.
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^ I would agree that Emerson in particular was a pioneer but ELP also get criticised by the prog cognescenti as they dared to incorporate other genres as well so their albums are considered 'uneven'.  It's like saying Led Zep are a heavy metal band...
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Originally posted by Rick1 Rick1 wrote:

^ It's like saying Led Zep are a heavy metal band...

Led Zeppelin did a few heavy songs, definitely relevant to the beginnings of hard rock and heavy metal. 
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Regarding having too much fun with ELP, I know that I like plenty of bands had fun in the music... Focus' Hamburger Concerto was one of my first Prog loves, and I still love it. Or Magma with Attahk, but there is something distasteful about ELP's (particularly Emerson) show-offery, which makes it comes off as yobbish. And I use sexual innuendo, and can be crude, but things like Taste of My Love and a title like Brain Salad Surgery leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I do think that if ELP came across as more refined then they would be more highly regarded by the Prognoscenti. They commonly are seen more as showmen, quite in your face ones, more than serious musicians and composers. Being an introvert, and very reserved in public (I have social anxiety), I have trouble identifying with them -- come across as too rowdy and crude for me. And honestly, In the Hot Seat is so terrible and the lyrics of Daddy are horrible. They were never nearing consistently good to my ears, but I really do like some ELP music, and enjoy the debut mostly.
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Originally posted by Rick1 Rick1 wrote:

^ I would agree that Emerson in particular was a pioneer but ELP also get criticised by the prog cognescenti as they dared to incorporate other genres as well so their albums are considered 'uneven'.  It's like saying Led Zep are a heavy metal band...

On the subject of Led Zeppelin, I bought this monumental Led Zeppelin DVD today. It's the best 50 pence I ever spent. Big smile
 


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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

^ I agree but
Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

Not to mention that I'm sure there are as many prog fans who absolutely can't stand VdGG than those who love them.
that's a thing VdGG and ELP have in common.

Well, I'm not sure that there are many prog fans who absolutely cant satnd VdGG than those who love them.

This is not my perception.


Instead, I'm sure that among the big six + VdGg, fans of classic/heartland/roots rock/punk+new wave, the most hated are EL&P and Yes (but also Genesis and Pink Floyd), the most loved are King Crimson and VdGg (JT are in between).


Edited by jamesbaldwin - May 03 2023 at 12:27
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^ VDGG would never qualify as one of the "Big Six" - not even for a fan - as almost everyone I know only associates Van der Graaf Generator with something that makes your hair stand on end, although I could say the same thing about the Pawn Hearts album too. Tongue
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Points: 19260 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jared Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2023 at 13:12
Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

^ I agree but
Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

Not to mention that I'm sure there are as many prog fans who absolutely can't stand VdGG than those who love them.
that's a thing VdGG and ELP have in common.

Well, I'm not sure that there are many prog fans who absolutely cant satnd VdGG than those who love them.

This is not my perception.


Instead, I'm sure that among the big six + VdGg, fans of classic/heartland/roots rock/punk+new wave, the most hated are EL&P and Yes (but also Genesis and Pink Floyd), the most loved are King Crimson and VdGg (JT are in between).

Just a gut feeling, but I'm not sure there has ever been a sizeable group of forum members who have disliked VDGG or can't get into their music; with a bit of perseverance, they are quite accessible. I think more have struggled with (some eras of) KC, although they also remain incredibly popular.
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^Honestly...I'm indifferent to VdGg. I've tried multiple times but it just leaves me...Meh.
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Points: 19260 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jared Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2023 at 14:12
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

^Honestly...I'm indifferent to VdGg. I've tried multiple times but it just leaves me...Meh.

Fair enough. I won't insult you by suggesting you tried 'World Record'; a popular entry point for those (like me) from a more melodic-prog background...
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

^ VDGG would never qualify as one of the "Big Six" - not even for a fan - as almost everyone I know only associates Van der Graaf Generator with something that makes your hair stand on end, although I could say the same thing about the Pawn Hearts album too. Tongue

You mean Van der Graaf Generator is a hair dryer?
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Jared View Drop Down
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Points: 19260 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jared Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2023 at 14:31
Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:


You mean Van der Graaf Generator is a hair dryer?

Paul can be remarkably 'black and white' when he appraises bands... LOL 
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Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
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Points: 40073 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2023 at 14:33
Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

^ VDGG would never qualify as one of the "Big Six" - not even for a fan - as almost everyone I know only associates Van der Graaf Generator with something that makes your hair stand on end, although I could say the same thing about the Pawn Hearts album too. Tongue

You mean Van der Graaf Generator is a hair dryer?
With the tremendous build up of static electricity from a Van der Graaf Generator, it's more likely to fry your hair than dry your hair. Tongue
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Pink Floyd. Easily. Without a question. The most overrated band of all time. You know what's really overrated?

Their album Animals. That's what is really overrated.

You know how I know it is really overrated?

I went to a record store and overheard some woman talking to her daughter about the "underrated band, Pink Floyd," and that their most "underrated album is Animals." During my first year at university, in my required writing 101 class, there was a student who wrote an essay on "Pink Floyd, the most underrated band ever" and how Animals is "their absolute most underrated album." Ad f**king infinitum.

There comes a point that when everybody calls a band underrated, then the band is not in fact underrated, but overrated - it's just a buzzword for an artist you like, but if everyone likes them, how could they be underrated? Also go on to RYM. Pink Floyd has the third and the tenth highest rated album on the entire site, and the third and eighth most rated albums on the entire site. The only other artist on here that made the top ten all-time charts there is King Crimson, and only once, at number 4 and 11 (not technically top ten), respectively. On Discogs, Pink Floyd has THE MOST, as well as the sixth, the seventh, and the fifteenth most collected album on the entire site. No other artist in this poll made even the top 50. Pink Floyd showed up five times (at number 33, also). They also have THE MSOT wanted, as well as the third. the fifth, the 21st, the 22nd, and the 38th most wanted albums on the site. The only other artist here to show up is King Crimson at number 24.

Sometimes artist this popular deserve their popularity. In my opinion, Pink Floyd is NOT one of them. Sorry. It also doesn't help that most Pink FLoyd fans are like Tool fans - they don't stfu about the artist and will relentlessly call them the greatest band ever. Music that changed their life. Etc. I'm so sick of it lol They're a competent psychedelic rock band with some innovative and groundbreaking compositional techniques. But they're not THAT good. They're too political for me to really enjoy personally, but the pretentiousness of their music is what turns me off (yes, you can be progressive without being pretentious - look at Renaissance) - same reason I am not a fan of Tool - and it's not worth feeding the enormous ego that is Roger Waters (on whom I shall not elaborate here, but he's the reason I REFUSE to listen to the band - this is not impacting my opinion. I'd feel this way regardless of Waters' jackassery).


Edited by bardberic - May 03 2023 at 15:04
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Boojieboy View Drop Down
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A toss-up between the Pink Floyd and ELP. I went with Floyd due to Dark Side of the Moon. None of the ELP albums are pushed and celebrated like that overrated poop.

There's no notable sense of ego with ELP, but there sure is/was with PF.


Edited by Boojieboy - May 03 2023 at 15:38
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

^ VDGG would never qualify as one of the "Big Six" - not even for a fan - as almost everyone I know only associates Van der Graaf Generator with something that makes your hair stand on end, although I could say the same thing about the Pawn Hearts album too. Tongue

You mean Van der Graaf Generator is a hair dryer?
With the tremendous build up of static electricity from a Van der Graaf Generator, it's more likely to fry your hair than dry your hair. Tongue


I guess this is just the reason I love Hammill!LOL
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I'm sticking with the Monkees. I have no idea why prog fans drool over them.
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^ Because Mike could pluck a mean string and Davy was cute as a button. 

But I agree, enough with the Monkees around here... and why are they in RIO/Avant ?
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I'm sticking with the Monkees. I have no idea why prog fans drool over them.

Here is why:
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As the discussion went on without including my reply to richardh ("lost" at the bottom of the previous page):
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

richardh "Can showing off never serve the music in any way?"
-Probably from your perspective, but maybe not for me? I'm only speaking from my point of view - which Im fully aware I is pretty much the same angle most everyone criticizes ELP from btw. It's not even critique. I was mainly explaining where I'm coming from and that I'm not hopping on a "pile on ELP-trend". As you already know these two different kinds of progfans, isn't anything new.

Showing off on your instrument, taking up too much space while contributing with nothing of substance or whatever - has always rubbed me the wrong way. Whether it's John McLaughlin, Jaco Pastorious or Keith Emerson doing it. I guess maybe in classical music I let it pass easier - as I take less notice of it (but I don't really listen to Mozart much either).

Showing off serves the music for those who enjoy listening to artists showing off. I like many, don't belong in the former group of fans. I find flashy solos bothersome and annoying, if not always - say nine out of ten times. It's about preferences, so neither richardh or I am wrong - or right.


Edited by Saperlipopette! - May 04 2023 at 00:49
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