Most Overrated Band of the &#039;Big Six&#039;

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Posted: May 02 2023 at 03:15

Sorry Catcher and others, but if Rush were one of The Big Six, I'd return my Prog card. LOL

quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond

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Posted: May 02 2023 at 03:52

ELP had the courtesy to quit in 79 - King Crimson did so earlier in 74 as well and reincarnated effectively for the 80s. Jethro Tull are not really prog as such so they get my vote.

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Posted: May 02 2023 at 04:40

David_D wrote:

Saperlipopette! wrote:

^ I just mean that they seem more popular or "bigger" on places such as PA and RYM. Not that something is wrong or false. One may get the impression that VdGG has infact "grown more popular than ELP" because we're in a bubble where that appears to be true. But outside of the bubble(s) ELP has almost 20 times more listeners still. But VdGG are more popular among people that are obsessive with music - which of course counts for something.

I presume that is for streaming, and if so, you don't think that the total number of listenings to VdGG when including all media, like vinyl and CD, can be relatively seen much higher and come closer to that of ELP?

Probably some, yes. Seeing how much more online interest the spark, I would guess VdGG are listened to more often by those who own physical copies of their music (but there has to be millions more physical copies of ELP-albums out there). As I said I'm guessing, but VdGG seem to have the most "rabid fanbase" of the two in this millennia. I brought the factual numbers available here to adjust the opposite impression that Jamesbaldwin(?) left us, with his lists from PA. Besides I did write:

Saperlipopette! wrote:

These numbers doesn’t tell the full story. I know.

but that's the numbers I got.

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Posted: May 02 2023 at 05:02

Saperlipopette! wrote:

VdGG seem to have the most "rabid fanbase" of the two

Yeah, Van der Graaf Generator are the best group EVER!!

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Posted: May 02 2023 at 05:34

To be part of the Big Six, you don't just need acclaimed albums, but you need to be, well, Big. To be successful in the golden age of prog, to still be referenced to this day, to have modern prog bands clearly taking after you, etc. VdGG isn't big in that sense. You'll see the odd ELP or Crimson reference outside of the prog-sphere once in a while, but VdGG is too niche for that. For example, before I started getting into prog, I had already seen the album covers for ITCOTCK and Tarkus many times. I've encountered all of the bands in the Big Six in unexpected places, but not VdGG. Not to mention that I'm sure there are as many prog fans who absolutely can't stand VdGG than those who love them.

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Posted: May 02 2023 at 07:01

^ I agree but

Stressed Cheese wrote:

Not to mention that I'm sure there are as many prog fans who absolutely can't stand VdGG than those who love them.

that's a thing VdGG and ELP have in common.

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Posted: May 02 2023 at 07:13

Rick1 wrote:

ELP had the courtesy to quit in 79 - King Crimson did so earlier in 74 as well and reincarnated effectively for the 80s. Jethro Tull are not really prog as such so they get my vote.

It seems to me that ELP should have quit after the live triple and their legacy would have been intact. The Works and Love Beach did a massive amount of damage it seems to me. Crimson somehow managed to skirt all the way round the punk movement and maybe that helped retained respect.

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Posted: May 02 2023 at 07:20

siLLy puPPy wrote:

Hugh Manatee wrote:

The dichotomy here appears to be that despite being voted the most overrated band, ELP don't seem to be very highly rated 'round here.

Perhaps the lowest rated of the Big Six presented but still several albums in the PA top 250

#85 - ELP debut

#179 - Brain Salad Surgery

#203 - Trilogy

if we had a top 500 then Tarkus would surely be on it with a 4.07 score from 2015 ratings

I seem to have the point out many times on this site that the first 6 albums (inc the live triple) actually have decent ratings. As a fan I have no issue whatsoever with these scores. Works Vol One is slight underrated but that is the only one I have a small quibble with. There is a lot of music on this site that is extremely highly valued and albums that are better and more organised than ELP's slightly chaotic approach. ELP were really a live 'festival' band and not ones for hanging about in the studio. They had equally large egos as befitting their massive talent and divided opinion then and now. There are worst things to be!

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Posted: May 02 2023 at 08:18

For what it's worth, i used to dislike ELP quite a bit because they were OVERHYPED (the word that should be used instead of overrated).

Last time i did a marathon of their first four albums though i was blown away having matured into them i guess.

Despite that i'd still prefer Yes, Gentle Giant, VDGG, Cardiacs and quite a few other bands over them any day.

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Posted: May 02 2023 at 08:26

Pink Floyd

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Posted: May 02 2023 at 08:45

David_D wrote:

ELP is overrated because it's underrated. LOL

It might also be that The Big Six have been reduced to The Big Five. Unhappy

quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond

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Posted: May 02 2023 at 09:02

Yes

Heaven is waiting but waiting is Hell

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Posted: May 02 2023 at 10:29

richardh wrote:

Rick1 wrote:

ELP had the courtesy to quit in 79 - King Crimson did so earlier in 74 as well and reincarnated effectively for the 80s. Jethro Tull are not really prog as such so they get my vote.

Even at the height of their prowess ELP where held up by the music press, who were stumbling over themsleves to promote punk at the time, as representing everything that was wrong with music.

Now it seems according to this poll it has become trendy even within prog circles to pile onto ELP.

There appeaars to be some element of resentment that somehow ELPs later output has made some come to the conclusion that those darn punks might have been right all along.

I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across the floors of uncertain seas

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Posted: May 02 2023 at 17:08

According to JD, Love Beach would make much better impression with this cover Big smile

Edited by David_D - May 02 2023 at 17:11

quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond

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Posted: May 02 2023 at 17:15

Anyway, this thread may have revealed ELP as my favourite band. Big smile

quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond

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Posted: May 02 2023 at 19:43

David_D wrote:

Anyway, this thread may have revealed ELP as my favourite band. Big smile

This week, I've been spinning ELP- Works Live! Can't get enough. Fits my current mood...perfect!

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Posted: May 02 2023 at 23:53

Hugh Manatee wrote:

Even at the height of their prowess ELP where held up by the music press, who were stumbling over themsleves to promote punk at the time, as representing everything that was wrong with music.

Now it seems according to this poll it has become trendy even within prog circles to pile onto ELP.

Nothing to do with trends. It's been like that for as long as I can remember. ELP has always been one of the most polarizing bands in prog. Whether within the realms of prog or not, ELP typically represents the sort of music that I have no interest in. Whenever I get the feeling musicians are just showing off to impress me rather than serving the music - it's been a turn off for me (I got the same reaction to many of PA's favorite jazz rock fusion albums). I rarely enjoy the pompous bombast or excess that many proggers simply can't get enough of. I think I can understand the attraction, but to me personally, ELP is like eating your wedding cake every day.

Btw: I don't think the music press were stumbling over themsleves to promote punk in 1972-1973.

Edited by Saperlipopette! - May 02 2023 at 23:54

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Posted: May 03 2023 at 00:52

My "Big Six" in order of preference:-

1. YES

2. Pink Floyd

3. Genesis

4. ELP

5. Jethro Tull

6. King Crimson

My own personal "Big Six" Wink

1. Mostly Autumn

2. Renaissance

3. Camel

4. YES

5. Pink Floyd

6. Genesis

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Posted: May 03 2023 at 07:33

Saperlipopette! wrote:

Hugh Manatee wrote:

Even at the height of their prowess ELP where held up by the music press, who were stumbling over themsleves to promote punk at the time, as representing everything that was wrong with music.

Now it seems according to this poll it has become trendy even within prog circles to pile onto ELP.

Btw: I don't think the music press were stumbling over themsleves to promote punk in 1972-1973.

Can showing off never serve the music in any way? That said I'm not even sure that showing off was the problem. Mozart liked to show off a bit but didn't seem to do him any harm. I think something else is it play, mainly that ELP had too much fun. Prog was meant to be serious and yet there was Emerson 'w**king off' on stage with a synthesiser lol. Just too many theatrics detracted from the music perhaps but even that's debateable. ELP (Emerson mainly) composed quite an impressive array of music on those early albums but they lack the cohesion of say a Dark Side of The Moon to make it feel important. You get a lot of random ideas at times but there is no lack of invention or innovation. Trouble is when they did take things very very seriously with Works Volume One they got slaughtered by the press!

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