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projeKct View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote projeKct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2022 at 14:18
Originally posted by projeKct projeKct wrote:

^ Thanks.

Mortte is not using the usual way for asking corrections, but after some research I can say he's right.

So I contacted Heart of the Matter and asked him to re-post his nice review to the original 2007 release. Then we could delete the 2022 remastered album page, along with both reviews.

Now let's wait...
Thanks to Heart of the Matter, the review was re-uploaded the the original album page. The 2022 reissue will soon disappear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2022 at 05:22
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

^ Neither Keishiro nor I are on the site every day, but we do respond to PMs as soon as we can usually.

I deleted that Riverside review as well as five rating for it. I copied the review and will PM it to the reviewer while mentioning why I deleted it, and explain some other things. if it was a legitimate review of a promo copy, that should be stated and explained that it was with permission. Sometimes such reviews are off leaked demos, unfinal takes, and not full copies too.

The Riverside review is back.
The album is out in a month or so. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2022 at 08:20
^ Thanks Cristi. The reviewer did tell me that it was a legitimate/ legal advance copy before. While I do see potential problems with others rating it when they shouldn't, and the reasons for having such an early copy should have been in the review, based on my discussion with the reviewer and Keishiro before, I'm more comfortable letting the review stand for now (even if wrongly).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2022 at 09:33
^ why not just make it a blanket policy to ban reviews before an official release? This is a database not a promo magazine.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2022 at 10:02
^ I've suggested that before, but it didn't get much if any support. There were some good arguments against it. Maybe within a week before official release as it is is common to get copies, and not promo copies early. If someone else wants to present the case, that might be good.

I've suggested not adding the albums early. We could have a forum page dedicated to that where we're ready to add on the day.

By the way, some have argued that PA should be acting like a promo site.

Edited by Logan - December 18 2022 at 10:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tapfret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2022 at 17:30
Yeesh!

This review rolled across my Facebook feed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote projeKct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2022 at 20:43
^ I don't want to be mean and/or stupid, but what's wrong with this review?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2022 at 02:55
Originally posted by projeKct projeKct wrote:

^ I don't want to be mean and/or stupid, but what's wrong with this review?

Nothing, he just doesn’t rate it very highly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2022 at 02:56
Originally posted by projeKct projeKct wrote:

^ I don't want to be mean and/or stupid, but what's wrong with this review?

 it sounds like an angry bitter rant. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2022 at 04:56
To me that black midi Cavalcade review appears permissible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2022 at 05:05
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

To me that black midi Cavalcade review appears permissible.

It is indeed, but I have said before that whilst the review might well fall within acceptable boundaries set by the site rules, it is not a review which is going to add to PA’s reputation in the music world. Indeed, I would venture that it will decrease it ever so slightly further.

I know none of you will take a blind bit of notice of this, but I will say it anyway. I feel it is time for a major overhaul of the way the reviews are done on PA, and that should include an end to the “Wild West” of anybody and everybody being able to publish reviews. There must be some form of quality control in that only trusted reviewers are able to publish without moderation and everybody else undergoes some form of probation where their work is moderated before publication and then allowed to become trusted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougmcauliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2022 at 05:56
I'll never take a review seriously that doesn't actually mention a song title, or anything about the music at hand. It reads as somebody who listened to it once, and then does the absolute bare minimum with surface level comparrisons (eg. King Crimson, Mars Volta) most likely to just influence the rating since reviews carry 10x of the weight that a simple rating would, I feel like the main criticism being that it's "overhyped" in the review feeds into that. Kinda agree that it is really doing the bare minimum and I think the rule of thumb should be that if a review in question could clearly be written by somebody who's never heard the album before, it probably should be axed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote projeKct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2022 at 16:11
^ Thanks Steve and Doug for your explanations, that makes sense. It's harder to write a negative review than a positive review, but this reviewer could have done better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2022 at 16:56
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by projeKct projeKct wrote:

^ I don't want to be mean and/or stupid, but what's wrong with this review?
Nothing, he just doesn’t rate it very highly.

That's far from the only thing, in fact who cares about the rating?  Someone can rate however they like, right?  It's the review which is at about a ninth grade level... putting it nicely.  But we don't usually remove reviews for poor execution, either, do we.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Necrotica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2022 at 19:24
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

But we don't usually remove reviews for poor execution, either, do we.

Maybe it's a controversial opinion, but I think we should. 

Something that's always bugged me a bit about PA is that reviews for a given album are ordered from oldest to newest, because those old reviews don't reflect the average quality of modern PA writeups. Not that I'm trying to bash those early reviewers, because obviously standards were different back then, but things have changed quite significantly since then. But for NEW reviews (like the one Tapfret referenced) to still exhibit those old traits... that's a lot more inexcusable in my opinion
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2022 at 20:54
^ Depends--  true for the Album page, but not for the Artist page which lists newest reviews first.  Plus there are some key early reviews by founders, SCs, etc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2022 at 21:01
Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

But we don't usually remove reviews for poor execution, either, do we.

Maybe it's a controversial opinion, but I think we should. 

Something that's always bugged me a bit about PA is that reviews for a given album are ordered from oldest to newest, because those old reviews don't reflect the average quality of modern PA writeups. Not that I'm trying to bash those early reviewers, because obviously standards were different back then, but things have changed quite significantly since then. But for NEW reviews (like the one Tapfret referenced) to still exhibit those old traits... that's a lot more inexcusable in my opinion


All you have to do is scroll down to the bottom to get the latest review on any album. Easy enough me thinks :)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tapfret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2022 at 14:04
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

To me that black midi Cavalcade review appears permissible.


It is indeed, but I have said before that whilst the review might well fall within acceptable boundaries set by the site rules, it is not a review which is going to add to PA’s reputation in the music world. Indeed, I would venture that it will decrease it ever so slightly further.

I know none of you will take a blind bit of notice of this, but I will say it anyway. I feel it is time for a major overhaul of the way the reviews are done on PA, and that should include an end to the “Wild West” of anybody and everybody being able to publish reviews. There must be some form of quality control in that only trusted reviewers are able to publish without moderation and everybody else undergoes some form of probation where their work is moderated before publication and then allowed to become trusted.


On your first point, that's exactly the problem I had with it. Sure, it accomplishes the bare minimum of album description, but I know way more now about the author's hate of The Mars Volta than anything relevant about the album. As you say, this is not a value added review and certainly should not be on the front page or the site's Facebook page to showcase what is offered by the site.

To your second point, I agree, but I am also aware of the added volunteer work that would require and probably a software overhaul that I really don't see happening.
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

All you have to do is scroll down to the bottom to get the latest review on any album. Easy enough me thinks :)


True enough, but the site defaults back and new users will always see the newest first. And of course, you only get one first impression.

Edited by Tapfret - December 30 2022 at 14:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2022 at 16:07
^ not sure if first impressions matter when reading reviews at least not for me they don't. ANyways, maybe someone could fix it. It would make more sense to have the newest reviews seen first.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2022 at 17:11
 
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

I know none of you will take a blind bit of notice of this, but I will say it anyway. I feel it is time for a major overhaul of the way the reviews are done on PA, and that should include an end to the “Wild West” of anybody and everybody being able to publish reviews. There must be some form of quality control in that only trusted reviewers are able to publish without moderation and everybody else undergoes some form of probation where their work is moderated before publication and then allowed to become trusted.

Sounds good, incredibly challenging in practice I imagine.  Doesn't mean it's not worth considering [or even trying for a time] but both the amount of labor required to read, decide, possibly edit, ultimately judge whether someone's humble if naive or badly-written bit is worthy would be intensive;  as well as the toll it would take on the imaginary volunteers required for this task.

And let's not forget one of the main reasons this place became popular was because anyone could spontaneously post their own little article on a famous album and have a page with all their opins, rants & raves, and gushing praise.   Not to mention the flak we'd all get from the geniuses who think they're a lot better than they are.   Oh the humanity.




Edited by Atavachron - December 30 2022 at 17:13
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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