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Do you stay away from prog-metal?

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Poll Question: Do you stay away from prog-metal?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
7 [8.05%]
20 [22.99%]
12 [13.79%]
13 [14.94%]
18 [20.69%]
8 [9.20%]
4 [4.60%]
0 [0.00%]
5 [5.75%]
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nick_h_nz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2022 at 05:27
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

I have to admit that when it comes to prog metal, very little of what is actually under the “prog metal” genre of PA is to my taste.
Then why are you a member of the prog metal team??? Wouldn't the team be better served with a member who's taste prefers prog metal?

That was exactly my reaction when I asked to join the team. It seemed bizarre to me, that I was ever asked in the first place. But, as Cristi says, it was because their was a belief that I would be able to evaluate the bands without necessarily enjoying them. I have reviewed a lot of prog metal albums for TPA (most of which are reposted on PA), and I believe I am capable of overcoming any subjectivity or aversion to certain styles.

I don’t think there is a single member of the present prog metal team who like all the different styles of prog metal. But we complement each other nicely, and where Cristi might not like something, I might, or vice versa, we still overly often come up with the same opinion as to whether something is approved or rejected. I would say there is probably more that we ALL do NOT like that is accepted by the prog metal team than that we all DO like.

(Conversely, a lot of what we do like, is rejected because - even if we enjoy it - it’s not really prog “enough” for PA.)

[EDIT] I was thinking it is obvious, but it perhaps is not - but please remember that the prog metal team evaluates artists for all three PA prog metal genres, and while much of “prog metal” is not to my taste, a great deal of “experimental/post” is. Furthermore, bands that are considered prog metal outside PA often don’t quite fit our genres, and end up going elsewhere. While I have been on the team, we have sent submissions across to “heavy”, “RIO/avant”, “post/math”, and “crossover”. Even if they are not considered prog metal by PA’s definitions, quite often I would still think of them as that, and they are known as prog metal outside PA (hence why they came to us in the first place).




Edited by nick_h_nz - May 16 2022 at 05:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2022 at 06:25
^ That makes as much sense as Paul being a member of the RIO/Avant team.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2022 at 06:56
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^ That makes as much sense as Paul being a member of the RIO/Avant team.
Oh My God! That sounds like my worst nightmare. Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Necrotica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2022 at 07:45
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

I have to admit that when it comes to prog metal, very little of what is actually under the “prog metal” genre of PA is to my taste.
Then why are you a member of the prog metal team??? Wouldn't the team be better served with a member who's taste prefers prog metal?


That was exactly my reaction when I asked to join the team. It seemed bizarre to me, that I was ever asked in the first place. But, as Cristi says, it was because their was a belief that I would be able to evaluate the bands without necessarily enjoying them. I have reviewed a lot of prog metal albums for TPA (most of which are reposted on PA), and I believe I am capable of overcoming any subjectivity or aversion to certain styles.

I don’t think there is a single member of the present prog metal team who like all the different styles of prog metal. But we complement each other nicely, and where Cristi might not like something, I might, or vice versa, we still overly often come up with the same opinion as to whether something is approved or rejected. I would say there is probably more that we ALL do NOT like that is accepted by the prog metal team than that we all DO like.

(Conversely, a lot of what we do like, is rejected because - even if we enjoy it - it’s not really prog “enough” for PA.)

[EDIT] I was thinking it is obvious, but it perhaps is not - but please remember that the prog metal team evaluates artists for all three PA prog metal genres, and while much of “prog metal” is not to my taste, a great deal of “experimental/post” is. Furthermore, bands that are considered prog metal outside PA often don’t quite fit our genres, and end up going elsewhere. While I have been on the team, we have sent submissions across to “heavy”, “RIO/avant”, “post/math”, and “crossover”. Even if they are not considered prog metal by PA’s definitions, quite often I would still think of them as that, and they are known as prog metal outside PA (hence why they came to us in the first place).





Yeah, I remember us talking about this earlier. To be honest, I think having collaborators who each have a different level of affection for a given genre is a good thing - having a more unbiased perspective in the group keeps things at a level playing field and ensures that we don’t go crazy and add every single band or artist that comes our way. It’s a way of keeping us all in check.

Out of all the current prog metal collaborators, I’d venture to say I’m probably the one who enjoys the genre the most; however, much like Nick and Cristi, there are subgenres I prefer over others. For instance, exp/post is the one I listen to the least, while Cristi doesn’t have particularly strong feelings toward a lot of the tech/extreme stuff sent our way. But again, having varied tastes and preferences makes being on the team more fun… honestly, I tend to enjoy our little arguments over semantics, as weird as that may sound
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Archisorcerus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2022 at 08:13
Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

To be honest, I think having collaborators who each have a different level of affection for a given genre is a good thing - having a more unbiased perspective in the group keeps things at a level playing field and ensures that we don’t go crazy and add every single band or artist that comes our way. It’s a way of keeping us all in check.


Sorry but a base level of prog metal knowledge seems mandatory to be in such a team. Nick never heard that a band called Redemption exists, and he never listened to Fates Warning while he was in your team. (I guess he still hasn't listened to any of their music.)

Affection is one thing and the lack thereof can be overlooked, but the fundamental knowledge of the prog pioneers/giants should be a must to be deemed a "specialist".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2022 at 08:21
Originally posted by Archisorcerus Archisorcerus wrote:

Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

To be honest, I think having collaborators who each have a different level of affection for a given genre is a good thing - having a more unbiased perspective in the group keeps things at a level playing field and ensures that we don’t go crazy and add every single band or artist that comes our way. It’s a way of keeping us all in check.


Sorry but a base level of prog metal knowledge seems mandatory to be in such a team. Nick never heard that a band called Redemption exists, and he never listened to Fates Warning while he was in your team. (I guess he still hasn't listened to any of their music.)

Affection is one thing and the lack thereof can be overlooked, but the fundamental knowledge of the prog pioneers/giants should be a must to be deemed a "specialist".

Nick is quite knowledgeable, he knows plenty of bands, some i know little or nothing about, I know bands he does not know much about, but that's not the issue here. We listen to all sorts of bands (from the three subgenres) that whether we like what we hear or not, we have to listen, evaluate and decide if they belong here or not. 


Edited by Cristi - May 16 2022 at 08:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Archisorcerus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2022 at 08:23
^ In order to "evaluate" prog metal credibly, one has to know about Fates Warning's music. I'm even tempted to say "period" here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2022 at 08:35
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^ That makes as much sense as Paul being a member of the RIO/Avant team.   

No, that is not at all the case, and if you truly believe that (which I doubt) then that shows a completely lack of understanding in how the collaborators work. I think the prog metal team works really well at the moment. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, and likes and dislikes. And often it is the argument between us that makes us listen again, and sometimes change our mind. I tend to love the Exp/Post stuff that Brendan doesn’t, and I don’t mind a lot the dissonant and brutal stuff that fits the Tech/Extreme genre. Outside PA “Brutal Prog” is a recognised genre. It’s not one that could easily be used in PA, though, as the bands viewed as brutal prog are spread between RIO/Avant, Tech/Extreme and Exp/Post.

The more “vanilla” (and Cristi absolutely hates me using that term, but when I use it, it  it is more of a pragmatic title than one given with any derision or negative connotation) is a bit hit or miss for me. Sometimes I can really love it, and sometimes it just seems cheesy and corny and I find it hard to take seriously, but I can still tell whether it is prog “enough” for PA or not, and whether it is “metal” enough for our team, or needs to be moved elsewhere.

And this really only reiterates what I have already said in other comments on this thread, which is that without the OP defining what is meant by prog metal, the whole thing is fairly meaningless, and a LOT of people who have responded to it have shown it, by what they say they listen to, being a form of prog metal, while what they describe as prog metal when saying what they don’t like, tends to be only a very small percentage of the whole.

Would Paul be a useful and constructive member for the RIO/Avant team? No.
Can I be a useful and constructive member for the Prog Member team? Yes.
The two are nowhere near equivalent, and I’m quite sure you know that.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2022 at 08:45
Originally posted by Archisorcerus Archisorcerus wrote:

^ In order to "evaluate" prog metal credibly, one has to know about Fates Warning's music. I'm even tempted to say "period" here.

I don’t think that is the case at all, but I’m also aware that I’m never going to change your mind on that. In the meantime, it’s of absolutely no consequence. I did listen to a couple of FW albums, and one I realised I must have listened to years ago, as I did vaguely remember it.

But it is entirely possible to have an appreciation of what something is, without knowing inside out everything that led to that point. FW is one stepping point towards one type of prog metal sound. They are routinely included in the so-called “Big Three” of prog metal (by which, again, only one kind of prog metal is meant), and I have long been a fan of the other two. I don’t need to like all three. Just as I don’t need to like all of the “Big Six” or whatever number you choose of the classic prog era (and I have never liked ELP, and have listened to them title more than I have FW).

My strengths are not in the “prog metal” genre of the prog metal team, but they don’t need to be. And FW are not going to be anywhere the influence (if at all) for much of the music that you’ll find in Tech/Extreme and Exp/Post - which are, that’s right, prog metal!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2022 at 08:50
Originally posted by Archisorcerus Archisorcerus wrote:

^ In order to "evaluate" prog metal credibly, one has to know about Fates Warning's music. I'm even tempted to say "period" here.

You are not wrong, but you are not entirely right either (if that makes sense). All members are knowledgeable of the genres. Not knowing FW is not reason enough to lose credibility. 

Credibility here comes in the ability to listen and evaluate suggested bands. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Duddick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2022 at 09:01
Blimey - I’m reminded of the People’s Liberation Front of Judea and the Judean People’s Liberation Front here……
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2022 at 09:04
Originally posted by Duddick Duddick wrote:

Blimey - I’m reminded of the People’s Liberation Front of Judea and the Judean People’s Liberation Front here……

is that a Life of Brian reference? Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2022 at 10:32
Originally posted by Duddick Duddick wrote:

Blimey - I’m reminded of the People’s Liberation Front of Judea and the Judean People’s Liberation Front here……

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2022 at 10:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2022 at 11:03

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hercules Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2022 at 15:39
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Duddick Duddick wrote:

Blimey - I’m reminded of the People’s Liberation Front of Judea and the Judean People’s Liberation Front here……

Splitter! Tongue

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2022 at 00:47
Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Duddick Duddick wrote:

Blimey - I’m reminded of the People’s Liberation Front of Judea and the Judean People’s Liberation Front here……

Splitter! Tongue

I'm the only member of the Popular People's Front of Judea.

LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2022 at 02:41
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^ That makes as much sense as Paul being a member of the RIO/Avant team.

LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2022 at 23:00
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^ That makes as much sense as Paul being a member of the RIO/Avant team.

LOL

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Edited by David_D - May 17 2022 at 23:01
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2022 at 23:22
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^ That makes as much sense as Paul being a member of the RIO/Avant team.

LOL

The Caveman has come to The Iron Age. LOLLOLLOL 

Unfortunately I managed to make it to the Iron Age without paying enough attention to the Bronze Age. Oddly enough, I seem able to exist in the Iron Age comfortably, even without great knowledge of the Bronze Age.

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