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DamoXt7942 
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Joined: October 15 2008 Location: Okayama, Japan Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
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 Posted: January 04 2022 at 15:55 |
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^ Done, thanks.
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projeKct
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Errors & Omissions Team Joined: November 03 2013 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 2907 |
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Posted: February 26 2022 at 06:23 |
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Hi,
Just wondering about this new entry: It appears to be a Digital-only release, but from Spotify and YouTube, not from the band itself or from any label. (But I might be wrong?) The original 2DVD + 3CD version was released in 2008, but we don't know when this digital version was released. And moreover I'm not sure we should list them separately. Here is the original entry: What do you think?
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NotAProghead
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Errors & Omissions Team Joined: October 22 2005 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 7851 |
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Posted: February 26 2022 at 15:27 |
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^ Julien, I think new entry http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=74689 is unnecessary and has to be deleted.
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Prog Network
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Joined: January 03 2022 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 454 |
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Posted: February 26 2022 at 17:27 |
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Thanks to projeKct for updating me on this discussion, I definitely get why you would consider deleting this addition from the archives. However, since the album was released on the band's official Spotify, YouTube, Apple Music, and Amazon Music accounts I would consider it be an addition to the band's live album catalog. When looking at what is considered to be a live album release on ProgArchives, it includes CD, LP, MC, SACD, DVD-A, and Digital Media Download releases. Both Apple Music and Amazon Music have options to obtain a digital media download of the album. Therefore, that would fit the definition set by the website of a live album release since it includes a digital media download of the album. The band Yes released an album in 2021 titled "Live Radio '69 / '70" that seems to have only been released on Spotify. That album is categorized under live albums. Accordingly, I believe Dream Theater's Chaos in Motion 2007-2008 should also be considered a live album.
Amazon Music - https://www.amazon.com/music/player/albums/B001GD1W1Q?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr= https://music.apple.com/us/album/chaos-in-motion-2007-2008-live/290641442 Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/album/1RJPFhFEBkO2paJndLYHTp?si=6ZlGzsS6R3Wm0b5NL9bjGg YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_m6reLi1SxYTgRDRj3IudwyThuFL5P11rU Live Radio '69 / '70 on ProgArchives - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=72398
Edited by Prog Network - February 26 2022 at 17:33 |
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projeKct
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Errors & Omissions Team Joined: November 03 2013 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 2907 |
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Posted: February 26 2022 at 18:09 |
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^ Well, at least we could add some mention like for the Yes entry listed above:
"Stripped down version of Chaos in Motion 2007-2008 2DVD+3CD release" But another problem I have with this case is that maybe there are hundreds of Spotify releases like this (or not? I don't really know)... Does it really add something do include them in the archives? I'm asking the question. What do you think, Eugene?
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Prog Network
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Joined: January 03 2022 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 454 |
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Posted: February 27 2022 at 00:53 |
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Personally, the main differentiating factor between a live album release and video release is that in a video release I tend to be more focused around the quality of the recording and video cinematography while a live album is solely based around the quality of the music. Therefore, I believe adding this release would allow reviewers who just hear the album through a streaming service to accurately display their thoughts on the album while disregarding the video found on the original release. However, two of the more recent Dream Theater live albums might need some reconsidering. Lost Not Forgotten Archives: A Dramatic Tour of Events - Select Board Mixes and Lost Not Forgotten Archives: When Dream and Day Reunite (Live) are both already on ProgArchives under different titles. Lost Not Forgotten Archives: A Dramatic Tour of Events - Select Board Mixes is the same exact album as Happy Holidays and Lost Not Forgotten Archives: When Dream and Day Reunite (Live) is the same exact album as Dream And Day Reunite which was released as an official bootleg in 2004. Possibly a note can be made under the original versions of each album to identify people about these re-releases? Lost Not Forgotten Archives: A Dramatic Tour of Events - Select Board Mixes on ProgArchives - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=72897 Happy Holidays on ProgArchives - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=44283 Lost Not Forgotten Archives: When Dream and Day Reunite (Live) on ProgArchives - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=74125 When Dream And Day Reunite on ProgArchives - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=9646
Edited by Prog Network - February 27 2022 at 00:54 |
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NotAProghead
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Errors & Omissions Team Joined: October 22 2005 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 7851 |
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Posted: February 27 2022 at 15:16 |
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^ To Prog Network:
1. Nobody argues that video-only and audio-only releases belong to different categories. But please look at Release info of this (your) addition, it reads: Tracks recorded at: What non die-hard DT fans like me should think of it? Yes, it looks like a duplication. If you'd pointed out something like: Digital album - Apple Music (2022) 2DVD and 2DVD+3CD versions were published in 2008 there were no questions. Thus please have mercy to our team when adding albums (i.e. fill carefully 2. What digital releases are legitimate? You list in your recent posts links to the albums on Amazon Music, Apple Music, Spotify and YouTube. I guess Amazon and Apple are legal, not sure about Spotify, while YouTube has lots of unauthorised contents. But there is no PA policy about digital platforms and in general it's not always clear is some digital release legal or not.
Edited by NotAProghead - February 27 2022 at 15:19 |
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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projeKct
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Errors & Omissions Team Joined: November 03 2013 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 2907 |
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Posted: February 27 2022 at 15:44 |
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Done. 2021 reissues will be deleted. Notes were added in Releases information for both original entries. Thanks.
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projeKct
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Posted: February 27 2022 at 15:48 |
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Yes, in this case, it's all about releases information. Even though I surrendered  and decided to keep the addition, I hope that future additions can be made with more details as to where and when it was released. I added this note, please confirm that it's OK:Note: This is an audio-only version of the "Chaos in Motion 2007-2008" 2DVD+3CD release, and is available on most streaming platforms. Only two tracks are missing on this release: "Intro / Also Sprach Zarathustra" and "Jordan Rudess Keyboard Solo". And does somebody know when this digital version was released? Pretty sure it was NOT in 2008...
 Edited by projeKct - February 27 2022 at 15:49 |
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NotAProghead
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Errors & Omissions Team Joined: October 22 2005 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 7851 |
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Posted: February 27 2022 at 17:40 |
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Thanks, Julien, I think it's OK. I only prefer if this note would've been added by Prog Network when he added the album.  And yes, digital version is obviously not from 2008.
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Prog Network
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Joined: January 03 2022 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 454 |
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Posted: February 27 2022 at 22:07 |
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After checking the digital release dates on a few streaming services, it seems like this album was released digitally in 2015. Also, I will keep in mind to add more detailed notes whenever I add an album similar to this one. As I am sure you understand, I did not think this addition would cause as much controversy as it did.
 Edited by Prog Network - February 28 2022 at 00:56 |
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NotAProghead
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Posted: February 28 2022 at 02:24 |
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^ Thanks, changed the released date to 2015.
And thanks for understanding.
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Prog Network
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Joined: January 03 2022 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 454 |
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Posted: April 09 2022 at 15:00 |
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Dream Theater's Lost Not Forgotten Archives: Live in NYC - 1993 is a re-release of the New York City 3/4/93. Possibly this re-release can be mentioned in the original album's additional information?
Reissued as part of the Lost Not Forgotten Archives in 2022: 3LP Inside Out Music - IOMLP 619 (March 18, 2022) CD Inside Out Music - IOMLP 619 (March 18, 2022) Digital album (March 18, 2022) Progarchives (Lost Not Forgotten Archives: Live in NYC - 1993) - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=75010 Progarchives (New York City 3/4/93) - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=20999 Discogs - https://www.discogs.com/release/22572629-Dream-Theater-Live-In-NYC-1993
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projeKct
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Posted: April 09 2022 at 17:52 |
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^ Good idea, thanks. An admin will delete the latest addition soon.
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nick_h_nz
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Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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Posted: April 10 2022 at 02:29 |
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At some point PA will have to decide whether it wishes to keep us with the times, regarding digital only releases, and recognise that increasingly bands are deliberately using YouTube as the promotional platform for releases that can only be purchased through platforms like Amazon and Apple. YouTube has changed a lot since being acquired by Google, and there is nowhere near the amount of unauthorised content there once was. Bands can actually get a decent income from YouTube, that while still minimal compared to actual record sales, is better than that from conventional streaming services like Spotify.
More and more bands are not seeking any greater online presence than their YouTube profile. I reviewed an album for a Mexican band last year that is available to listen to only on platforms like YouTube and Spotify, and to purchase only from platforms like Amazon and Apple. They have no website, and barely post on their FB page (which seems to exist more to redirect people to YouTube). I was curious, and enquired if they were considering at least a Bandcamp site, but they said they have no intention of that, as YouTube grants them a far wider audience (in their eyes) than Bandcamp, and they are quite happy with what looks to PA at present as a fairly anonymous release whose presence would no doubt be argued, as the recent DT digital release has been. I think it will become more and more common, especially for live performances, for bands to release digital albums that are designed to be watched on YouTube, and while they might also be available to purchase from platforms like Amazon and Apple, that is almost an afterthought, as a considerable amount of income from the release is probably going to be achieved by the streaming on YouTube. People like to watch live shows, and many like to do so without paying. I know a lot of people who watch full live shows on YouTube. Expect to see more and more releases (or re-releases) on YouTube, like DT’s. I know I own several albums that have no “official” presence, as per PA’s present guidelines, apart from being on Apple and Amazon, promoted via YouTube and Spotify and the like. This is some way away from becoming the new norm, but it is far more prevalent than you might suspect. |
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projeKct
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Posted: April 10 2022 at 06:59 |
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^ Hi Nick,
As far as I know, official digital-only releases are accepted on PA, so I'm not sure why you're posting this?  Maybe you could share some example with us? Also, why posting this in the Duplicated entries thread?
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nick_h_nz
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Posted: April 10 2022 at 07:35 |
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Because of what is deemed official, based on the discussion in this thread, regarding whether or not a release was official.
Because of what is deemed official, based on the discussion in this thread, regarding whether or not a release was official. |
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Cristi
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Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 43470 |
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Posted: April 10 2022 at 07:40 |
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the only rule when adding an album is "no bootlegs", so any other release is therefore accepted.
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projeKct
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Posted: April 10 2022 at 08:02 |
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^ Here are a few examples of digital-only entries on PA :
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Tuzvihar
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Posted: April 28 2022 at 13:52 |
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http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=75137
http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=75136 Duplicate. |
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"Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent."
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projeKct wrote: