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Logan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2022 at 11:10
Well one can expect odd decisions with odd people in positions of power, Nick.. ;) Not that the other admin are odd. They tend to be rather more serious than I generally, methinks. I won’t complain if they are deleted as long as they are preserved in a forum thread for posterity. I might consider doing that myself at some time in fact, depending on how the other admin feel. I’m not on my laptop now so harder to do such stuff on these mobile devices. I have deleted reviews by him before, as have others, and those should be preserved somewhere hopefully. Some were apparently more abusive than others. Some were made a priority to go.

Edited by Logan - March 22 2022 at 11:15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2022 at 11:57
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Yep David. Actually, I read it as mostly pure comedy -- Phil Collins is Pseu Pseu Pseudio comedy -- a kind of performance art, but maybe it is like Tommy Wiseau or Ed Wood, and has that simcerity. I unironically love The Room. Hilariously bad. Funny stuff, meaning weird more than haha, no matter the intent.

But then I also love The Shaggs.

I see them as fun as well…then again perhaps because I remember when it happened. I do understand peeps joining in on PA’s grand dining halls and risky waterslides well after the fact to be somewhat puzzled by such overt tomfoolery…because what the actual feck?!??!

I’m glad I’m not involved in these decisions anymore though. I think I’ve grown too fond of some of the more absurd bits of PA history. You described it better though.
Then again I’m also partial to madness…which is why I loved David the pear’s unorthodox reviews from a good while ago - reviews M@X even had a hard time wrapping his head around.
I do however support whatever decision made by the admin team. I have no bone in this other than good memories.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2022 at 13:14
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Yep David. Actually, I read it as mostly pure comedy -- Phil Collins is Pseu Pseu Pseudio comedy -- a kind of performance art, but maybe it is like Tommy Wiseau or Ed Wood, and has that simcerity. I unironically love The Room. Hilariously bad. Funny stuff, meaning weird more than haha, no matter the intent.

But then I also love The Shaggs.

I see them as fun as well…then again perhaps because I remember when it happened. I do understand peeps joining in on PA’s grand dining halls and risky waterslides well after the fact to be somewhat puzzled by such overt tomfoolery…because what the actual feck?!??!

I’m glad I’m not involved in these decisions anymore though. I think I’ve grown too fond of some of the more absurd bits of PA history. You described it better though.
Then again I’m also partial to madness…which is why I loved David the pear’s unorthodox reviews from a good while ago - reviews M@X even had a hard time wrapping his head around.
I do however support whatever decision made by the admin team. I have no bone in this other than good memories.


Same. It makes me feel quit nostalgic. While I understand that various less seasoned PA users will see those and be "What the fudge?", it could reflect badly on the reviews and site generally and lead to people lowering their own standards thinking such ridiculous stuff passes muster (as those passed being censored, like an f'ing gallstone might not). There are those who will genuinely be bemused by those and it will increase the enjoyment of the experience. The reviews should be diverse, and this is an amateur site despite excellent reviewers such as yourself. I do tend towards freer speech than some, and find a certain comfort in the madness (much like the padded walls in my cell). And we have considered these before, but I would rather err on the side of allowing such things than not.

Anyway, I will bring it up with the dudes some time later. It would sadden me to see us decide to delete that part of PA history now, but at least some of us fondly will remember the good bemusing times and surrounding discussion should they be removed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2022 at 14:18
I actually have no problem with them remaining, per se, as I am far more in favour of free speech than censorship. - and, as I’ve already said, I too find them humorous. But if these are allowed to stay, then I don’t understand why so many (probably most) of the reviews brought up in this thread do not also get the same pass. Unless there is outright derogatory and offensive content, then I don’t really see a problem with most of the reviews brought up for review here. There’s nothing here that is that bad, from the few I read, but it’s still as bad (and sometimes worse) than others that have been removed subsequently. That seems unfair and hypocritical to me, and when the justification is purely nostalgic, I’m just not sure that’s good enough. If these are allowed to stay, then I think far greater latitude should be given to many of the reviews brought up for review here. Which would be my preference anyway, as I think there’s little to nothing wrong with some of the reviews I’ve seen removed after being brought up here. I guess all I’m suggesting is that some consistency would be nice - and the grandfathering in of reviews such as this just because they are an amusing memento of the past is not necessarily anything more than pragmatic and expedient for the sake of nostalgia.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2022 at 15:01
I would have to compare reviews side by side, and of course it does rather depend on who does the deleting. One can’t expect consistency always. I have a fairly clear idea of what I would consider abuse, and it depends if I am swayed by the arguments of people. I do try listen to an consider people’s concerns, be they if they want or don’t want again. Like others, I’m just a volunteer though who does this stuff part time, and I don’t enjoy doing this side of things. Chatting with David was a pleasure, though, so glad I stepped in.   I don’t remember how many I have deleted by the reviewer in question. Hypocritical seems a strong word, inconsistent I would agree with especially as we deal with each on a case by case basis and different people have different perspectives, and I might see things in different ways at different time. I was just sharing my thoughts, and I brought it up with admin to see what they think as I mentioned removing them but saving them at the forum as I though I made it clear that your concerns were valid. I am touch typing on a small device so maybe not doing a decent job.   I had tried to take your concerns to heart. I was casually sharing my feelings, hopefully with some levity, not making some big admin judgment or call. I am but one person who helps out with admin stuff here. If I’m a bit sad about it, we’ll, surely I can feel that way. It doesn’t mean that I won’t take action just because of my nostalgia.   As said, I brought it up with the admin. Thanks for the feedback.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2022 at 15:13
I agree, hypocritical is probably too strong a word. And I in no way mean to criticise you or any other admin. I’m sure you know I would not wish to do that. If anything, I err in the same way as you, when it comes to freedom of speech. I guess I’m playing Devil’s advocate more than anything, attempting to see how it appears from someone outside PA, or someone who uses PA, but pays no attention to the forum (which often, and certainly not just in the case of this particular reviewer, gives additional context to the reviewing styles of some who contribute to the site). I also, despite potential appearances to the contrary, have no strong feelings either way, if the reviews stay or go. I look at their presence, or otherwise, in the same way I do much of what goes on here - just another oddity and quirk. Which, as you already said, is to be expected when the people who do most of the work behind the scenes are odd and quirky, 🤪

Anyone who frequents the forum should probably understand this (and if they don’t, they simply haven’t been paying attention), but not everyone who uses the site, uses the forum, and those that use the forum now, may not know about those who used the forum in the past. So, to an outsider, what looks harmless and humorous, can simply look offensive. Not to you. Not to me, but presumably to the user that brought them up here, and quite probably to anybody from outside PA (and especially outside the PA forum) who might see these reviews.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2022 at 15:21
I'm a big fan of unusual reviews, so in order to preserve them, I made sure every review this user wrote was saved in the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine. About half of them were already backed up there. I saved the rest just minutes ago. 

So, if these get canned, at least their existence has been archived elsewhere. Love the "island" and "mainland" theme going through these.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2022 at 15:28
^ 👏🏻👏🏻
That’s the thing. I love unusual reviews, too. If anything, you could argue they are more “prog” than what most of us write. I have seen a fair few unusual reviews be removed after being brought up in this thread, that I didn’t really see a problem with.

I guess consistency is always going to be a problem, as Greg says, because it depends on who deals with it. In a way this is no different to the way that no matter how objective they try to be, there is always a certain arbitrary degree of subjectivity so that as the team members change over time, so does what is accepted and/or rejected.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote woundedpig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2022 at 06:13
Reviews from this individual are consistently banal, superficial, shallow, sophomoric, like a person with a relatively short experience of actually listening to progressive music. Many have the clear characteristics of a needle dropper.  
Sometimes the reviews are just just plain insulting.  Not every album or group will provide a "surprise" or something totally new. 

The occasional post in which the album is given a high rating has similar characteristics. 

The writer has a distinct penchant for down-rating albums with consistent high average ratings - seemingly a desire to be contrarian for its own sake. 


There are many reviewers whose posts I am guaranteed to read because of their value and influence in making satisfying musical choices over time. There are only a few reviewers whose posts I will pass by every time - this writer now fits in that category.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2022 at 06:19
Originally posted by woundedpig woundedpig wrote:

Reviews from this individual are consistently banal, superficial, shallow, sophomoric, like a person with a relatively short experience of actually listening to progressive music. Many have the clear characteristics of a needle dropper.  
Sometimes the reviews are just just plain insulting.  Not every album or group will provide a "surprise" or something totally new. 

The occasional post in which the album is given a high rating has similar characteristics. 

The writer has a distinct penchant for down-rating albums with consistent high average ratings - seemingly a desire to be contrarian for its own sake. 


There are many reviewers whose posts I am guaranteed to read because of their value and influence in making satisfying musical choices over time. There are only a few reviewers whose posts I will pass by every time - this writer now fits in that category.


This thread is specifically created for reporting inappropriate reviews, your little rant does not help much I'm afraid. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2022 at 06:54
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by woundedpig woundedpig wrote:

Reviews from this individual are consistently banal, superficial, shallow, sophomoric, like a person with a relatively short experience of actually listening to progressive music. Many have the clear characteristics of a needle dropper.  
Sometimes the reviews are just just plain insulting.  Not every album or group will provide a "surprise" or something totally new. 

The occasional post in which the album is given a high rating has similar characteristics. 

The writer has a distinct penchant for down-rating albums with consistent high average ratings - seemingly a desire to be contrarian for its own sake. 


There are many reviewers whose posts I am guaranteed to read because of their value and influence in making satisfying musical choices over time. There are only a few reviewers whose posts I will pass by every time - this writer now fits in that category.


This thread is specifically created for reporting inappropriate reviews, your little rant does not help much I'm afraid. 

But I know exactly who is being ranted about, and I agree entirely. I haven’t reported any of the reviews from this individual, simply because I believe in freedom of speech, and the reviews are so transparent that they are easily ignored. It does appear that several of the reviews are written just because the author wants to express that they don’t understand why something could be rated highly, simply because it’s not to their taste. It’s kind of amusing really, the arrogance and self-interest with which they are written.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2022 at 06:57
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by woundedpig woundedpig wrote:

Reviews from this individual are consistently banal, superficial, shallow, sophomoric, like a person with a relatively short experience of actually listening to progressive music. Many have the clear characteristics of a needle dropper.  
Sometimes the reviews are just just plain insulting.  Not every album or group will provide a "surprise" or something totally new. 

The occasional post in which the album is given a high rating has similar characteristics. 

The writer has a distinct penchant for down-rating albums with consistent high average ratings - seemingly a desire to be contrarian for its own sake. 


There are many reviewers whose posts I am guaranteed to read because of their value and influence in making satisfying musical choices over time. There are only a few reviewers whose posts I will pass by every time - this writer now fits in that category.


This thread is specifically created for reporting inappropriate reviews, your little rant does not help much I'm afraid. 

But I know exactly who is being ranted about, and I agree entirely. I haven’t reported any of the reviews from this individual, simply because I believe in freedom of speech, and the reviews are so transparent that they are easily ignored. It does appear that several of the reviews are written just because the author wants to express that they don’t understand why something could be rated highly, simply because it’s not to their taste. It’s kind of amusing really, the arrogance and self-interest with which they are written.


Any abuse is to be reported here, that's the purpose of the thread. Whether he is right or not in his rant is irrelevant. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2022 at 07:16
Woundedpig WAS reporting abuse, which, as you say, is the purpose of the thread. 🙄

I don’t think it’s abuse, but obviously woundedpig did. The only thing wrong with woundedpig’s post, and I assume it was accidental, is that he forgot to post a link to the reviewer he was reporting abuse from, and/or for one of the reviews. Otherwise, he used the thread for its intended purpose. And while you might call woundedpig’s post a rant, I think it was a pretty solid setting out of why he felt there was abuse, and why he felt the need to report it.

Let’s face it, pretty much any reporting of abuse is going to look like a rant to someone.

So to paraphrase you: Any abuse is to be reported here, that’s the purpose of the thread. Whether you think it is a rant or not is irrelevant.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2022 at 07:29
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Woundedpig WAS reporting abuse, which, as you say, is the purpose of the thread. 🙄

I don’t think it’s abuse, but obviously woundedpig did. The only thing wrong with woundedpig’s post, and I assume it was accidental, is that he forgot to post a link to the reviewer he was reporting abuse from, and/or for one of the reviews. Otherwise, he used the thread for its intended purpose. And while you might call woundedpig’s post a rant, I think it was a pretty solid setting out of why he felt there was abuse, and why he felt the need to report it.

Let’s face it, pretty much any reporting of abuse is going to look like a rant to someone.

So to paraphrase you: Any abuse is to be reported here, that’s the purpose of the thread. Whether you think it is a rant or not is irrelevant.


You misunderstood. 
This is the thread for reporting specific reviews. We post the links and admins will decide whether they are "abuse" and if that's the case, they'll be removed. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2022 at 07:42
No, I understood completely. You only think I misunderstood. It would appear the misunderstanding lies with you.

As I said, the only thing wrong with woundedpig’s post was the omission (accidental, I’m sure) of the links to the specific reviews.

Not that I needed the links personally, because as soon as those reviews started appearing on the front page, I knew it wouldn’t be long before someone reported at least one of them! As soon as I saw that there was a new post in this thread, I knew exactly which reviews were going to be reported. I’m kind of glad woundedpig didn’t put the links, though, as I think they are simply rubbish reviews, rather than abuse. But I guess it depends how someone wants to view abuse, and some people would think reviews such as these do constitute abuse.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2022 at 07:45
^ ok then, let's see those reviews and decide if it's abuse or not. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2022 at 08:17
I'm guessing it refers to some of these: http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=74585
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2022 at 08:33
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I'm guessing it refers to some of these: http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=74585


Hilariously bad :D

For example, for YES 90125 this reviewer gives each track a rating with the lowest being four and the highest being seven yet still gives the album 1 star. Lame? Oh yeah. Abuse? I've seen worse that never got removed.

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2022 at 08:34
^ I disagree with a lot of things he says, but I don't think if it's abuse. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2022 at 08:35
^ Yeah, that was my take, too. I find jus how ridiculous, bad and lame the reviews are amusing, rather than abuse. There has definitely been far worse, and I don’t think these need to be removed.

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