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Joined: December 17 2019
Location: (redacted)
Status: Offline
Points: 4118
Posted: October 17 2021 at 16:47
A few years ago I read an article about a man whose grandson suffered from a severely debilitating form of autism, and who, convinced that the MMR vaccine was to blame for the child's condition, had made it his life mission to denounce the evils of vaccines all around the country. The reporter then interviewed the man's wife, who said that her husband's anti-vaccine activism had actually been very therapeutic and liberating for him, and it's not hard to see why: humans naturally tend to identify patterns even where none exist, and it feels more comforting to think of bad events in your life as having been bestowed upon you by malignant actors against whom you can lash out, rather than as a mere cruel twist of fate with no one to blame.
The worldview of people who are deep in some conspiracy rabbit hole might seem extremely bleak and pessimistic, but in a strange way it's actually quite hopeful too: those people can clearly identify that there is a lot wrong with society, but they see all of it as the result of deliberate actions by a few evil men at the top, and believe that disposing of them will be enough to make society righteous and happy again.
Joined: February 07 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 11612
Posted: October 17 2021 at 18:05
Hopeful, definitely in a strange way. Yeah it made his life more hopeful. And he exercised his freedom to fight for something that he believed in. But, how much damage did his activism hurt those that believed him?
I do understand what you are saying though as people do what they have to do in order to place the blame somewhere. And it sometimes even gets to the point that everything they hear and see ends up supporting what they want to believe. I think what you are saying is that it was still wrong for him to start this activism without really investigating things first, as you said, "identifying patterns even where none exist".
People say it's their right to decide whether to get a vaccine or not. But when does the right to being able to live safely outweigh the rights to individual viewpoints. When do the facts become more important than unverified opinions?
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 36334
Posted: October 17 2021 at 21:02
I'm reminded me of a Doctor Who quote from the 70s (Tom Baker years, episode The Face of Evil).
The Doctor: You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that need altering.
This quote gained some interest with the rise of "alternative facts."
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65317
Posted: October 17 2021 at 21:33
It's gotten to the point where most conspiracy theories have an opposing theory which discredits both, like 'We Have Secret Bases on Mars' vs. 'No One Has Ever Landed Anything on Mars', or, 'China on the Verge of War' vs. 'China on the Verge of Collapse' . It's become quite clear that almost all theories are wrong, misled, and by definition incorrect. Once one realizes this, it's all bullsh*t and one should go back to reading and being educated.
The "Birds Aren't Real" video is very funny, BTW.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
Joined: December 17 2019
Location: (redacted)
Status: Offline
Points: 4118
Posted: October 18 2021 at 03:12
TCat wrote:
I do understand what you are saying though as people do what they have to do in order to place the blame somewhere. And it sometimes even gets to the point that everything they hear and see ends up supporting what they want to believe. I think what you are saying is that it was still wrong for him to start this activism without really investigating things first, as you said, "identifying patterns even where none exist".
Oh yeah, for certain. I don't mean to condone these views or the people who espouse them, I'm merely trying to understand their appeal.
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Sea of Peas
Status: Offline
Points: 51474
Posted: October 18 2021 at 06:24
I sometimes wonder if part of the reason people dive into these rabbit holes is that they are seeking attention and this is the only way they can get it. Admittedly, my knowledge of human psychology is rather weak so I haven't thought that idea through enough.
---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 36334
Posted: October 18 2021 at 06:51
I think loneliness and feelings of alienation are a factor, as well as general insecurity and obsessiveness. People want answers, they want to feel special in their arcane knowledge (they know something others don't-- they see it where others don't). Things feel wrong to people and they want answers. They want to feel secure in having certain knowledge that most do not possess. People look for patterns. And then they look for community with like-minded individuals. This leads to confirmation bias and going deeper and deeper. It could be powerful to feel that something is fundamentally wrong with general understanding, the truth is out there and we have discovered the truth. It's a kind of empowerment -- being special.
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20631
Posted: October 18 2021 at 07:48
Logan wrote:
I think loneliness and feelings of alienation are a factor, as well as general insecurity and obsessiveness. People want answers, they want to feel special in their arcane knowledge (they know something others don't-- they see it where others don't). Things feel wrong to people and they want answers. They want to feel secure in having certain knowledge that most do not possess. People look for patterns. And then they look for community with like-minded individuals. This leads to confirmation bias and going deeper and deeper. It could be powerful to feel that something is fundamentally wrong with general understanding, the truth is out there and we have discovered the truth. It's a kind of empowerment -- being special.
From Firesign skit..........
'Hello there Seeker, now don't feel alone 'cause there's a Seeker born every minute here in the New Age.'
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Joined: February 07 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18446
Posted: October 18 2021 at 08:46
progaardvark wrote:
I sometimes wonder if part of the reason people dive into these rabbit holes is that they are seeking attention and this is the only way they can get it. Admittedly, my knowledge of human psychology is rather weak so I haven't thought that idea through enough.
I've always thought (and this is no joke) that there must be a genetic connection to the thought process. Now, I'll admit, that the argument gets a little shaky once the discussion turns to people who weren't like that but are now. But I still can't separate the concept of biology to the issue.
To be clear...NO ONE is ever going to study such a thing given it's eugenics implications. But it's always in my mind.
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Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
Posted: October 18 2021 at 09:26
Belief in CT's is really just based in an inability, by the individual to accept that, sometimes sh*t just happens. They take comfort in believing that there is an order and structure to what are often random and unconnected events. That reality is even more frightening to some, than the existence of a powerful cabal pulling the strings, because if there is a cabal, it can be potentially exposed and destroyed.
Random events are just that, and therefore beyond control. This can be terrifying for some.
It is important however to differentiate between conspiracy theories, and actual conspiracies. The definition of conspiracy is - more or less - two or more people, meeting in secret to agree and elicit a beneficial outcome to them. That happens every day within every multinational business and every government. It has to. That's how it's done.
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20616
Posted: October 18 2021 at 10:00
I've often found that people that believe in CT are often the very suspicious, bordering on paranoid, types. So, it's not a great stretch for them to see plots where they don't exist. At least that's what I've found in my personal experiences. The whole Q-anon phenomenon was right up their alley.
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Joined: February 24 2020
Location: Davutlar
Status: Offline
Points: 4506
Posted: October 18 2021 at 10:09
Mirakaze wrote:
A few years ago I read an article about a man whose grandson suffered from a severely debilitating form of autism, and who, convinced that the MMR vaccine was to blame for the child's condition, had made it his life mission to denounce the evils of vaccines all around the country. The reporter then interviewed the man's wife, who said that her husband's anti-vaccine activism had actually been very therapeutic and liberating for him, and it's not hard to see why: humans naturally tend to identify patterns even where none exist, and it feels more comforting to think of bad events in your life as having been bestowed upon you by malignant actors against whom you can lash out, rather than as a mere cruel twist of fate with no one to blame.
The worldview of people who are deep in some conspiracy rabbit hole might seem extremely bleak and pessimistic, but in a strange way it's actually quite hopeful too: those people can clearly identify that there is a lot wrong with society, but they see all of it as the result of deliberate actions by a few evil men at the top, and believe that disposing of them will be enough to make society righteous and happy again.
The Greenpeace authorities also believe that if they/we dispose of the owners of companies such as Shell, we will live happily ever after. Same shallowness, if you ask me.
Joined: August 09 2015
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14892
Posted: October 18 2021 at 10:54
Shadowyzard wrote:
The Greenpeace authorities also believe that if they/we dispose of the owners of companies such as Shell, we will live happily ever after. Same shallowness, if you ask me.
Have you ever heard any of them saying that? I'd be surprised.
Joined: June 20 2017
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 4462
Posted: October 18 2021 at 10:56
One of the craziest ones that I heard during the pandemic claimed there was some cosmic convergence of the universe happening in early 2021 & the vaccine was some massive international plot to keep us from communing with the universe ( something like that) Not sure why they didn't want us to commune with the universe , they couldn't explain that part.
Joined: February 24 2020
Location: Davutlar
Status: Offline
Points: 4506
Posted: October 18 2021 at 11:00
Lewian wrote:
Shadowyzard wrote:
The Greenpeace authorities also believe that if they/we dispose of the owners of companies such as Shell, we will live happily ever after. Same shallowness, if you ask me.
Have you ever heard any of them saying that? I'd be surprised.
^ I've read some of their documents, written for idiots. Asking for support for eliminating the evil entities whom I mentioned. Though, honestly, I'm not sure if it is their general policy/way. I was a bit pretentious here, jumped to a conclusion with very limited observation.
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