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Genesis: Hentschel Years
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Poll Question: Which ones do you prefer?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
59 [39.60%]
62 [41.61%]
26 [17.45%]
2 [1.34%]
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Progmind View Drop Down
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1 - W&W Hackett really shine on this album, many great songs, "Blood on The Roofstops", "One For The Vine", "Eleventh Earl of Mar",  "Unquiet slumbers for the sleepers..."/"...In that quiet Earth" and "Afterglow" are masterpieces for me
2 - ATOTT another masterpiece with many great songs, "Dance On A Volcano", "Entangled", "Ripples", "Mad Man Moon" and "Los Endos" are my favs
3 - ATTWT Good transition album, 3,5 stars for me, my favs are "Burning Rope", "The Lady Lies" and "Down and Out". no  more epics, shorter songs but complex in some parts.
4 - DUKE, good POP album and i try to judge for what is it, a good album of pop
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Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by Earl of Mar Earl of Mar wrote:

I voted for W&W because I feel it has 3 or 4 classic genesis tracks. Earl of Mar, Vine, blood and Unquiet/ Earth are superb songs which for me, outshine anything on Trick. However saying that TOTT is a more consistent album,with no real filler but without the real standout tracks of W&W.
ATTWT is a missed opportunity album for me. The band wanted to make shorter songs, which I feel constrains many of what are good songs. Songs like the lady lies sound truncated to me, they need more " space", more instrumentation. Also the album really misses Hackett's guitar. The sound is also bright heralding that 80s sound I hate.
Duke to me is the last Genesis album I still play, it's not a favourite though, idont buy Genesis albums to listen to Collins latest marital problems.
I would also vote for Song for all Seasons as his best work.


Burning Rope apparently started life as a longer, more epic song but Banks cut it down for the album, not wanting comparisons to One for the Vine. I wish they had recording of that full version. I take your point about some tracks feeling truncated. They were done with epics, I guess, but one more wouldn't have hurt, as a farewell to the 70's

As Steve Hackett said they threw the baby out with the bath water. Wink I think of "burning rope" as a mini epic in that it clocks in at over 7 minutes long. "The lady lies" is over 6 minutes long. Both are among my favorites on the album. "Many too many" is a very nice ballad you don't hear enough about and the rest of the songs are good too with some better than others. As for epics of course they did more longer songs later but it seems that on this album they were trying to get more variety and so focused on shorter tracks.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - December 22 2020 at 11:49
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I had to go with Trick of the Tail. Of the four, it's the only one flawless from beginning to end.

Wind and Wuthering might have challenged if "Inside and Out" replaced "Your Own Special Way".

And Then There Were Three has some strong material, but suffers from arcane-ness ("Snowbound"), cuteness ("Scenes from a Night's Dream"), and dullness ("Say It's Alright Joe").

Duke, again, has some very strong material (the "Duke's Travels/Duke's End" section is one of the band's greatest moments ever), but "Heathaze" and "Please Don't Ask" belong on solo albums, not a Genesis album. 
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

I voted for ATTW3 because i find it underrated, even underappreciated I dare say. 

I think Trick is the best out of those, but it's got plenty of votes already. Smile

I've heard it said that ATTW3 was the first neo prog album. I think there's an argument to be made for that actually. 

I've actually heard that said about Trick of the Tail. It was posited that it sort of laid the groundwork. I've decided its PROTO-NEO-PROG. Maybe the prefixes cancel each other out and it's just prog, hehe.
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Points: 18355 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2020 at 11:55
^Snowbound is hardly the only Genesis song with cryptic lyrics though. Anyway, it's apparently about a guy who dies in the snow and children find him the next day to play with him(or something like that). In other words typical happy Phil Collins lyrics. :)

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - December 22 2020 at 11:59
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Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

I voted for ATTW3 because i find it underrated, even underappreciated I dare say. 

I think Trick is the best out of those, but it's got plenty of votes already. Smile

I've heard it said that ATTW3 was the first neo prog album. I think there's an argument to be made for that actually. 

I've actually heard that said about Trick of the Tail. It was posited that it sort of laid the groundwork. I've decided its PROTO-NEO-PROG. Maybe the prefixes cancel each other out and it's just prog, hehe.

Yep, I think it works with both of those albums(although interestingly maybe not W&W so much due to the long songs on it). I don't really hear neo in Starcastle though. Saga maybe but I'm not really familiar enough with them to say for sure.
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

^Snowbound is hardly the only Genesis song with cryptic lyrics though. Anyway, it's apparently about a guy who dies in the snow and children find him the next day to play with him(or something like that). In other words typical happy Phil Collins lyrics. :)

As I understand it, Mike Rutherford wrote the lyrics to "Snowbound".
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Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

^Snowbound is hardly the only Genesis song with cryptic lyrics though. Anyway, it's apparently about a guy who dies in the snow and children find him the next day to play with him(or something like that). In other words typical happy Phil Collins lyrics. :)

As I understand it, Mike Rutherford wrote the lyrics to "Snowbound".

Wikipedia credits it to Mike but it isn't specific about who wrote the lyrics. It could very well be Mike. I suppose maybe all their weird lyrics(ie abacab and mama)were Mike also then( I guess I just always assumed they were Phil's lyrics). Not sure. 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - December 22 2020 at 12:06
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

^Snowbound is hardly the only Genesis song with cryptic lyrics though. Anyway, it's apparently about a guy who dies in the snow and children find him the next day to play with him(or something like that). In other words typical happy Phil Collins lyrics. :)
LOL
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

^Snowbound is hardly the only Genesis song with cryptic lyrics though. Anyway, it's apparently about a guy who dies in the snow and children find him the next day to play with him(or something like that). In other words typical happy Phil Collins lyrics. :)


As I understand it, Mike Rutherford wrote the lyrics to "Snowbound".


Wikipedia credits it to Mike but it isn't specific about who wrote the lyrics. It could very well be Mike. I suppose maybe all their weird lyrics(ie abacab and mama)were Mike also then( I guess I just always assumed they were Phil's lyrics). Not sure. 

Wow, Wikipedia . And you simply must know what they say about assuming. If you're not sure, don't say it in the first place.
"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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Tails
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Keep Calm And Listen To The Music…
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Originally posted by Rednight Rednight wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

^Snowbound is hardly the only Genesis song with cryptic lyrics though. Anyway, it's apparently about a guy who dies in the snow and children find him the next day to play with him(or something like that). In other words typical happy Phil Collins lyrics. :)


As I understand it, Mike Rutherford wrote the lyrics to "Snowbound".


Wikipedia credits it to Mike but it isn't specific about who wrote the lyrics. It could very well be Mike. I suppose maybe all their weird lyrics(ie abacab and mama)were Mike also then( I guess I just always assumed they were Phil's lyrics). Not sure. 

Wow, Wikipedia . And you simply must know what they say about assuming. If you're not sure, don't say it in the first place.
When it comes to prog rock, Wiki is probably right. Only prog nerds that know everything about Genesis are the ones who are going to post something about Genesis.
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I like all four albums, but my favorite out of the four albums is ...and then there were three.
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Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by Earl of Mar Earl of Mar wrote:

I voted for W&W because I feel it has 3 or 4 classic genesis tracks. Earl of Mar, Vine, blood and Unquiet/ Earth are superb songs which for me, outshine anything on Trick. However saying that TOTT is a more consistent album,with no real filler but without the real standout tracks of W&W.
ATTWT is a missed opportunity album for me. The band wanted to make shorter songs, which I feel constrains many of what are good songs. Songs like the lady lies sound truncated to me, they need more " space", more instrumentation. Also the album really misses Hackett's guitar. The sound is also bright heralding that 80s sound I hate.
Duke to me is the last Genesis album I still play, it's not a favourite though, idont buy Genesis albums to listen to Collins latest marital problems.
I would also vote for Song for all Seasons as his best work.


Burning Rope apparently started life as a longer, more epic song but Banks cut it down for the album, not wanting comparisons to One for the Vine. I wish they had recording of that full version. I take your point about some tracks feeling truncated. They were done with epics, I guess, but one more wouldn't have hurt, as a farewell to the 70's


Why was Banks so afraid of drawing comparisons to earlier songs? They never did another 20 min song because they didn't want comparisons to Supper's Ready, even though once or twice they had the ideas to do so, and modified those ideas just to avoid reaching the 20 min, and now also shortening songs just to avoid comparisons to another song, potentially diminishing the greatness of such new ideas
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Exactly the point I was making. The album needed more space. More " Genesis" if you like. It was sacrificed for the new, more concise ( or as it became poppier) version of the band. Hackett left because of a lack of song credits, By Duke we were seeing each band member getting two of their songs on the album, go figure.
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I voted for all of them as I like all of them. The point of this poll eludes me to be honest.

How can you vote for all of them? 

because you can apparently

Trick and ATTW3 are both five star albums for me
W&W is a real mess but still 4 stars for all its quirkyness. Very much the only album of this era that was truly 'symphonic' but you can almost sense the band arguing with itself.
Duke is prog lite but very enjoyable if you want something less 'heavy' to listen to. Collins peaked as a drummer on this album so that is something I particularly latch onto. Overall 3 stars but the 'Duke Suite' is one of the best things they ever did.
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Trick and Wind are both great albums, saw Steve Hackett playing the entire W & W live a few years ago....brilliant!!
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I voted for all of them as I like all of them. The point of this poll eludes me to be honest.


How can you vote for all of them? 


because you can apparently

Trick and ATTW3 are both five star albums for me
W&W is a real mess but still 4 stars for all its quirkyness. Very much the only album of this era that was truly 'symphonic' but you can almost sense the band arguing with itself.
Duke is prog lite but very enjoyable if you want something less 'heavy' to listen to. Collins peaked as a drummer on this album so that is something I particularly latch onto. Overall 3 stars but the 'Duke Suite' is one of the best things they ever did.
An interesting, wry summation of things, but you couldn't convince me that "ATTW3" is a five star album to save your life.
"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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I voted twice; once for Trick of the Tail and once for Wind & Wuthering.
A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
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Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - December 31 2020 at 19:13
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