Genesis: Hentschel Years
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=124898
Printed Date: December 04 2024 at 12:17
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Topic: Genesis: Hentschel Years
Posted By: Heart of the Matter
Subject: Genesis: Hentschel Years
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 07:00
Vote your preferences (and express your opinion) on this period caught between Gabriel- and Pop-Era! 
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Replies:
Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 07:04
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Tail for me, at least at the moment. ATTW3 and W&W are also really good. This is my fave Genesis era. ------------- “On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.” — Ernest Vong |
Posted By: VianaProghead
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 08:30
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I'm not sure about that. I love both, A Trick of the Tail and Wind & Wuthering. But, I decided to be with Hackett. So, it must be Wind & Wuthering.
------------- "PROG IS MY FERRARI". Jem Godfrey (Frost*) |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 08:40
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David Henschel? Genius! As a recording engineer myself And Then There Were Three is the bomb! Multiple use of pleated automatic double tracking on Collins' vocals, great use of mechanical reverb, old fashioned veri-speed tape manipulation on "Deep In The Motherlode", and a dense sound mix all adding up to a tasty wall of sound.
Love it! ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 08:44
| I like Trick and Wind quite the same, too bad Steve let after, leaving the band to go more pop oriented. At the end, I voted for Wind. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 08:47
| A Song for all Seasons |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 08:50
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kenethlevine wrote:Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 08:55
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Ok, I'll say this about ASFAS: Perfect, perfect sound mix and EQing! ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 09:07
NOT going overboard on ASFAS would have been a travesty 
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 09:12
I would have voted for A Song for All Seasons too, but in this poll, I'm voting for A Trick of the Tail, mainly because it includes Ripples, although I prefer Annie Haslam's version. 
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 09:13
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@KenLevine: Agreed! The album deserved the 5 star treatment!
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 09:13
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Trick just over Wind. ------------- Welcome to the middle of the film. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 09:15
| \oh this is about Genesis? OK, for me it's Trick for sure |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 09:41
| like Trick and Wind just about the same but voted Trick as Wind is sort of ruined by Your own special way--but maybe Wind is slightly better produced. |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 10:21
Your Own Special Way is the main reason I bought the Wind & Wuthering album. I like the song in my own special way.
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Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 11:01
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W&W is one of my favorite Genesis albums, so it gets my vote. I like the other three quite a lot, but I can get burnt out on them. This never happens with W&W. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 11:06
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Yep, a good pop song in a prog album is fine. It's a toss up between Trick and W&W but I go with the last one. Was always underwhelmed by attw3 and find Duke very dull (was quite happy they spiced things up with Abacab!). ------------- The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
Posted By: Mirakaze
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 11:32
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I love all of these very much but ATotT is the most consistently amazing in my opinion. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 11:46
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From Trick, Dance is a great track, but the rest of the lp is too tame for me....but then many tame songs on Wind also...but 11th Earl, Vine, and Blood on Wind are far more interesting to me than the other songs on Trick so Wind it is. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 13:50
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ATOTT ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 14:03
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Toss up between Trick and Wind. My vote went to Wind to even it out. I have no use for the other two. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 15:05
how disappointing--we usually agree on so many things
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Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 15:11
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I'd rather speak of Hackett Era and Pop Era. W&W just over ATotT, but I gave both a vote because there is a gap between these two and ATTWT/Duke. ------------- 
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Posted By: Heart of the Matter
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 15:28
Go far enough and you will reach, A place where the sea runs underneath |
Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 23:00
You know a sound engineer is good when the recording is better than the material it's based on. That's not the case with ATOTT and W&W, both superb albums of original source material.
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Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: December 21 2020 at 23:50
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Trick, Duke, Wind, Three. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 01:26
| I voted for all of them as I like all of them. The point of this poll eludes me to be honest. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 01:39
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Trick is my overall favourite Genesis album. The 'Hentschel era' was in some ways their best IMO. As much as I love the Gabriel era, and the Lamb or Foxtrot would probably rank 2nd in my overall faves, Trick to Duke was when the band were at their most powerful and confident live. They had matured as musicians, and when they reworked the old Gabriel songs lve, they were invariably better than the orginals. Trick is a glorious return to form following Gabriel's departure; powerful and melodic songs, with a wonderful storybook feel. 5 stars W&W is epic and well ahead of it's time in terms of production, with just a few low points (YOSW & WG) 5 stars ATTWT - is an excellent collection of concise but nevertheless progressive songs, again with a few relative lows, but overall excellent heartfelt melodic offerings. I have a special connection to this album as it was the first I heard. 4 stars Duke is arguably the weakest of the 4 albums, although still with some magnificent highs. 4 stars. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: tdfloyd
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 02:43
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ATOTT is my fav Genesis album, period. And this is the period of Genesis that I return to the most because it is mostly driven by Banks. Btw, also a big fan of the PG era, except at times the words got in the way. W&W is also stunning. ATTW3 is my intro to Genesis and I've never been able to figure out all of the hate for this album. They had a hit song, something that they swung at and missed several times in the past. I guess thatmakes Duke the weakest of the 4 albums, but if that is the weakest, I'll take it anytime.
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Posted By: thief
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 03:08
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I see FatherChristmas has already voted  Can't see myself voting for anything other than A Trick of the Tail. It's just too solid to pass. ------------- TOP20 Songs https://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=124211" rel="nofollow - Genesis https://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=125999" rel="nofollow - Rush |
Posted By: A Crimson Mellotron
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 04:51
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A Trick of the Tail all the way! |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 06:22
| A trick of the tail is my favorite Genesis album period. A long time ago it was SEBTP but opinions can and do change over time. For me "trick" is their strongest album from start to finish. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 06:25
How can you vote for all of them?
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 06:26
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I voted for ATTW3 because i find it underrated, even underappreciated I dare say. I think Trick is the best out of those, but it's got plenty of votes already.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 06:33
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 06:45
I've heard it said that ATTW3 was the first neo prog album. I think there's an argument to be made for that actually.
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 06:48
neo-prog meant a new wave of bands, most influenced by Genesis. So I disagree ATTW3 is the first neo-prog album.
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 07:18
I agree it's under appreciated. I prefer it to some of the Gabriel era albums, notably Trespass and Nursery Cryme. It's a brilliant collection of songs, with a few weak tracks here and there, which are more than made up for by Down & Out, Undertow, Burning Rope & The Lady Lies. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Earl of Mar
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 07:37
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I voted for W&W because I feel it has 3 or 4 classic genesis tracks. Earl of Mar, Vine, blood and Unquiet/ Earth are superb songs which for me, outshine anything on Trick. However saying that TOTT is a more consistent album,with no real filler but without the real standout tracks of W&W. ATTWT is a missed opportunity album for me. The band wanted to make shorter songs, which I feel constrains many of what are good songs. Songs like the lady lies sound truncated to me, they need more " space", more instrumentation. Also the album really misses Hackett's guitar. The sound is also bright heralding that 80s sound I hate. Duke to me is the last Genesis album I still play, it's not a favourite though, idont buy Genesis albums to listen to Collins latest marital problems. I would also vote for Song for all Seasons as his best work. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 08:34
Burning Rope apparently started life as a longer, more epic song but Banks cut it down for the album, not wanting comparisons to One for the Vine. I wish they had recording of that full version. I take your point about some tracks feeling truncated. They were done with epics, I guess, but one more wouldn't have hurt, as a farewell to the 70's  ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Progmind
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 10:59
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1 - W&W Hackett really shine on this album, many great songs, "Blood on The Roofstops", "One For The Vine", "Eleventh Earl of Mar", "Unquiet slumbers for the sleepers..."/"...In that quiet Earth" and "Afterglow" are masterpieces for me 2 - ATOTT another masterpiece with many great songs, "Dance On A Volcano", "Entangled", "Ripples", "Mad Man Moon" and "Los Endos" are my favs 3 - ATTWT Good transition album, 3,5 stars for me, my favs are "Burning Rope", "The Lady Lies" and "Down and Out". no more epics, shorter songs but complex in some parts. 4 - DUKE, good POP album and i try to judge for what is it, a good album of pop
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 11:25
As Steve Hackett said they threw the baby out with the bath water.
I think of "burning rope" as a mini epic in that it clocks in at over 7 minutes long. "The lady lies" is over 6 minutes long. Both are among my favorites on the album. "Many too many" is a very nice ballad you don't hear enough about and the rest of the songs are good too with some better than others. As for epics of course they did more longer songs later but it seems that on this album they were trying to get more variety and so focused on shorter tracks. |
Posted By: Steve Wyzard
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 11:48
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I had to go with Trick of the Tail. Of the four, it's the only one flawless from beginning to end. Wind and Wuthering might have challenged if "Inside and Out" replaced "Your Own Special Way". And Then There Were Three has some strong material, but suffers from arcane-ness ("Snowbound"), cuteness ("Scenes from a Night's Dream"), and dullness ("Say It's Alright Joe"). Duke, again, has some very strong material (the "Duke's Travels/Duke's End" section is one of the band's greatest moments ever), but "Heathaze" and "Please Don't Ask" belong on solo albums, not a Genesis album.
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Posted By: Awesoreno
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 11:49
I've actually heard that said about Trick of the Tail. It was posited that it sort of laid the groundwork. I've decided its PROTO-NEO-PROG. Maybe the prefixes cancel each other out and it's just prog, hehe.
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 11:55
| ^Snowbound is hardly the only Genesis song with cryptic lyrics though. Anyway, it's apparently about a guy who dies in the snow and children find him the next day to play with him(or something like that). In other words typical happy Phil Collins lyrics. :) |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 11:58
Yep, I think it works with both of those albums(although interestingly maybe not W&W so much due to the long songs on it). I don't really hear neo in Starcastle though. Saga maybe but I'm not really familiar enough with them to say for sure.
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Posted By: Steve Wyzard
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 12:01
As I understand it, Mike Rutherford wrote the lyrics to "Snowbound".
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 12:05
Wikipedia credits it to Mike but it isn't specific about who wrote the lyrics. It could very well be Mike. I suppose maybe all their weird lyrics(ie abacab and mama)were Mike also then( I guess I just always assumed they were Phil's lyrics). Not sure.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 12:06
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Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 12:22
. And you simply must know what they say about assuming. If you're not sure, don't say it in the first place. ------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: geekfreak
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 12:24
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Tails ------------- Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake." Music Is Live Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… < |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 12:32
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Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 12:43
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I like all four albums, but my favorite out of the four albums is ...and then there were three. ------------- http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/" rel="nofollow - Metal Music Archives https://rateyourmusic.com/~UMUR" rel="nofollow - UMUR on RYM |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 12:58
Why was Banks so afraid of drawing comparisons to earlier songs? They never did another 20 min song because they didn't want comparisons to Supper's Ready, even though once or twice they had the ideas to do so, and modified those ideas just to avoid reaching the 20 min, and now also shortening songs just to avoid comparisons to another song, potentially diminishing the greatness of such new ideas 
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Posted By: Earl of Mar
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 15:08
| Exactly the point I was making. The album needed more space. More " Genesis" if you like. It was sacrificed for the new, more concise ( or as it became poppier) version of the band. Hackett left because of a lack of song credits, By Duke we were seeing each band member getting two of their songs on the album, go figure. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: December 23 2020 at 00:53
because you can apparently Trick and ATTW3 are both five star albums for me W&W is a real mess but still 4 stars for all its quirkyness. Very much the only album of this era that was truly 'symphonic' but you can almost sense the band arguing with itself. Duke is prog lite but very enjoyable if you want something less 'heavy' to listen to. Collins peaked as a drummer on this album so that is something I particularly latch onto. Overall 3 stars but the 'Duke Suite' is one of the best things they ever did.
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Posted By: Ronstein
Date Posted: December 23 2020 at 07:25
| Trick and Wind are both great albums, saw Steve Hackett playing the entire W & W live a few years ago....brilliant!! |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: December 23 2020 at 08:04
------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: December 31 2020 at 14:09
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I voted twice; once for Trick of the Tail and once for Wind & Wuthering. ------------- A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now) |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 31 2020 at 15:06
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... |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 31 2020 at 15:08
That sounds like a plan. I think the person who set it up forgot to make it so you just have one option.
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Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: December 31 2020 at 16:46
------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 02 2021 at 21:08
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And Then There Were Forty-three. (Votes). ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: tdfloyd
Date Posted: January 04 2021 at 01:24
| I would vote for these albums by release year with ATOTT being my fav Genesis studio album |
Posted By: Heart of the Matter
Date Posted: January 04 2021 at 15:11
I intended to give each person the possibility of express preference for more than just one album, because it seemed plausible to me that one liked as much Trick as Wind, for example. If that person was forced to choose just one of them, the poll wouldn't be reflecting accurately the preferences for each particular album, I think. |