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Irreplaceable Instruments in a Band?

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MortSahlFan View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 21 2020 at 09:30
I consider vocals an instrument, and would say it would be #1. I know some bands try to find a sing-a-like, but its so rare that the new guy is better.

I would say the next one is the drums. Rhythm is so important, and very hard to duplicate. Even a lead guitarist can mimic things note for note.

I would say bass is the easiest to replace.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argo2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2020 at 09:59
Kind of depends on the band. In some situations keyboard players can cover the bass parts ( It's still better to have a real bass player) If it's an acoustic project you may be able to live with out drums. Obviously if it's all instrumental music you don't need a signer and so on...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TCat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2020 at 10:04
Specialized instruments for certain bands can be irreplaceable.  For example, the signature violin sound from Robby Steinhardt of Kansas (yes I know they replaced Robby with David Ragsdale, but it just wasn't the same and it was apparent in their loss of popularity) or (even more so) the trademark sound of Ian Anderson's flute in Jethro Tull.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2020 at 10:04
Not many drums or bass in classical music. But take Yes as an example. Can't replace Jon, Bill, or Chris. They have tried. Not the same for me.

And you could never replace Peart in Rush, and they have the sense not to try
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Anders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2020 at 13:51
No instrument is irreplaceable - it will just turn the music into something else which is not necessarily a bad thing. People often consider the electric guitar the defining rock instrument, but I know rock bands with no guitar...

Also, sometimes the lack of crucial instruments can force the musicians to think more creatively, and thus to make more original music. Here is a band from Kinshasa which I discovered some time ago. They couldn't afford any instruments, so they decided to build some themselves of things they found on the street:


Edited by The Anders - April 21 2020 at 13:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2020 at 14:36
Bassoon & Cello obviously.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Man With Hat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2020 at 14:45
Originally posted by TCat TCat wrote:

Specialized instruments for certain bands can be irreplaceable.  For example, the signature violin sound from Robby Steinhardt of Kansas (yes I know they replaced Robby with David Ragsdale, but it just wasn't the same and it was apparent in their loss of popularity) or (even more so) the trademark sound of Ian Anderson's flute in Jethro Tull.
 

Yeah, this would be as close as I'm willing to come to irreplaceable. Even in the case of folk music, you can still play those melodies and such on more universal instruments. 

Really no instrument is irreplaceable.  Music can be made with any combination of instruments.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MortSahlFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2020 at 15:29
I mean the people behind the instrument. If you hit a middle C on a piano, it will sound the same if you get 5 piano players.. Guitarists can bend, etc... With drums, its how you hit it, where on the drum you hit it, as well as time, etc etc.. But its hard to replace a vocal.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2020 at 16:32
Originally posted by MortSahlFan MortSahlFan wrote:

If you hit a middle C on a piano, it will sound the same if you get 5 piano players.


I don't agree with this, certainly when taken at the level of playing a phrase or more rather than hitting a single note. The speed and force with which the player strikes the keys, the duration of his holding down and releasing them, the use of pedals, etc can give individual players a very distinctive sound IMO. This is perhaps not easily discernible most of the time in a rock band context, but if you listen to solo or trio recordings of some of the great jazz players (e.g. Art Tatum, Bud Powell, Thelonious Monk, Bill Evans, Cecil Taylor) it's easy to hear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2020 at 16:43
1 is most irreplaceable to me.

1. Vocals
2. Guitar
3. Bass
4. Drums
5. Keys
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2020 at 08:28
Originally posted by Argo2112 Argo2112 wrote:

In some situations keyboard players can cover the bass parts
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2020 at 08:49
Originally posted by The Anders The Anders wrote:

No instrument is irreplaceable - it will just turn the music into
something else which is not necessarily a bad thing. People often consider the
electric guitar the defining rock instrument, but I know rock bands
with no guitar...

Also, sometimes the lack
of crucial instruments can force the musicians to think more
creatively, and thus to make more original music. Here is a band from
Kinshasa which I discovered some time ago. They couldn't afford any
instruments, so they decided to build some themselves of things they
found on the street:



Nice one
Also sums up my thoughts on the matter.
Another fine example is Arthur Brown’s Kingdom Come and their wonderful Journey. An album where the drummer decided to replace himself with one of those oldschool drumming machines (y’know Ole Erling style), which really when you think about it seems like a downright horrendous idea. Psychedelic hard rock with a quirky jittery and impossibly fake sounding tju-tju of machined beats...but man does it ever work!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MortSahlFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2020 at 08:58
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by MortSahlFan MortSahlFan wrote:

If you hit a middle C on a piano, it will sound the same if you get 5 piano players.


I don't agree with this, certainly when taken at the level of playing a phrase or more rather than hitting a single note. The speed and force with which the player strikes the keys, the duration of his holding down and releasing them, the use of pedals, etc can give individual players a very distinctive sound IMO. This is perhaps not easily discernible most of the time in a rock band context, but if you listen to solo or trio recordings of some of the great jazz players (e.g. Art Tatum, Bud Powell, Thelonious Monk, Bill Evans, Cecil Taylor) it's easy to hear.


I'm talking context. If you take 5 drummers to do the same thing, it would probably vary. Vocals, even more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Anders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2020 at 09:03
Originally posted by Argo2112 Argo2112 wrote:

In some situations keyboard players can cover the bass parts ( It's still better to have a real bass player)


In case of the Doors, the lack of a bass player is a key element of their sound - at least live - but then, they often used a session musician on bass on their studio recordings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TCat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2020 at 09:05
As far as keys, there are certain techniques that do make some keyboardists quite distinctive.  Take Keith Emerson for example, I mean without Emerson, ELP would have not even existed because he was non replaceable, except for maybe most of the time from Love Beach onward). 
Rick Wakeman is irreplaceable.  Who has ever sounded like him?  You can definitely tell when Wakeman is with Yes and when he isn't. 
 
Sure anyone can play middle C on the piano and it will sound the same.  That is exactly like saying strum a G Chord on the guitar and it will sound the same no matter who it is.  It's all about the technique and the talent, the use of dynamics, the expression and so on.  It's all about what goes on around the C note that makes a difference.  Also, not just anyone can improvise on the keyboards, the same as not just anyone can improvise on a guitar, bass, drums, voice or anything else. 
 
In the end, though, no instrument is irreplaceable.  But it is a lot more difficult to replace some artists and get the same sound.
 
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Anders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2020 at 09:10
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Another fine example is Arthur Brown’s Kingdom Come and their wonderful Journey. An album where the drummer decided to replace himself with one of those oldschool drumming machines (y’know Ole Erling style), which really when you think about it seems like a downright horrendous idea. Psychedelic hard rock with a quirky jittery and impossibly fake sounding tju-tju of machined beats...but man does it ever work!


I am listening to the album now. It almost seems a bit comic, but it kind of works in its own quirky way. Interesting listening experience in any case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tapfret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2020 at 09:16
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

1 is most irreplaceable to me.

1. Vocals
2. Guitar
3. Bass
4. Drums
5. Keys


I can't even count the number of times I've said "this band would be great if that vocalist would go away". Additionally, I can only think of a handful of acts where I thought the vocals were crucial. A capella groups obviously.

Basically I'm in the nothing is irreplaceable camp.

Except bagpipes, accordions and steel drums.



Edited by Tapfret - April 22 2020 at 09:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2020 at 09:18
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:


Basically I'm in the nothing is irreplaceable camp.

Except bagpipes, accordions and steel drums.
Now I want to hear a band that just consists of bagpipes, accordion and steel drums. The Irreplaceables!  Should be good panhead material I'd have thought.

Edited by Mascodagama - April 22 2020 at 09:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2020 at 09:44
most of the time it's people that are irreplaceable not the instruments themselves, if that makes sense... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2020 at 10:09
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

most of the time it's people that are irreplaceable not the instruments themselves, if that makes sense... 


That makes perfect sense to me.
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