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Forum Name: General Music Discussions
Forum Description: Discuss and create polls about all types of music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=122791 Printed Date: March 12 2025 at 17:53 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Irreplaceable Instruments in a Band?Posted By: MortSahlFan
Subject: Irreplaceable Instruments in a Band?
Date Posted: April 21 2020 at 09:30
I consider vocals an instrument, and would say it would be #1. I know
some bands try to find a sing-a-like, but its so rare that the new guy
is better.
I would say the next one is the drums. Rhythm is so important, and very
hard to duplicate. Even a lead guitarist can mimic things note for note.
Replies: Posted By: Argo2112
Date Posted: April 21 2020 at 09:59
Kind of depends on the band. In some situations keyboard players can cover the bass parts ( It's still better to have a real bass player) If it's an acoustic project you may be able to live with out drums. Obviously if it's all instrumental music you don't need a signer and so on...
Posted By: TCat
Date Posted: April 21 2020 at 10:04
Specialized instruments for certain bands can be irreplaceable. For example, the signature violin sound from Robby Steinhardt of Kansas (yes I know they replaced Robby with David Ragsdale, but it just wasn't the same and it was apparent in their loss of popularity) or (even more so) the trademark sound of Ian Anderson's flute in Jethro Tull.
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: April 21 2020 at 10:04
Not many drums or bass in classical music. But take Yes as an example. Can't replace Jon, Bill, or Chris. They have tried. Not the same for me.
And you could never replace Peart in Rush, and they have the sense not to try
Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: April 21 2020 at 13:51
No instrument is irreplaceable - it will just turn the music into
something else which is not necessarily a bad thing. People often consider the
electric guitar the defining rock instrument, but I know rock bands
with no guitar...
Also, sometimes the lack
of crucial instruments can force the musicians to think more
creatively, and thus to make more original music. Here is a band from
Kinshasa which I discovered some time ago. They couldn't afford any
instruments, so they decided to build some themselves of things they
found on the street:
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: April 21 2020 at 14:36
Bassoon & Cello obviously.
------------- Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: April 21 2020 at 14:45
TCat wrote:
Specialized instruments for certain bands can be irreplaceable. For example, the signature violin sound from Robby Steinhardt of Kansas (yes I know they replaced Robby with David Ragsdale, but it just wasn't the same and it was apparent in their loss of popularity) or (even more so) the trademark sound of Ian Anderson's flute in Jethro Tull.
Yeah, this would be as close as I'm willing to come to irreplaceable. Even in the case of folk music, you can still play those melodies and such on more universal instruments.
Really no instrument is irreplaceable. Music can be made with any combination of instruments.
------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: April 21 2020 at 15:29
I mean the people behind the instrument. If you hit a middle C on a piano, it will sound the same if you get 5 piano players.. Guitarists can bend, etc... With drums, its how you hit it, where on the drum you hit it, as well as time, etc etc.. But its hard to replace a vocal.
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: April 21 2020 at 16:32
MortSahlFan wrote:
If you hit a middle C on a piano, it will sound the same if you get 5 piano players.
I don't agree with this, certainly when taken at the level of playing a phrase or more rather than hitting a single note. The speed and force with which the player strikes the keys, the duration of his holding down and releasing them, the use of pedals, etc can give individual players a very distinctive sound IMO. This is perhaps not easily discernible most of the time in a rock band context, but if you listen to solo or trio recordings of some of the great jazz players (e.g. Art Tatum, Bud Powell, Thelonious Monk, Bill Evans, Cecil Taylor) it's easy to hear.
------------- Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to. http://bandcamp.com/jpillbox" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Profile
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: April 21 2020 at 16:43
1 is most irreplaceable to me.
1. Vocals 2. Guitar 3. Bass 4. Drums 5. Keys
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: April 22 2020 at 08:28
Argo2112 wrote:
In some situations keyboard players can cover the bass parts
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: April 22 2020 at 08:49
The Anders wrote:
No instrument is irreplaceable - it will just turn the music into something else which is not necessarily a bad thing. People often consider the electric guitar the defining rock instrument, but I know rock bands with no guitar...
Also, sometimes the lack of crucial instruments can force the musicians to think more creatively, and thus to make more original music. Here is a band from Kinshasa which I discovered some time ago. They couldn't afford any instruments, so they decided to build some themselves of things they found on the street:
Nice one Also sums up my thoughts on the matter. Another fine example is Arthur Brown’s Kingdom Come and their wonderful Journey. An album where the drummer decided to replace himself with one of those oldschool drumming machines (y’know Ole Erling style), which really when you think about it seems like a downright horrendous idea. Psychedelic hard rock with a quirky jittery and impossibly fake sounding tju-tju of machined beats...but man does it ever work!
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: April 22 2020 at 08:58
Mascodagama wrote:
MortSahlFan wrote:
If you hit a middle C on a piano, it will sound the same if you get 5 piano players.
I don't agree with this, certainly when taken at the level of playing a phrase or more rather than hitting a single note. The speed and force with which the player strikes the keys, the duration of his holding down and releasing them, the use of pedals, etc can give individual players a very distinctive sound IMO. This is perhaps not easily discernible most of the time in a rock band context, but if you listen to solo or trio recordings of some of the great jazz players (e.g. Art Tatum, Bud Powell, Thelonious Monk, Bill Evans, Cecil Taylor) it's easy to hear.
I'm talking context. If you take 5 drummers to do the same thing, it would probably vary. Vocals, even more.
Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: April 22 2020 at 09:03
Argo2112 wrote:
In some situations keyboard players can cover the bass parts ( It's still better to have a real bass player)
In case of the Doors, the lack of a bass player is a key element of their sound - at least live - but then, they often used a session musician on bass on their studio recordings.
Posted By: TCat
Date Posted: April 22 2020 at 09:05
As far as keys, there are certain techniques that do make some keyboardists quite distinctive. Take Keith Emerson for example, I mean without Emerson, ELP would have not even existed because he was non replaceable, except for maybe most of the time from Love Beach onward). Rick Wakeman is irreplaceable. Who has ever sounded like him? You can definitely tell when Wakeman is with Yes and when he isn't.
Sure anyone can play middle C on the piano and it will sound the same. That is exactly like saying strum a G Chord on the guitar and it will sound the same no matter who it is. It's all about the technique and the talent, the use of dynamics, the expression and so on. It's all about what goes on around the C note that makes a difference. Also, not just anyone can improvise on the keyboards, the same as not just anyone can improvise on a guitar, bass, drums, voice or anything else.
In the end, though, no instrument is irreplaceable. But it is a lot more difficult to replace some artists and get the same sound.
Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: April 22 2020 at 09:10
Guldbamsen wrote:
Another fine example is Arthur Brown’s Kingdom Come and their wonderful Journey. An album where the drummer decided to replace himself with one of those oldschool drumming machines (y’know Ole Erling style), which really when you think about it seems like a downright horrendous idea. Psychedelic hard rock with a quirky jittery and impossibly fake sounding tju-tju of machined beats...but man does it ever work!
I am listening to the album now. It almost seems a bit comic, but it kind of works in its own quirky way. Interesting listening experience in any case.
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: April 22 2020 at 09:16
Grumpyprogfan wrote:
1 is most irreplaceable to me.
1. Vocals 2. Guitar 3. Bass 4. Drums 5. Keys
I can't even count the number of times I've said "this band would be great if that vocalist would go away". Additionally, I can only think of a handful of acts where I thought the vocals were crucial. A capella groups obviously.
Basically I'm in the nothing is irreplaceable camp.
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: April 22 2020 at 09:18
Tapfret wrote:
Basically I'm in the nothing is irreplaceable camp.
Except bagpipes, accordions and steel drums.
Now I want to hear a band that just consists of bagpipes, accordion and steel drums. The Irreplaceables! Should be good panhead material I'd have thought.
------------- Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to. http://bandcamp.com/jpillbox" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Profile
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: April 22 2020 at 09:44
most of the time it's people that are irreplaceable not the instruments themselves, if that makes sense...
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 22 2020 at 10:09
Cristi wrote:
most of the time it's people that are irreplaceable not the instruments themselves, if that makes sense...
That makes perfect sense to me.
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: April 22 2020 at 10:10
There is always John Cage's 4'33" (true there are instruments present during the performance, but the performers are instructed to not play). I suppose one could argue that the environment is the instrument.
Recently, ni's Pantophobie has two tracks, a short intro (Phonophobie) and outro (Apéirophobie), that are just silence. This is on the CD version.
So, who needs instruments?
------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 07:50
progaardvark wrote:
There is always John Cage's 4'33" (true there are instruments present during the performance, but the performers are instructed to not play). I suppose one could argue that the environment is the instrument.
Definitely, I believe that was his intent, I would also postulate that the brain becomes one of the instruments as well.
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