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Rednight View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rednight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 12:28
Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Another example of what I mean is Red, imo the best KC album, but also if I'm not mistaken (and I might well be ;) ) the shortest KC studio album of the 70s, just a few seconds under 40 minutes.
Here, here!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 13:04
Goblin – Roller {34:14}

Iconic in my book!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 13:14
Tangerine Dream's epic, if unofficial, mid-'70s trilogy; the next album is shorter than the previous one. Every one of these albums rightly enjoys classic status with TD fans.

Phaedra (1974) – 36:14
Rubycon (1975) – 34:53
Stratosfear (1976) – 34:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cosmiclawnmower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 13:23
Todd Rundgren was well known for trying to fit as much music on to two sides of vinyl as he could; most famously for the 'Initiation' album which (according to the sleeve notes) has over an hour over two sides. It doesn't state track lengths on the label or cover and ive never 'timed' it personally.. it does suffer from (A) very low volume and (B) a very thin reedy sound. It also states on the record sleeve that if your stylus is even slightly worn you will ruin the lp immediately! Ive noticed that quite a few of Todd's 70s lps suffer from this and wonder if it was rectified in later CD production? Todd's advice at the time was to record the lp onto a cassette, setting the levels higher, and play that! Not sure that was one of Todd's smartest moves.. 
As an almost (but not exclusively) totally vinyl listener, I find that many modern lps are released on doubles with very short sides (12-15 mins) and sometimes a blank side with some lazer etching.. and that 'filler' is just as evident as it was in the 70s and 80's. Back then a few extra tracks were often recorded either to release as (horror of horrors) 'B' sides of singles or for a companion EP.. these are now just bonus tracks on CD re-issues.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote judahbenkenobi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 13:36
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

This thread has taken an interesting turn, but I realise I haven't explained myself properly. So let me do it by way of comparison
Yes - Fragile - about 41 mins
Yet their iconic CTTE only about 37.
Same as DP Machine Head, short in comparison to albums close to it by release.
Neil Young's iconic Harvest 37 mins but On The Beach almost 40 mins.
My point was that it seems that so many iconic albums were shorter than albums of the same period by that artist. And maybe that shortness by 3,4 or 5,6 minutes had something to do with these albums becoming iconic. I don't know, just a germinating theory.
 

I think you are onto something

Brain Salad Surgery is not generally considered 'Iconic' and that perhaps because it has too many tracks. If has been kept to just 2 tracks (or 4 if you count KE9 as 3 tracks) then it would have been better..

Side One would then have been
1) Toccata (7 minutes)
2) Karn Evil 1st Impression (13 minutes)
Side Two
3) Karn Evil 9 2nd Impression (7 minutes)
4) Karn Evil 9 3rd Impression (9 minutes)

I would have added the song Brain Salad Surgery (recorded at the same sessions) at the end to even out the sides . Would have been so much better and potentially a top 20 album on PA at least.

As a side note I would also be tempted to 'integrate' Toccata into Karn Evil 9 and put it between 1st Impression and Second Impression ( which then becomes 3rd impression). 


Interesting proposal
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LAM-SGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 13:40
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Tangerine Dream's epic, if unofficial, mid-'70s trilogy; the next album is shorter than the previous one. Every one of these albums rightly enjoys classic status with TD fans.

Phaedra (1974) – 36:14
Rubycon (1975) – 34:53
Stratosfear (1976) – 34:39


Great albums.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote judahbenkenobi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 13:42
Rush's Permanent Waves is so short! Only 6 songs and only 35:35!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 14:00
Originally posted by judahbenkenobi judahbenkenobi wrote:

Rush's Permanent Waves is so short! Only 6 songs and only 35:35!
 

Much firepower in such a short time frame! Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 14:16
Blue Oyster Cult – Agents of Fortune (36:18), the album with "(Don't Fear) The Reaper" & "E.T.I."

Shorter than both Secret Treaties and Spectres, directly before/after.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LAM-SGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 14:22
Agents of Fortunes is a great album.

Edited by LAM-SGC - February 18 2020 at 14:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 23:56
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

Genesis: Selling England by the Pound: 53:50
 
some people would say they could have shaved a few minutes off by removing "More Fool Me" and making it even more iconic.

I'm one of those people.
 

and Battle of Epping Forest and also maybe I know What I like (yawn), although not a bad track, Epping Forest does not stand along side Dancing With The Moonlit Knight , Cinema Show and Firth Of Fifth.

1. Dancing With The Moonlit Knight (8:01)
2. I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe) (4:06)
3. Firth Of Fifth (9:34)
4. More Fool Me (3:09)
5. The Battle Of Epping Forest(11:43)
6. After The Ordeal (4:12)
7. The Cinema Show (11:06)
8. Aisle Of Plenty (1:31)

fixed , now we have the perfect 36 minute prog album!


Edited by richardh - February 18 2020 at 23:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LAM-SGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2020 at 00:47
Indeed, the Battle of Epping Forest is an awful cringefest from start to finish.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grubert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2020 at 01:32
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

[QUOTE=Frenetic Zetetic][QUOTE=chopper][QUOTE=Mortte]

and Battle of Epping Forest and also maybe I know What I like (yawn), although not a bad track, Epping Forest does not stand along side Dancing With The Moonlit Knight , Cinema Show and Firth Of Fifth.

1. Dancing With The Moonlit Knight (8:01)
2. I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe) (4:06)
3. Firth Of Fifth (9:34)
4. More Fool Me (3:09)
5. The Battle Of Epping Forest(11:43)
6. After The Ordeal (4:12)
7. The Cinema Show (11:06)
8. Aisle Of Plenty (1:31)

fixed , now we have the perfect 36 minute prog album!


Hihi, yes, that's pretty similar to my feelings. I would also cut out After the Ordeal, a rather forgettable instrumental. And honestly, as much as I like the 3 then remaining tracks (with Aisle Of Plenty viewed as a part of the Cinema Show), all 3 would benefit from some shortening.
Hey, and now we have enough space to add Twilight Alehouse ...




Edited by Grubert - February 19 2020 at 01:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2020 at 01:37
Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Indeed, the Battle of Epping Forest is an awful cringefest from start to finish.[/QUOTE[

Or how to lose 10 000 000 points of credibility in one sentence TongueBig smile

the best thing on that album with Moonlit Knight

[QUOTE=Grubert]
Hey, and now we have enough space to add Twilight Alehouse ...

Alehouse dates from well before SEBTP and should be included on Cryme or Foxtrot once you've taken the weak tracks out Wink


Edited by Sean Trane - February 19 2020 at 01:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LAM-SGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2020 at 02:42
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Indeed, the Battle of Epping Forest is an awful cringefest from start to finish.[/QUOTE[

Or how to lose 10 000 000 points of credibility in one sentence TongueBig smile

the best thing on that album with Moonlit Knight

<span style="display: inline !imant; : none; : rgb255, 255, 255; color: rgb0, 0, 0; font-family: Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 1.4; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-trans: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">[QUOTE=Grubert]</span><span style="color: rgb0, 0, 0; font-family: sans,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-trans: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-family: sans,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
</span></span><div style="color: rgb0, 0, 0; font-family: Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-trans: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-family: sans,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-family: sans,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">Hey, and now we have enough space to add Twilight Alehouse ...</span></span>
<div style="color: rgb0, 0, 0; font-family: Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-trans: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">


Alehouse dates from well before SEBTP and should be included on Cryme or Foxtrot once you've taken the weak tracks out Wink



The corny lyrics and stupid attempts at accents by middle class arty types about a gang battle made every working class London kid cringe when we heard it. Credibility? Yes, you had none in my school if you liked that song.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2020 at 04:06
Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Indeed, the Battle of Epping Forest is an awful cringefest from start to finish.

Or how to lose 10 000 000 points of credibility in one sentence TongueBig smile

the best thing on that album with Moonlit Knight

Alehouse dates from well before SEBTP and should be included on Cryme or Foxtrot once you've taken the weak tracks out Wink



The corny lyrics and stupid attempts at accents by middle class arty types about a gang battle made every working class London kid cringe when we heard it. Credibility? Yes, you had none in my school if you liked that song.
 
The song is a spoof. 

who cares about if the sung accent are not 100%, the texts are hilarious  - by far the funniest of all Genesis tracks - and easily their top "rock opera" song of theirs - as opposed to the poor Harold The Barrel, the flawed Get Them Out, the rather good Assault & Battery and the OK All In A Mouse's Night. 

Harold Demure
From Art & Litterature

Bob The Knob 
Smacks across the gob

Bob The Knob 
Came Out on the job

Mick The Prick
Fresh Out of Nick 

Saw a sign "Beautiful Chest"
Lead me to a lady who showed me her best 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grubert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2020 at 04:42
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:


Alehouse dates from well before SEBTP and should be included on Cryme or Foxtrot once you've taken the weak tracks out Wink


Yeah, I know, and its style would not fit that well with SEBTP, and I assume it was recorded earlier, in the Foxtrot sessions most likely.

But whatever, the 3 shorter songs on SEBTP feel indeed like fillers for me, and actually the 4 "epic" songs are long enough to make an album. But Epic Forest is, like I mentioned before, one that I do not enjoy, it hasn't an interesting melody.

The 2 previous albums are good like they are, and are also the 2 I like the most from Genesis. Of course there would have been space on Nursery Crime to include Alehouse, and I think that it was in their live set at the time they recorded that album.


Edited by Grubert - February 19 2020 at 04:43
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2020 at 06:09
Originally posted by Grubert Grubert wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:


Alehouse dates from well before SEBTP and should be included on Cryme or Foxtrot once you've taken the weak tracks out Wink


Yeah, I know, and its style would not fit that well with SEBTP, and I assume it was recorded earlier, in the Foxtrot sessions most likely. 
 

I understand Alehuse already existed in one form or another in the Tresspass days . Next to The Knife, it sounds better than next to Firth or Cinema
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2020 at 07:16
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

Genesis: Selling England by the Pound: 53:50


 
some people would say they could have shaved a few minutes off by removing "More Fool Me" and making it even more iconic.


I'm one of those people.
 

and Battle of Epping Forest and also maybe I know What I like (yawn), although not a bad track, Epping Forest does not stand along side Dancing With The Moonlit Knight , Cinema Show and Firth Of fifth
fixed , now we have the perfect 36 minute prog album!


Sacreledge! Extend FOF out to 20 minutes, cinema show 23 mins DWTMK 20 mins and Forest to 22 mins....chop the rest...you prog heretic. .

Edited by M27Barney - February 19 2020 at 07:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldJean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2020 at 07:35
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Indeed, the Battle of Epping Forest is an awful cringefest from start to finish.[/QUOTE[

Or how to lose 10 000 000 points of credibility in one sentence TongueBig smile

the best thing on that album with Moonlit Knight

[QUOTE=Grubert]
Hey, and now we have enough space to add Twilight Alehouse ...

Alehouse dates from well before SEBTP and should be included on Cryme or Foxtrot once you've taken the weak tracks out Wink

I totally agree "Twilight Alehouse" should be put on "Nursery Cryme", as well as the single "Happy the Man". Friede and I actually created our own version of NC with first HTM and then TA following the original 7 tracks. oh, and for me there are no weak tracks on NC. "short and simple" does not equal "weak" at all, "short and simple" is part of the art for me


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