Short-ish iconic studio albums 70s
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Topic: Short-ish iconic studio albums 70s
Posted By: LAM-SGC
Subject: Short-ish iconic studio albums 70s
Date Posted: February 17 2020 at 07:11
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In the realm of classic rock, AOR, hard rock in the pre-punk days of the 70s, it feels more noticeable now in light of modern albums over 60 mins,when you realise how short some of the iconic albums by great bands were. For example, Deep Purple had a few round the 40-42 minute mark, then Machine Head came out and it was only around 37, then Who Do We Think We Are at around 34,35. And when listening to Machine Head this morning after having listened to an album that was 52 minutes,it felt so short, I was just getting into Space Truckin' and then it was over.... :) Just an observation, please return now to your normal duties :) |
Replies:
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: February 17 2020 at 07:26
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Quality, not quantity. Obviously in those days things were limited by the amount of music you could fit on a vinyl LP. Personally I'd rather have 30-40 minutes of quality, some of todays 70-80 minute CDs feel padded.
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Posted By: LAM-SGC
Date Posted: February 17 2020 at 07:41
| I realise the restrictions of a vinyl LP in the 70s, but you seem to have missed the point I'm making. |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: February 17 2020 at 08:31
| In fifties and begin of sixties LP:s were 30 minutes or less. To me mostly 25-45 minutes albums have always been just fine, of course there are great double LP:s too (for example so much last days talked Trout). But really already in the nineties I paid attention the quality of albums weakened (not every of course) and I think one reason was you can put all the songs in the CD:s you have recorded. Before you just have to leave out "loose" songs just for the limitation of LP:s. |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: February 17 2020 at 08:32
You're saying some classic albums are short, I'm saying I agree basically.
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LAM-SGC wrote:Posted By: Squonk19
Date Posted: February 17 2020 at 10:48
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I've thought about this for a while. The obvious limitations of vinyl clearly kept most albums below 45 minutes (good job when I used one side of a C90 cassette to record them from my mates (one for the oldies! 😆) However, some bands just scraped over the 30 minute mark at times. I think the classic rock album Rainbow Rising clicked in at just over 33 minutes - but it was concentrated quality, even if getting up every quarter of an hour to turn over the record, set the needle, get the duster out etc. was a pain in the **** that the vinyl crew of today seem to forget! 😆 It is rare that bands trying to fill up an hour, or even more, on an album, don't find themselves having to use filler (good material, but maybe not quite top notch). Try this out - take any of your favourite modern (post vinyl) albums and see how many good ones become truly special when you restrict them to only around 40 minutes, and discard the odd track or two. I think it shows that sometimes less is more! ------------- “Living in their pools, they soon forget about the sea.” |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: February 17 2020 at 11:14
| Short and sweet, that's the way I liked them. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: February 17 2020 at 11:17
I remember walking into the Wherehouse in the very early '90s, and they were proudly displaying Bryan Adams' new CD, which the label had adorned with a huge square sticker that read "OVER 60 MINUTES OF MUSIC!" "More minutes" turned into a big deal back then. If we bought a CD and it had no bonus tracks, we felt ripped off. That's exactly the mind set the labels were shooting for as they phased out vinyl and tape. But here's something really, really funny, that we had no idea of at the time. When Jethro Tull's Crest of a Knave came out, it felt like one of those albums that could have used a couple more songs to round things out. It was still forty-odd minutes, but with its seven songs (even one being ten minutes long), it still felt that way. Back then, we were all about driving around and blasting music, and we'd buy the cassette as soon as we saw it. In order to push sales of the new compact disc format ($20-22 avg. for singles), Chrysalis omitted "Dogs in the Midwinter" and "The Waking Edge" from the US cassette release only (UK tapes had them). When you got the CD eventually and flipped it over, you saw the proper track order and those two songs were integrated, not tacked on at the end with the (*) and denotation "(Bonus Track)." Long story short: Crest of a Knave works much better as a fifty-minute album. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: ForestFriend
Date Posted: February 17 2020 at 11:17
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Gentle Giant were the kings of short - but dense - prog. None of their studio albums were over 40 minutes, and I don't think they even made a song longer than 10 minutes (not counting live stuff). I have a fairly short attention span, so I find it tough to get into an album that's close to an hour or longer. Although I don't have the attitude that every album must be listened in full every time, so often I have better luck listening to individual tracks than the whole thing. ------------- https://borealkinship.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My prog band - Boreal Kinship |
Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: February 17 2020 at 11:21
| Seems like in the cases of the albums that came in at 30-35 minutes, the bands could have come up with one more song of good, maybe even great, quality. Otherwise the band is leaving a lot of unused minutes on that vinyl. |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: February 17 2020 at 11:26
| Genesis have problems already in seventies with vinyl format, at least Foxtrot & Lamb are really long as in vinyls, and really I won´t let from them anything out! |
Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: February 17 2020 at 11:43
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Artists like Neal Morse the flower kings and IQ release extremely bloated overly long albums these days. Look at all of our top 30 albums, see anything in common? They’re all under an hour. ------------- The sun has left the sky... ...Now you can close your eyes |
Posted By: LAM-SGC
Date Posted: February 17 2020 at 12:22
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This thread has taken an interesting turn, but I realise I haven't explained myself properly. So let me do it by way of comparison Yes - Fragile - about 41 mins Yet their iconic CTTE only about 37. Same as DP Machine Head, short in comparison to albums close to it by release. Neil Young's iconic Harvest 37 mins but On The Beach almost 40 mins. My point was that it seems that so many iconic albums were shorter than albums of the same period by that artist. And maybe that shortness by 3,4 or 5,6 minutes had something to do with these albums becoming iconic. I don't know, just a germinating theory. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: February 17 2020 at 12:35
I know what you mean, but perhaps a few minutes' difference doesn't seem to be a point of contention with most listeners in the same way that fifteen or twenty-plus minutes' worth of additional music is. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 17 2020 at 13:12
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Edgar Froese's "Epsilon in Malaysian Pale" (in my humble opinion a legendary album) clocks in at just over 34 minutes -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: February 17 2020 at 13:19
In every way imaginable! I just added up Peter Baumann's first solo LP, Romance 76, and it's 32:19!
------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: February 17 2020 at 15:09
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Economics and the nature of the business are at play as well. A shorter album means less time to produce, which means more product (sorry for the term) to make available. If you look at the time span between releases, such as Fragile and CTTE, you will see how many albums came out in rapid succession. This helps account for the shortness of the albums. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: Snicolette
Date Posted: February 17 2020 at 15:24
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If I recall correctly, shorter sides also meant better sound levels (on vinyl). So bands that were defining themselves by great sound as well as great musicianship would not want to put too much material on each side, which would decrease the sound quality of the recording as well. And I'm sure someone here will let me know if I'm in error. :) ------------- "Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp |
Posted By: LAM-SGC
Date Posted: February 17 2020 at 15:33
Now that is exactly the kind of thing I mean and what an amazing album. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: February 17 2020 at 15:54
No, not in error. (: ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: LAM-SGC
Date Posted: February 17 2020 at 15:57
| Another example of what I mean is Red, imo the best KC album, but also if I'm not mistaken (and I might well be ;) ) the shortest KC studio album of the 70s, just a few seconds under 40 minutes. |
Posted By: Snicolette
Date Posted: February 17 2020 at 16:00
------------- "Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 00:10
I think you are onto something Brain Salad Surgery is not generally considered 'Iconic' and that perhaps because it has too many tracks. If has been kept to just 2 tracks (or 4 if you count KE9 as 3 tracks) then it would have been better.. Side One would then have been 1) Toccata (7 minutes) 2) Karn Evil 1st Impression (13 minutes) Side Two 3) Karn Evil 9 2nd Impression (7 minutes) 4) Karn Evil 9 3rd Impression (9 minutes) I would have added the song Brain Salad Surgery (recorded at the same sessions) at the end to even out the sides . Would have been so much better and potentially a top 20 album on PA at least. As a side note I would also be tempted to 'integrate' Toccata into Karn Evil 9 and put it between 1st Impression and Second Impression ( which then becomes 3rd impression).
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Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 01:54
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I don´t think shortness has nothing to do about what album comes iconic. Examples: Jethro Tull: Thick As a Brick 43:46 Genesis: Selling England by the Pound: 53:50 Led Zeppelin IV 42:34 the Beatles: Abbey Road 47:03 And I haven´t mentioned any iconic doubles.
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Posted By: LAM-SGC
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 02:37
| I'm not making a concrete statement. As I said, it is just a slight theory, just based on a few of My favourite iconic albums, which are all shorter than the albums before and after them. |
Posted By: LAM-SGC
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 02:38
| That reminds me, I must check the lebgth of Wind & Wuthering. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 02:43
Standard vinyl duration in the 70's for UK and North Am was between 35 and 45 mins (rarely more), but continental Europe saw many albums below 30 minutes (France, Italy, most notably), but in Germany, Klaus Schulze came close to 60 mins with Timewind. in the 70's, MCA sued Elton John when his last album for them was under 30-mins (if memory serves in was +/- 27-mins) and won... Soo EJ found a couple more bottom-of-drawer tracks and slapped them on the album. Longer disc-album duration was certainly a problem in the 90's (some felt obliged to fill it to the brim), and it produced weariness. Thankfully, the return of vinyl (not a fan of the media's return, but it does have some advantages) made the albums shorter again.
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 03:58
some people would say they could have shaved a few minutes off by removing "More Fool Me" and making it even more iconic.
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Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 04:09
I'm one of those people. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 04:52
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Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 06:10
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As urban myth suggests, the 80 min CD format was fixed by the sony corporations head honcho wanting his favourite peice of music fitting on one disc. The beethoven? Piece came in at just over 79 minutes...wonder if more could have been possible? ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 07:38
Urban legend IMHO First when the CDs were invented and marketed, they could only hold 74 minutes of music. It was later extended to 79'54" Second, Sony would've had to agree with this with Phillips, who was the co-inventor of the CD. |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 07:51
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I think a lot of the releases today that are over 70 minutes have a lot of filler. Also, bands had less time to record in the studio in the 70's. They were limited by what the record company would pay for studio time, where now everyone can record on a laptop at home. And musicians/bands back then released an album a year, on average. Compare that With Tool who release an album every ten years. |
Posted By: LAM-SGC
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 07:57
| Nursery Cryme - 39 minutes! My point exactly. |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 10:08
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Grave New World is only about 36 minutes, but packs more styles and more genius than most double albums. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 10:11
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How about mirage and per un amico, if I recall 37 and 34 minutes respectfully ------------- The sun has left the sky... ...Now you can close your eyes |
Posted By: Snicolette
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 10:37
------------- "Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 10:51
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Many Italian prog titles comes to mind. ------------- |
Posted By: HarryAngel746
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 11:46
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Uomo di Pezza by Le Orme is short, but when I listen to it with closed eyes - it seems to lasts much longer, but yes it fits many Italian albums, for example on Storia di Un Minuto this "minute" takes something about 34 minutes.
+ again Brasilian Modulo 1000 has 32 minutes of psych doom prog https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWKf3wxxDZU" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWKf3wxxDZU
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Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 12:24
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RDM's Contamination (1975) at 36:07. ------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 12:28
------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 13:04
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Goblin – Roller {34:14} Iconic in my book! ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 13:14
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Tangerine Dream's epic, if unofficial, mid-'70s trilogy; the next album is shorter than the previous one. Every one of these albums rightly enjoys classic status with TD fans. Phaedra (1974) – 36:14 Rubycon (1975) – 34:53 Stratosfear (1976) – 34:39 ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Cosmiclawnmower
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 13:23
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Todd Rundgren was well known for trying to fit as much music on to two sides of vinyl as he could; most famously for the 'Initiation' album which (according to the sleeve notes) has over an hour over two sides. It doesn't state track lengths on the label or cover and ive never 'timed' it personally.. it does suffer from (A) very low volume and (B) a very thin reedy sound. It also states on the record sleeve that if your stylus is even slightly worn you will ruin the lp immediately! Ive noticed that quite a few of Todd's 70s lps suffer from this and wonder if it was rectified in later CD production? Todd's advice at the time was to record the lp onto a cassette, setting the levels higher, and play that! Not sure that was one of Todd's smartest moves.. As an almost (but not exclusively) totally vinyl listener, I find that many modern lps are released on doubles with very short sides (12-15 mins) and sometimes a blank side with some lazer etching.. and that 'filler' is just as evident as it was in the 70s and 80's. Back then a few extra tracks were often recorded either to release as (horror of horrors) 'B' sides of singles or for a companion EP.. these are now just bonus tracks on CD re-issues. ------------- |
Posted By: judahbenkenobi
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 13:36
Interesting proposal 
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Posted By: LAM-SGC
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 13:40
Great albums. |
Posted By: judahbenkenobi
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 13:42
| Rush's Permanent Waves is so short! Only 6 songs and only 35:35! |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 14:00
Much firepower in such a short time frame!  ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 14:16
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Blue Oyster Cult – Agents of Fortune (36:18), the album with "(Don't Fear) The Reaper" & "E.T.I." Shorter than both Secret Treaties and Spectres, directly before/after. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: LAM-SGC
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 14:22
| Agents of Fortunes is a great album. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 18 2020 at 23:56
and Battle of Epping Forest and also maybe I know What I like (yawn), although not a bad track, Epping Forest does not stand along side Dancing With The Moonlit Knight , Cinema Show and Firth Of Fifth. 1. Dancing With The Moonlit Knight (8:01) 3. Firth Of Fifth (9:34) 6. After The Ordeal (4:12) 7. The Cinema Show (11:06) 8. Aisle Of Plenty (1:31) fixed , now we have the perfect 36 minute prog album!
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Posted By: LAM-SGC
Date Posted: February 19 2020 at 00:47
| Indeed, the Battle of Epping Forest is an awful cringefest from start to finish. |
Posted By: Grubert
Date Posted: February 19 2020 at 01:32
Hihi, yes, that's pretty similar to my feelings. I would also cut out After the Ordeal, a rather forgettable instrumental. And honestly, as much as I like the 3 then remaining tracks (with Aisle Of Plenty viewed as a part of the Cinema Show), all 3 would benefit from some shortening. Hey, and now we have enough space to add Twilight Alehouse ... |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: February 19 2020 at 01:37
Alehouse dates from well before SEBTP and should be included on Cryme or Foxtrot once you've taken the weak tracks out
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Posted By: LAM-SGC
Date Posted: February 19 2020 at 02:42
The corny lyrics and stupid attempts at accents by middle class arty types about a gang battle made every working class London kid cringe when we heard it. Credibility? Yes, you had none in my school if you liked that song. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: February 19 2020 at 04:06
The song is a spoof. who cares about if the sung accent are not 100%, the texts are hilarious - by far the funniest of all Genesis tracks - and easily their top "rock opera" song of theirs - as opposed to the poor Harold The Barrel, the flawed Get Them Out, the rather good Assault & Battery and the OK All In A Mouse's Night. Harold Demure From Art & Litterature Bob The Knob Smacks across the gob Bob The Knob Came Out on the job Mick The Prick Fresh Out of Nick Saw a sign "Beautiful Chest" Lead me to a lady who showed me her best |
Posted By: Grubert
Date Posted: February 19 2020 at 04:42
Yeah, I know, and its style would not fit that well with SEBTP, and I assume it was recorded earlier, in the Foxtrot sessions most likely. But whatever, the 3 shorter songs on SEBTP feel indeed like fillers for me, and actually the 4 "epic" songs are long enough to make an album. But Epic Forest is, like I mentioned before, one that I do not enjoy, it hasn't an interesting melody. The 2 previous albums are good like they are, and are also the 2 I like the most from Genesis. Of course there would have been space on Nursery Crime to include Alehouse, and I think that it was in their live set at the time they recorded that album.
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: February 19 2020 at 06:09
I understand Alehuse already existed in one form or another in the Tresspass days . Next to The Knife, it sounds better than next to Firth or Cinema
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Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: February 19 2020 at 07:16
Sacreledge! Extend FOF out to 20 minutes, cinema show 23 mins DWTMK 20 mins and Forest to 22 mins....chop the rest...you prog heretic. . ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 19 2020 at 07:35
I totally agree "Twilight Alehouse" should be put on "Nursery Cryme", as well as the single "Happy the Man". Friede and I actually created our own version of NC with first HTM and then TA following the original 7 tracks. oh, and for me there are no weak tracks on NC. "short and simple" does not equal "weak" at all, "short and simple" is part of the art for me ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: February 19 2020 at 08:01
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Battle of Epping forest fits the concept perfectly. A triumph of lyrical comedic social comment. But non brits tend not to get the zeitgeist... ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: February 19 2020 at 08:15
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I've always felt Pink Floyd's Animals was missing something. A donkey or a goat. Maybe one brown mouse. Something. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: February 19 2020 at 08:33
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^ Inland Taipan to represent Lawers... ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: February 19 2020 at 08:39
Oh, we non-Brits "get it". We got it in the first couple minutes of the song. Unfortunately, a 4-5 minute song that drags on with errant rambling and noodling for nearly 12 minutes wrecks the pacing of what otherwise is a brilliant album. One of the few songs of that era of Genesis that bores me to tears. To this day, I thank Emerson, Lake and Palmer for limiting "Benny the Bouncer" to 2:21. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: February 19 2020 at 09:15
Well I like it.
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Posted By: HarryAngel746
Date Posted: February 19 2020 at 10:40
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These two little albums prove that about 30 minutes is completely enough to satisfy the most demanding artistic tastes: The Viola Crayola - Music: Breathing of States 1974 (29'15min) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7DTAJTM2PM" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7DTAJTM2PM Sintesis - Sintesis 1976 (32'43min with bonus track) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L_C4Rti4jU" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L_C4Rti4jU ok - they may not be iconic, but they should be!
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Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: February 19 2020 at 12:16
I think the comparison of the chas N Dave Emerson track with a Genesis masterclass of prog rock punditry is the height of ignorance....Gabriel penned lyrics which are delivered in an assortment of character voices are part of a track which extends on the social commentary of "Harold the Barrel" another example to ELP of what a track of that type should sound like...it's a great track. Anybody who rates more fool me as better than it should stick to boy bands and stay away from symphonic prog... ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: February 19 2020 at 12:25
No the height of ignorance would be if ELP elongated Benny the Bouncer into a 12 minute dialogue with bad accents for several of Benny's nefarious associates, throw about an even longer list of lowbrow slang than the song is already chock-full of to prove the band's hipness, and then refer to the resultant noodling drivel as a "masterclass of prog rock punditry".  ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: February 19 2020 at 12:30
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Most albums in the 1970 were between 35 and 45 minutes. Genesis passed the 50 minute-mark a few times and Klaus Schulze crossed the 55-minute border a few times. The most iconic short album (< 35 minutes) I can think of is Traffic - John Barleycorn Must Die (34:33) ------------- 
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Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: February 19 2020 at 12:38
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Benny the bouncer, rock opera , without the bar-room piano n chas & dave vocals would have improved on the bss release by at least one magnitude, maybe two... ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: February 19 2020 at 12:55
| For me, in most cases, I find it good that there were limitations to the length of an album, and that bands didn't have the urge to fill up more and more time just for the sake of doing so. Though there are indeed cases of wonderful longer albums nowdays, and perhaps bands could have done some great stuff back then without limitations (I can think of Shine On you Crazy Diamond from Pink Floyd, which they had to divide because it didn't fit in one side of a vinyl... or perhaps they might even have included "You gotta be Crazy" and "Raving and Drooling" on wish you were here if the CD format existed back then, instead of leaving them for the next album). And then, there's Dream Theater, whom are among my favourite bands, but I find it hard to choose a really great album from them, because they always have songs that don't satisfy me... however, if I leave out the weaker songs (talking about albums still with Portnoy), I find that it could still have been a whole album from the 70's for it's length. Still, if they had limited themselves to such times, who knows if they would have chosen the songs that I chose. |
Posted By: LAM-SGC
Date Posted: February 20 2020 at 01:43
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My favourite Neil Young album Zuma is only 36 minutes, before it Tonight's the Night was 45 minutes. |
Posted By: Grubert
Date Posted: February 20 2020 at 02:17
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King Crimson returned in 1994 with a short album called Vrooom (about 31 min), and it was a fantastic album, but it was only an appetizer for the real album, which then was released half a year later as Thrak. Thrak ran for 56 min, and even if there were 2 more great songs on it, Thrak frayed out, cause it also contained several lesser songs and pieces. In the end Thrak did not have that wonderful concentrated flow of Vrooom. Vrooom is one of my favourite Crimson albums, Thrak not. So I made, yes, yes, yes, my own album, by adding some of the Thrak stuff to Vrooom, and in that version it is the best Crimson album ever, better than In the court, better than Red, better than Discipline. But on the other hand there are of course also albums which would have benefited from one more good track, which are missing something. Procol Harum's first album is better with the 2 single-only tracks A Whiter Shade of Pale and Homburg added (my first CD had them as part of the album) and Sergeant Pepper's suffers from omitting Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane. And actually I don't think anyway that shorter albums are generally better than longer albums.
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Posted By: LAM-SGC
Date Posted: February 20 2020 at 02:42
Steady on sir, better than Red? I must hear your version.
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 20 2020 at 03:10
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"Rubycon" by Tangerine Dream. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: LAM-SGC
Date Posted: February 20 2020 at 03:23
My absolute favourite, with Phaedra at No. 2 and at No. 3, you might be surprised, Tyger. |
Posted By: Grubert
Date Posted: February 20 2020 at 06:47
Well, it is, of course, like everything else, all subjective ...
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: February 20 2020 at 09:26
Actually, it's a self-proclaimed pure brit (LAM-SGC) that seems to have the most problems with it. personally I think every minute of the epic opera is great.
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Posted By: LAM-SGC
Date Posted: February 20 2020 at 09:44
Pure-Brit? Hardly, I'm actually Irish :) And I live in Sweden. London was my inbetween spot, from age 5 to 34, moved to Sweden in 1996. I'm only a pure-Brit in music taste...perhaps. 
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: February 20 2020 at 11:34
Stratosfear is just a tad shorter (time lengths on previous page). ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: LAM-SGC
Date Posted: February 20 2020 at 13:08
I don't know why but that's one of the few TD albums I really need to have another go at. I don't know, it just seemed to pass me by. |
Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: February 20 2020 at 13:20
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Whenever a poster castigates a song with adjectives "noodling" or "rambling". They surely realise that, most of us, as prog fans, welcome and embrace most noodling and rambling as essential for the genre....short is for commercial pop....let us celebrate the need for length....extension is good... ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: February 20 2020 at 14:28
I only used the word "noodling" once in an album review. Never again. Although I didn't mean it disrespectfully. I just prefer "keyboard wizardry" or some such similar term of praise to voice my approval.
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: February 20 2020 at 15:14
Stratosfear is one of their MASTERWORKS. The title track is, hands down, one of the best things they've ever done. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Braka1
Date Posted: February 20 2020 at 23:01
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This has probably been said somewhere above, but I think rock albums - and perhaps especially prog - benifited from the constraints of the LP era. Rock grew up with a typical 40 minute album 'limit', and I think that's part of its DNA (yes, artists like Klaus Schulze squeezed 30 minutes a side onto vinyl, but the sound quality starts to drop noticeably if you do that with something with a lot of dynamic range) Quite apart from those physical considerations, an LP has four pivotal tracks: the first and last tracks on side A and B. I'd dare to say all great rock albums were sequenced with this dynamic in mind. The coming of the CD means we lost two of those pivot points, and with streaming we pretty much lost all of them. I have to admit I don't really miss changing LP sides, nor do I miss the slow deterioration of vinyl, but I do believe old LPs on CD often suffer from the absence of that dramatic structure; probably more so if you don't remember the original vinyl sequence. And for sure, too many artists suffered a drop in quality when they transitioned to trying to 'fill up' a CD with material. I'm also of the opinion that 70-80 minutes is often just too long to maintain peak level of concentration for many styles of rock, without some sort of fatigue setting in. This may be less true for prog than many other forms. 'Tales From Topographic Oceans' is arguably an album that would like to have had access to a CD running length - though, again, the framing device of 4 side-long songs on a double LP of vinyl is essentially the same pattern as a more conventional album with the four structural points I mentioned before. Quite possibly it BECAME a work of four movements because of the constraints of vinyl, and had it come out with no need to impose a structure of that sort, it would probably have been a completely different work. YMMV. Maybe this is just because the vinyl album structure is what I grew up on, and it feels instinctively right. But when I hear 'Dark Side' on CD, I always mentally register that 'Money' is the start of side two. ------------- Believe me Pope Paul, my toes are clean |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 22 2020 at 01:26
yes definitely. I first heard it on the Dream Sequence compilation ( The first thing I ever bought by TD) and very slightly edited . That was when a structured approach started to become more apparent I think.
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Posted By: Machinemessiah
Date Posted: February 25 2020 at 12:09
Yeah! it made me remember when I got my hands on Octopus on CD a long time ago (the stereo showed clearly the total play time  ).. it was a birthday present from two of a us proggy friends to a third one.Summing up now it seems 34:05 I think..  |