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What drives American genres is licks, not just a 'sound'. You write a kickass lick and then toy with it, you're good to go. Sometimes you don't need to envision an out of the world structure or go to faraway places; you can just stay rooted and grounded and still kick ass. Notice that American music is so in the pocket a lot of times. You need both kinds of music, obviously, to complete the picture. But just on the topic of licks, I know micky said SRV isn't REAL blues but sample this, amazing machine gun riff.
How many players from Europe can you think of who could play the blues as well as him? Leave out Clapton (and FWIW I DON'T think he is as good as SRV) and then you have Gary Moore who is also from the Anglo American universe. Continental Europe? Maybe the closest was Uli Roth who was still a hard rock guitarist end of the day and needed all that almighty gain.
rogerthat knows his players-- of course Stevie isn't real blues, but he was also the greatest I've ever seen (particularly when he was drinking). SRV was the next iteration of electric blues, the modern new & improved version, taking what Jimi did to a new level where both feeling and virtuosity were important. Clapton never quite got it but Moore came close, and Uli Jon Roth is a genius, probably the best technical-soul player in the world. His Electric Sun albums particularly Firewind, are magnificent (try to ignore his vocals ;) --
Originally, I like Grace Slick more. In fact, 5 years ago, I would have still said Slick. But recently I have come to appreciate Joplin more than before. So I vote Joplin, though I think they are both excellent vocalists.
Kate Bush is still the best female vocalist ever though.
As much as I like Jefferson Airplane (and also some Jefferson Starship), I think Janis was the better vocalist by far. Though a great frontwoman, Grace was rather weak live, resorting to shouting rather than singing. I remember how disappointed I was when listening for an Airplane live album for the first time.
It works both ways.. overly intellectual music something the Europeans excelled at...has never really gained a foothold here in the States for our musical tradition.. in contrast to theirs is not based on music being an creative outlet for the .. higher classes.. the educated....but an outlet for the sh*t upon and left behinds of life man. Much as overly intellectual music never really caught here or was ever particularly well done.. as it ain't in our DNA.. the blues.. jazz.. it is part of our musical DNA.. and though Euros may connect the stylistic dots . it is without any kind of empathy if you will. It is all about emotion.. feel. and that is not just NOT easy to replicate.. it is damn near impossible.
If all it was in the music was intellectual bullsheets, then we would not even consider anything like it ... and it's weird you saying this and comparing both ... because there was so much improvisation, stoned or otherwise, and saying that one is intellectual and the other isn't is bizarre ... and probably completely out of touch ... for many folks in Germany it was about how the sound felt and you matched up to it, and some folks made music out of the noise, and some did Jimi impressions (early Guru Guru), and others just ripped up the stage (Ulli) and then others, went after new sounds that helped illustrate their imagery ... which has absolutely NOTHING to do with intellectual anything, and is the biggest rap on music there is ... even here ... improvisation is not considered "valid" music, because it is missing the "mind", so to speak!
You don't see a connection between a Klaus Kinki and a Damo ... so you don't know the value of "busking", on the street as opposed to in front of the camera. And you think that singing the blues (Janis is a far out example) is what it is all about, not realizing that the same words, or different words are also "blues" to one's inner mind and body in different ways ...
I'm glad I quit a lot of dope many years ago ... at the very least I do not have what I think are damaged views of what music, and the arts is supposed to be ... like Edgar Allan Poe's "blues" are not his short stories!
Weird!
I see micky's point albeit I wouldn't call it intellectual vs emotion. What drives American genres is licks, not just a 'sound'. You write a kickass lick and then toy with it, you're good to go. Sometimes you don't need to envision an out of the world structure or go to faraway places; you can just stay rooted and grounded and still kick ass. Notice that American music is so in the pocket a lot of times. You need both kinds of music, obviously, to complete the picture. But just on the topic of licks, I know micky said SRV isn't REAL blues but sample this, amazing machine gun riff.
How many players from Europe can you think of who could play the blues as well as him? Leave out Clapton (and FWIW I DON'T think he is as good as SRV) and then you have Gary Moore who is also from the Anglo American universe. Continental Europe? Maybe the closest was Uli Roth who was still a hard rock guitarist end of the day and needed all that almighty gain.
great clip...an absolute fav of mine.. #2 unforunately... and let me retort with #1 ... #6 on my list of blow thy speaker songs ever put to vinyl or silicon..
SRV is a fascinating topic in himself but think you and David hit the head of that nail arleady.. so sticking semi on topic here.
No.. I meant what I said and think (of course haha) that I was spot on. It is not riff based.. it is indeed differentiated from European music on the intellectualism vs. emotinalism continum as I said. What I had not mentioned was the third leg of the uniquely American musical experience.. country music. That is the trump card if you will to my argument. That music is not riff based in the least. but predicated solely in relation to the listener's emotions not their intellect. It is music that a listener listen to not to be inspired.. or stimulated.. but reinforced. If you f**king dog got run over.. you don't put a f**king VDGG album on... you put on some DAC.. your spousal unit run amuck with a coworker or the damn mailman.. you put on some Hank Williams. The same applies to the blues and jazz.. it is all about the emotions the music helps stimulate and reinforce...
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Originally, I like Grace Slick more. In fact, 5 years ago, I would have still said Slick. But recently I have come to appreciate Joplin more than before. So I vote Joplin, though I think they are both excellent vocalists.
Kate Bush is still the best female vocalist ever though.
Don't know if there is any ONE best female vocalist but if I had to put a name to it TODAY, I would probably say Floor Jansen. And I would urge everyone who disagrees to have a look at what she did this year on Beste Zangers. She showed she is not just a run of the mill metal singer but very open to adapt to different genres and diligent enough to execute impeccably. I changed my opinion a lot after Beste Zangers because I didn't realise her repertoire was so vast either.
It works both ways.. overly intellectual music something the Europeans excelled at...has never really gained a foothold here in the States for our musical tradition.. in contrast to theirs is not based on music being an creative outlet for the .. higher classes.. the educated....but an outlet for the sh*t upon and left behinds of life man. Much as overly intellectual music never really caught here or was ever particularly well done.. as it ain't in our DNA.. the blues.. jazz.. it is part of our musical DNA.. and though Euros may connect the stylistic dots . it is without any kind of empathy if you will. It is all about emotion.. feel. and that is not just NOT easy to replicate.. it is damn near impossible.
If all it was in the music was intellectual bullsheets, then we would not even consider anything like it ... and it's weird you saying this and comparing both ... because there was so much improvisation, stoned or otherwise, and saying that one is intellectual and the other isn't is bizarre ... and probably completely out of touch ... for many folks in Germany it was about how the sound felt and you matched up to it, and some folks made music out of the noise, and some did Jimi impressions (early Guru Guru), and others just ripped up the stage (Ulli) and then others, went after new sounds that helped illustrate their imagery ... which has absolutely NOTHING to do with intellectual anything, and is the biggest rap on music there is ... even here ... improvisation is not considered "valid" music, because it is missing the "mind", so to speak!
You don't see a connection between a Klaus Kinki and a Damo ... so you don't know the value of "busking", on the street as opposed to in front of the camera. And you think that singing the blues (Janis is a far out example) is what it is all about, not realizing that the same words, or different words are also "blues" to one's inner mind and body in different ways ...
I'm glad I quit a lot of dope many years ago ... at the very least I do not have what I think are damaged views of what music, and the arts is supposed to be ... like Edgar Allan Poe's "blues" are not his short stories!
Weird!
I see micky's point albeit I wouldn't call it intellectual vs emotion. What drives American genres is licks, not just a 'sound'. You write a kickass lick and then toy with it, you're good to go. Sometimes you don't need to envision an out of the world structure or go to faraway places; you can just stay rooted and grounded and still kick ass. Notice that American music is so in the pocket a lot of times. You need both kinds of music, obviously, to complete the picture. But just on the topic of licks, I know micky said SRV isn't REAL blues but sample this, amazing machine gun riff.
How many players from Europe can you think of who could play the blues as well as him? Leave out Clapton (and FWIW I DON'T think he is as good as SRV) and then you have Gary Moore who is also from the Anglo American universe. Continental Europe? Maybe the closest was Uli Roth who was still a hard rock guitarist end of the day and needed all that almighty gain.
great clip...an absolute fav of mine.. #2 unforunately... and let me retort with #1 ... #6 on my list of blow thy speaker songs ever put to vinyl or silicon..
SRV is a fascinating topic in himself but think you and David hit the head of that nail arleady.. so sticking semi on topic here.
No.. I meant what I said and think (of course haha) that I was spot on. It is not riff based.. it is indeed differentiated from European music on the intellectualism vs. emotinalism continum as I said. What I had not mentioned was the third leg of the uniquely American musical experience.. country music. That is the trump card if you will to my argument. That music is not riff based in the least. but predicated solely in relation to the listener's emotions not their intellect. It is music that a listener listen to not to be inspired.. or stimulated.. but reinforced. If you f**king dog got run over.. you don't put a f**king VDGG album on... you put on some DAC.. your spousal unit run amuck with a coworker or the damn mailman.. you put on some Hank Williams. The same applies to the blues and jazz.. it is all about the emotions the music helps stimulate and reinforce...
Unfortunately, country is my blindspot so if my dog got run over, I would still be far more inclined to listen to Gary wail with voice and guitar on Still Got The Blues rather than country. That said, the more uptempo (that's a very metal term, by the way ) songs in country do have riffs. Rockabilly guitar is another topic by itself. Danny Gatton was an absolute monster.
Albert Lee is brilliant too. I am sure there are many more; just not acquainted with all of them.
Maybe a broader and more encompassing term than 'licks' is 'pulse'. I get this dichotomy because in India too, we used to have this friendly 'culture war' between high minded and technically incredible classical music and popular music based on our folk traditions. It is very tempting for someone with a 'progressive' leaning in music to automatically take the former to be superior but it is very difficult, in fact, to do what somebody like Ilayaraja did, to 'get to the point' in just 4-5 minutes and again and again over a couple of thousand tracks. And it's 'authentic' music in the way blues or soul could be said to be. It's not all sugary commercial music made for immediate assimilation by the masses.
What drives American genres is licks, not just a 'sound'. You write a kickass lick and then toy with it, you're good to go. Sometimes you don't need to envision an out of the world structure or go to faraway places; you can just stay rooted and grounded and still kick ass. Notice that American music is so in the pocket a lot of times. You need both kinds of music, obviously, to complete the picture. But just on the topic of licks, I know micky said SRV isn't REAL blues but sample this, amazing machine gun riff.
How many players from Europe can you think of who could play the blues as well as him? Leave out Clapton (and FWIW I DON'T think he is as good as SRV) and then you have Gary Moore who is also from the Anglo American universe. Continental Europe? Maybe the closest was Uli Roth who was still a hard rock guitarist end of the day and needed all that almighty gain.
rogerthat knows his players-- of course Stevie isn't real blues, but he was also the greatest I've ever seen (particularly when he was drinking). SRV was the next iteration of electric blues, the modern new & improved version, taking what Jimi did to a new level where both feeling and virtuosity were important. Clapton never quite got it but Moore came close, and Uli Jon Roth is a genius, probably the best technical-soul player in the world. His Electric Sun albums particularly Firewind, are magnificent (try to ignore his vocals ;) --
Thanks for the heads up on Firewind. Have always wondered where to start with Electric Sun, because,yes, the vocals are off putting. But he was and is an incredible guitarist in the way he could anticipate that neo classical stuff Yngwie & co were going to unleash in the 80s and also wail his heart out on songs like Crying Days or Yellow Raven.
By the way, on the topic of blues, I am sure you would have seen this many times before, but if you haven't, well worth relishing. Moore and BB King playing Thrill Is Gone. Just too much blues awesomeness in 9 minutes.
Originally, I like Grace Slick more. In fact, 5 years ago, I would have still said Slick. But recently I have come to appreciate Joplin more than before. So I vote Joplin, though I think they are both excellent vocalists.
Kate Bush is still the best female vocalist ever though.
Don't know if there is any ONE best female vocalist but if I had to put a name to it TODAY, I would probably say Floor Jansen. And I would urge everyone who disagrees to have a look at what she did this year on Beste Zangers. She showed she is not just a run of the mill metal singer but very open to adapt to different genres and diligent enough to execute impeccably. I changed my opinion a lot after Beste Zangers because I didn't realise her repertoire was so vast either.
Floor is a great call here. I was already enamored of her talent based on her work with After Forever and ReVamp. But when she was able to step into Nightwish, following the departure of Tarja (greatest symphonic metal singer ever), and do so so admirably, well, that was the ultimate testament to her talent.
We need to realize that to do Symphonic Metal well is much more demanding on a vocalist than standard metal. Floor absolutely kills it.
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Posted: November 23 2019 at 14:30
so if my dog got run over, I would still be far more inclined to listen to Gary wail with voice and guitar on Still Got The Blues rather than country. That said, the more uptempo (that's a very metal term, by the way 
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rogerthat wrote: