Brexit: A change of heart??

Ok, so the two votes went as expected. Theresa May's deal got hammered and the motion of no confidence in the government was defeated.

So, what next?

I suspect that Theresa May's plan B is plan A. She will keep pushing her deal and parliament will keep rejecting it. Unless the backstop is removed then it has zero chance of being approved.

Meanwhile Jeremy Corbyn will keep proposing no confidence motions in the government and will keep being defeated.

The clock will keep ticking towards no deal, which now looks odds on.

Lewian wrote: Sean Trane wrote: - I never did understand why the UK didn't modify the immigration & integration laws that makes them THE target/paradise for migrants from all over the world to get in there. Modify (as in strengthening the conditions to access benefits) them and this should stop the flood, if it is such an enormous issue That's a good point; when the EU took on the former communist countries in east (or rather middle) Europe, the UK wanted to be more open and welcoming than anyone else. There was a transitory agreement on not having free movement from day 1, but Blair didn't sign up to that and opened the doors. Very ironical that British people complain about the EU regarding immigration, their issue with EU immigrants is totally home-made. That said, having been an EU immigrant to the UK myself, obviously I don't think there's even much of an issue to solve - or rather, the problem doesn't outweigh the benefits.

Sean Trane wrote: Blacksword wrote: ^^^ I agree. There's no time to come up with something new now. It's taken two years to come up with the no-show she's just presented. In any case, anything she comes up with would be rejected by the opposition and by hardline Brexit tories. We're leaving with no deal, so we better get used to it, and the EU must be seen to be as unsupportive as possible, othewise it may embolden the Euro skeptic brigades in the other member states. Not sure what the future looks like, but I don't think it would do any harm, or be an over reaction, at this point, to start stocking up on essential items like non perishable foods and basic medical supplies.   There is a third scenario everyone is forgetting about   Deal or no-deal is what everyone is concentrating about...   But I suspect that some are thinking to simply cease that Art 50 bullsh*t stuff (I'm sure it can be done, as an emergency procedure... my money's on it), so that means Remain, until a better deal is done.... which could be years to come

I actually hope you're right. It is an option, but it would p!ss off so many people, I'm not convinced May would go with it. It would alienate so many tory brexiteers, see her overthrown in favour of someone like Rees Mogg or Boris Johnson, and would embolden UKIP.

I think the UK should join EFTA and EEA, no Irish border, and that could find a cross-party majority if it was just for the benefits of that approach alone. Unfortunately all the "that's not really Brexit and would ignore the will of the people" rhetoric and party political muddle will probably make this impossible. Ask people in Norway why they are in there and not in the EU and you will find that it makes a real difference. As long as people think that any kind of compromise that gives the 48% (and those in the 52% that are not hardliners) even a tiny little bit is a betrayal of the people (what people??), nothing good will happen for the UK. 


Edited by Lewian - January 17 2019 at 05:02

Chaser wrote: Ok, so the two votes went as expected. Theresa May's deal got hammered and the motion of no confidence in the government was defeated. ...

Sean Trane wrote: Chaser wrote: Yes, I agree with what you say Blacksword. Pro remainers are trying to get Theresa to rule out no deal. They know that, if she did that, the only options left on the table would be her deal (which is a non starter) or cancelling article 50 and remaining (which would, of course, result in mayhem in the UK) Or else another referendum, but May has ruled it out, and polls show only a minority in the UK actually want another referendum. Whatever MP's say I think a no deal exit looks more likely with every day that passes.   I don't understand why the No Deal worshippers are doing, though...   Why reject a deal (even not e very good one) with the EU, when No Deal at all can only make matters worse for them...   or are they going to declare economic warfare with the EU once they're out of itand that's why they don't want to sign in obeying the rules of the agreement (provided there are any)     Or are the No Dealers simply blind extremists whose faith can only be detrimental to their own cause ?

They're either extremists or mindless optimists who don't understand that if you can't trade in a cost effective manner with another nation (or union of nations) businesses go out of business, and countless numbers of people are made unemployed. The unemployed need paying for, but tax revenues which fund welfare diminish because there are millions fewer tax payers and GDP drops considerably, so you have a serious problem on your hands.

Brexiters generally fall into two other categories (generally speaking) The very wealthy who actually aren't really affected significantly if we remain or leave, but want to leave so they can avoid incoming EU legislation on tax avoidance (probably), and the poor who blame EU immigration for their poverty. The latter feel their position is validated, because the former also want to leave, and the latter believe they are 'on their side' when in reality they couldn't give a monkeys about them, and are solely protecting their own interests.

Too harsh??

Chaser wrote:   That means it's almost the same as staying fully in the EU, but without any say in the rules.  For that reason, Brexiteers would never accept it, and even a lot of remainers are not keen because it's a worse option than we've got now.   The problem with joining EFTA is that the EFTA countries would have to agree to us joining, and, at the moment, they're not too keen:   https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/07/norwegian-politicians-reject-uks-norway-plus-brexit-plan

Wonder if Pedro is aware that Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden fame is an ardent Brexiteer.  The funny part is we have Fripp on quote saying the very prospect of Brexit has already made touring in the EU difficult for him.  And yet, if you ask Bruce, Brexit is going to help everyone get rid of the horrendous EU  bureaucracy and all that.  And his fans cheer him on for saying so.

lazland wrote: Take their money, he said. And when they tell you to do something you don't want to do, be more like us. Tell them to f**k off, and don't take a blind bit of notice.