I've noticed that there are some here that detest any whiff of Christianity in prog music.
Saying things like "I don't want their religion shoved down my throat!", etc.

While not taking into account that Tales from Topographic Oceans was based on Hinduism.
All of Neil Peart's work is based on Humanism (which is its own worldview/religion), or the philosophies of Ayn Rand.
Kim Petersen (King Diamond) is a Satanist.
Dream Theater's Metropolis Pt. 2, Scenes From a Memory is about reincarnation (more Hinduism).
Maudlin of the Well (Astral Projection).

[Insert hundreds of examples here]

No one complains about that subject matter... (Nor do I).
No one complains that Jon Anderson is "forcing Hinduism down my throat", for example...

I guess I don't understand the animus and backlash over Neal Morse, Iona/Dave Bainbridge, Ajalon, S91, Supernal Endgame or any other "Christian" prog.

Someone, please enlighten this idiot.

(Taken from an old song title of mine: "Enlightened Idiots")


Edited by Cylli Kat - November 03 2018 at 20:35

^ great reply

Edited by micky - November 03 2018 at 16:04

Whenever I ask someone to write me lyrics for one of my songs I stipulate specifically no politics or religion please....

I suspect the reason I particularly don't like Christian lyrics in my own music or the music I like to listen to is a throwback to childhood when it literally WAS rammed down my throat and quite against my will at the time. I still shudder when I think back to those stuffy churches I was forced to attend on sundays with these po-faced, dismal preachers threatening hellfire if I didn't conform to certain religious ideals, and all those dreadful crappy hymns all these daft old bats would sing so seriously while standing there all dressed up like peacocks. I hated it.

As for all the other stuff mentioned above, Jon Anderson, Neil Peart etc, none of that offends me at all....



Edited by flyingveepixie - November 04 2018 at 03:39

^ nothing to me is more uplifting than gospel music which I have a lot of love for.. and perhaps the only love of mine musically that Raff still hasn't taken to yet...

Atavachron wrote: I'm guessing Cylli is getting more than he bargained for.

No, not at all.
I didn't start the thread to start a debate, I was just hoping to gain some insight into why people have such animus towards "Christian" prog.

I might end up adding my impressions and opinions if the thread gains some traction and it's worth my throwing my two coppers into the fray. And by that, I mean if my two cents will move the topic further along.
Otherwise, it just ends up becoming a pissing contest, and that is not what I was looking for.




Edited by Cylli Kat - November 03 2018 at 21:24

"Why such animus towards Christian prog?"

Cylli Kat wrote: I guess I don't understand the animus and backlash over Neal Morse, Iona/Dave Bainbridge, Ajalon, S91, Supernal Endgame or any other "Christian" prog. Someone, please enlighten this idiot.

Oh I got plenty of christian folk, jazz, "world" + some soul/gospel... even metal (Trouble!!) - and counting early music/classical I got sh*tloads of christian music in my collection. I don't mind. They can sing that I'll burn in hell for all I care. Its not all that different than listening to satanic lyrics really. I do love (early) Wovenhand and The Trees Community who are both in PA. But everything I've heard by those you mention is just the wrong kind of approach to me. Blah!

Catcher10 wrote: "Why such animus towards Christian prog?" Because people are scared......

flyingveepixie wrote: Polymorphia wrote: As a Christian, I naturally have no problem with Christian themes. But "Christian prog" is its own thing. For one, it's nearly all incredibly corny on a musical level. Secondly, I pretty much agree with Raff's comment that these bands tend to be pretty heavy handed, not necessarily in that they aren't vague enough, but that they're didactic in a way that's tone deaf (where, for instance, David Eugene Edwards is didactic in a way that's not tone deaf). And, like Raff, I would say the same about Neil Peart. Jon Anderson is different because his lyrics are far from didactic and they center around a lot of beautiful imagery and interesting diction.  At the same time, the idea that you are having religion "shoved down your throat" simply because someone has expressed it is incredibly silly to me. The artist cannot coerce you to do anything. But if you have paid your hard earned cash for an artists album, you essentially become a captive audience (unless you chuck it in the bin, sell it on ebay or whatever) hence the concept of having it shoved down your throat every time you listen. I ended up selling Transatlantics "The Whirlwind" because I couldn't stand listening to Morses - as you correctly say - corny, and exceedingly cringeworthy religious lyrics, and if I had known about that particular lyrical content before buying I wouldn't have bothered in the first place.   I had enough of all that kind of thing foisted on me without a say in whether I actually wanted to hear it or not it when I was a kid to last me more than one lifetime, I certainly don't want to hear more of it now as an adult when I have the choice to say 'No'.

But that choice to say "No" is exactly what makes you not a captive audience. At any point, you can turn the music off without fear of repercussion. And further, hearing it doesn't mean that you are being forced to believe it. I don't want to invalidate your early experiences with the church, but as an adult, you have agency. What is being expressed may be unsightly to you because of your experience or contrasting beliefs, but, ultimately, no one involved in the music is forcing you to continue listening, to believe what they are saying, or to adhere to Christian practices. 

Edited by Polymorphia - November 04 2018 at 08:26

Interesting discussion.

For myself, whilst I am an atheist, I have no issue with musicians being of any creed, including Christianity, and expressing their beliefs in their music.

What I do have an issue with is labelling certain music as "Christian Prog", or "Hinduistic Prog", or "Buddhistic Prog", or "Republican Prog", or "Democrat Prog", or whatever.

A musician should create their art and leave the listener to get out of it what they will, rather than prescribing a particular interpretation to the work of art.

As for Jon Anderson, I think it's fair to say that he has always described himself as "spiritual" and has never ascribed himself to any particular religion (albeit he is influenced by eastern religions, especially Buddhism)