Why such animus towards Christian prog?
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Topic: Why such animus towards Christian prog?
Posted By: Cylli Kat
Subject: Why such animus towards Christian prog?
Date Posted: November 03 2018 at 15:50
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I've noticed that there are some here that detest any whiff of Christianity in prog music. Saying things like "I don't want their religion shoved down my throat!", etc. While not taking into account that Tales from Topographic Oceans was based on Hinduism. All of Neil Peart's work is based on Humanism (which is its own worldview/religion), or the philosophies of Ayn Rand. Kim Petersen (King Diamond) is a Satanist. Dream Theater's Metropolis Pt. 2, Scenes From a Memory is about reincarnation (more Hinduism). Maudlin of the Well (Astral Projection). [Insert hundreds of examples here] No one complains about that subject matter... (Nor do I). No one complains that Jon Anderson is "forcing Hinduism down my throat", for example... I guess I don't understand the animus and backlash over Neal Morse, Iona/Dave Bainbridge, Ajalon, S91, Supernal Endgame or any other "Christian" prog.  Someone, please enlighten this idiot. (Taken from an old song title of mine: "Enlightened Idiots") ------------- [Insert Clever Phrase Here] |
Replies:
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 03 2018 at 15:59
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Maybe it's because Christianity is the overwhelmingly prevalent religion of Europe and the Americas and it's enough already. Maybe Hinduism is (or was at that time) a much more interesting, exotic and peaceful religion. Maybe right-wing extremism and Christianity go together like chocolate and peanut butter. Maybe more violence, persecution, rape and molestation has been at the hands of the Church than other beliefs. Or maybe it's something else. I certainly don't need spiritual zealotry in the music I listen to and rock has always been a music of rebellion. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 03 2018 at 16:03
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^ great reply ^^ great topic OP but you sort of answered your own question there. The examples you give are most decidely nonchristian in nature.. which do not celebrate (or ram down ones throat if you will) the greatness of God or Jesus or whatever.. but celebrate the joys of indivdual self reflection, discovery and sprituality and more importantly.. express it MUSICALLY where the lyrics are just a hanger on to the procedings. where people get turned off is when the music is secondary to the lyrcial message which is in my experience the fault of 'christian prog'.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: November 03 2018 at 16:11
I agree with the first sentence of your post - in this case, familiarity does breed contempt, and we in the West are definitely more aware of the shortcomings of the Christian religion than of those of other religions. However, though I cannot claim to be an expert on the history of non-Western nations, as far as I know other creeds have wrought their share of havoc - and that includes Buddhism, especially when used as a tool by rulers. Although I don't want to downplay the many nasty things (understatement of the century) done by the Catholic Church (remember that I was born and raised in Rome, so I've seen my share of stuff), other religions are no saints either (pardon the pun). To answer the OP, on a personal level, I think Neal Morse and their ilk are rather heavy-handed in their treatment of religion, which is definitely not the case with Jon Anderson. I dislike Neil Peart's Objectivist stage for much the same reason (as well as because of my own personal dislike of Ayn Rand's "philosophy"), and - though I left religion behind a long time ago - find Satanism objectionable, especially when coupled with far-right beliefs (as in a lot of black metal).
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Atavachron wrote:Posted By: flyingveepixie
Date Posted: November 03 2018 at 17:10
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Whenever I ask someone to write me lyrics for one of my songs I stipulate specifically no politics or religion please.... I suspect the reason I particularly don't like Christian lyrics in my own music or the music I like to listen to is a throwback to childhood when it literally WAS rammed down my throat and quite against my will at the time. I still shudder when I think back to those stuffy churches I was forced to attend on sundays with these po-faced, dismal preachers threatening hellfire if I didn't conform to certain religious ideals, and all those dreadful crappy hymns all these daft old bats would sing so seriously while standing there all dressed up like peacocks. I hated it. As for all the other stuff mentioned above, Jon Anderson, Neil Peart etc, none of that offends me at all.... |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: November 03 2018 at 17:27
| I just tend to like music that is more 'positive' in nature and not so much stuff that's more negative. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 03 2018 at 17:37
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^ nothing to me is more uplifting than gospel music which I have a lot of love for.. and perhaps the only love of mine musically that Raff still hasn't taken to yet... but that music is joyful and about full of life... that is something i think is missing in christian prog.. the difference.. the prog part. Over intellectualizing what in effect is a deeply and purely spiritual feeling that does not hold up well to being 'progified' and why earlier attempts at prog gospel.. most notably Tales From Topographic Oceans were so powerful on a spiritual level.. it didn't matter a damn what Jon was singing or what he and Steve meant the album to be about. .the listener took it what they wanted from it.. religion and spirituality are very individual and personal things. meaning a great deal to some.. and nothing to others. direct proselytizing might appeal to a few.. but as far as prog fans.. it will turn off a great many more thus the animus the op correctly observes that exists. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 03 2018 at 17:58
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I'm guessing Cylli is getting more than he bargained for. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Cylli Kat
Date Posted: November 03 2018 at 19:10
No, not at all. I didn't start the thread to start a debate, I was just hoping to gain some insight into why people have such animus towards "Christian" prog. I might end up adding my impressions and opinions if the thread gains some traction and it's worth my throwing my two coppers into the fray. And by that, I mean if my two cents will move the topic further along. Otherwise, it just ends up becoming a pissing contest, and that is not what I was looking for. ------------- [Insert Clever Phrase Here] |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: November 03 2018 at 21:32
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As a Christian, I naturally have no problem with Christian themes. But "Christian prog" is its own thing. For one, it's nearly all incredibly corny on a musical level. Secondly, I pretty much agree with Raff's comment that these bands tend to be pretty heavy handed, not necessarily in that they aren't vague enough, but that they're didactic in a way that's tone deaf (where, for instance, David Eugene Edwards is didactic in a way that's not tone deaf). And, like Raff, I would say the same about Neil Peart. Jon Anderson is different because his lyrics are far from didactic and they center around a lot of beautiful imagery and interesting diction. At the same time, the idea that you are having religion "shoved down your throat" simply because someone has expressed it is incredibly silly to me. The artist cannot coerce you to do anything.
------------- https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music 
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 03 2018 at 23:27
"Why such animus towards Christian prog?"Because people are scared...... -------------   
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Posted By: flyingveepixie
Date Posted: November 04 2018 at 01:08
But if you have paid your hard earned cash for an artists album, you essentially become a captive audience (unless you chuck it in the bin, sell it on ebay or whatever) hence the concept of having it shoved down your throat every time you listen. I ended up selling Transatlantics "The Whirlwind" because I couldn't stand listening to Morses - as you correctly say - corny, and exceedingly cringeworthy religious lyrics, and if I had known about that particular lyrical content before buying I wouldn't have bothered in the first place. I had enough of all that kind of thing foisted on me without a say in whether I actually wanted to hear it or not it when I was a kid to last me more than one lifetime, I certainly don't want to hear more of it now as an adult when I have the choice to say 'No'. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: November 04 2018 at 02:23
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Posted By: Davesax1965
Date Posted: November 04 2018 at 02:33
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I do recommend that the original poster perhaps watches some Christopher Hitchens videos to avail himself of a contrary argument to Christianity. ------------- |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: November 04 2018 at 08:20
I would contend that for people who have seriously contemplated religion, found it utterly lacking both spiritually and intellectually, and abandoned it altogether as man-made mythological nonsense preying upon fear and ignorance, the exact opposite is true. But hey, if you require imaginary support to live a good and honest life, then by all means surround yourself with totems and relics and crucifixes. As far as Christian prog, most of the themes are trite and forced, but if the instrumental sections are good, one can ignore the hokum. Like with the album The Master and Musician by Phil Keaggy, for instance. No lyrics, no preaching, great instrumentals, I listen. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 04 2018 at 08:23
great post...   ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: November 04 2018 at 08:25
That said, there is a pretty big correlation between people claiming the themes are being shoved down their throat and the lyrics being "tone deafly didactic," so I could agree on that level, if that's what you are referring to. And obviously, my heart goes out to you if you spent cash on a Transatlantic album.
------------- https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 04 2018 at 08:36
and another great post... make that a double as I just popped the top on the 2nd of Alexandria's finest... and it goes back to what i said earlier.. prog is all about the music... cover the religious themes with great music.. but do so as groups like Yes did.. obstusely and with an open ended nature.. and let the listener take from it what they will.. it can succeed with a wider audience that way as Yes and TFTO did. However make it lyrical centric and heavy handed and it will be sh*t upon for being what it is... evangelical.. expressing not what the artist feels but trying to ram what they feel to the listener and how they feel to the audience will rebel against it. And let's be honest.. prog fan is generally more agnostic or atheistic as a rule than you will find in most fans of general music forms. Thus again.. the animus that exists against 'christian prog' For myself.... I believe in what I believe in... and no idiot muso is either going to convert me to his viewpoint or point out to me the error of my ways in believing what I do. Much as I say about the intellectual component of prog.. if you want to be stimulated intellectually.. read a f**king book.. not the lyrics of some idiot musicians.. same with faith... I can figure that sh*t out on my own without the help of someone who should stick to playing his geetar and making music. not spreading the word of their version of faith.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Chaser
Date Posted: November 04 2018 at 12:03
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Interesting discussion. For myself, whilst I am an atheist, I have no issue with musicians being of any creed, including Christianity, and expressing their beliefs in their music. What I do have an issue with is labelling certain music as "Christian Prog", or "Hinduistic Prog", or "Buddhistic Prog", or "Republican Prog", or "Democrat Prog", or whatever. A musician should create their art and leave the listener to get out of it what they will, rather than prescribing a particular interpretation to the work of art. As for Jon Anderson, I think it's fair to say that he has always described himself as "spiritual" and has never ascribed himself to any particular religion (albeit he is influenced by eastern religions, especially Buddhism) ------------- Songs cast a light on you |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 04 2018 at 12:44
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hell yeah man..... that is what we have been missing... TRUMP PROG!!!!! Spouting christian values and the the inherent hypocracy that goes with the actions of those those spout them ... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: ForestFriend
Date Posted: November 04 2018 at 13:01
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I think it depends on how the lyrics are written. There's a difference between writing about the philosophical beliefs of a religion and writing about a religion. Singing about how you need to turn to Jesus to be saved is going to alienate people who don't believe in him, plus it's simply not an interesting understanding of what the religion teaches in the first place. I'm not saying that all Christian bands are like this, although looking through some Neal Morse lyrics, he's definitely got some like that. Something like Topographic Oceans, on the other hand, contains very few references to mythological figures. It's inspired by Hinduism, but you don't get reminded that Vishnu is your savior or anything like that. I think they try to make it a bit more universal; the lyrics are about people and their actions, rather than deities. ------------- https://borealkinship.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My prog band - Boreal Kinship |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: November 04 2018 at 13:16
I think the issue is that tagging oneself as "Christian Prog" (or any other religious affiliation for that matter) is an inherently constraining proposition, and one you can't deviate from to find fresh creativity. Kansas is a prime example of a band that had a Christian ethos (particularly the works of Kerry Livgren), but one that didn't necessarily spout dogma. As a listener, you could take from the lyrics what you wished and not feel it necessary to wash the Jesus Juice off your speakers. Another example outside the prog vein would be Cat Stevens. One could tell through his several albums in the 70s that he was on a spiritual journey, and much of his lyrics had a profundity and an ever-searching quality that coincided with a confused generation's own journey in the muddled times after the Vietnam War. But only once did Stevens really indicate his Islamic intentions ("The Boy With A Moon And Star On His Head" -- itself a masterful composition) -- there were more pronounced hints at Buddhism (the album titles Catch Bull at Four and Buddha and the Chocolate Box, for instance). Once he proclaimed himself Muslim, he hit a brick wall. He has returned after a few decades, but like nearly every artist of his age, no one is really interested in anything but the albums Tea for the Tillerman, Teaser and the Firecat, Catch Bull at Four, etc. I'm quite sure fans at his concerts are not yelling, "Hey Cat, play us a Muslim song!"
------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: November 04 2018 at 16:13
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Animosity towards "Christian prog" is nil novo sub sole. Just part of the daily portion of spiritual warfare. This has one positive side: there are people in the prog community who listen to "Christian prog" anyway. PA is paying these artists a service: Christian prog artists gain more respect from the secular audience than from people in the Christian scene, who pick their likings from the parallel universe of "Christian music", in which names like Casting Crowns or Michael W. Smith are top of the bill: never original, seldom annoying, often mediocre, always ad usum Delphini, as I wrote some years before. I have had the feeling that prog is shunned by most Christians more than once. There is quite a difference in lyrics as well. Neal Morse can be very preachy (nevertheless I like his lyrics), Iona are not. Next question: how would this forum react to Islamic prog, if such a thing came ever into existence? ------------- 
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Posted By: Squonk19
Date Posted: November 04 2018 at 17:14
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Actually, prog music is about the only genre that 'Christian' music has any chance of getting me thinking about a non-secular approach to life. By its nature, the prog I love is complex, atmospheric, thoughtful and 'spiritual' in a more general way. The only two I have any time for is Iona - who were able (in most tracks anyway) to be subtle and ambiguous with their lyrics and wrap them with Dave's superb arrangements, Troy's celtic pipes and Joanne's ethereal tones - and Neal Morse, who is now much more upfront (and yes, a bit preachy at times), but who has quite a handle of personal suffering and all those experiences that we all have at times, regardless of your viewpoint. However, I do prefer it when he shrouds it more in the execution - such as with Spock Beard's Snow, or The Great Nothing, rather than One and Testimony etc. 'Wind at My Back' still gets the hairs rising on the back of my neck, despite me being a cynical old codger these days! A lot of great prog music has a 'spiritual' layer to it, and not just the likes of Anderson/Yes or Gong/Hillage doing their usual uplifting stuff. So while a lot of non-prog 'Christian' music is frankly dreadful, let's not get too sniffy about the few examples of it in prog rock that can work regardless of your holistic view of the Universe. If a piece of music moves you - it's hitting a spot somewhere beyond the somatic response level. Right.... Time for a bit of NIB to give Old Nick a bit of air-time!  ------------- “Living in their pools, they soon forget about the sea.” |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 04 2018 at 18:49
Listen, I'm not going to get into a battle about religion and what I believe or don't, but comments like "But hey, if you require imaginary support to live a good and honest life, then by all means surround yourself with totems and relics and crucifixes."......Is flat out wrong to insinuate that's what I need to live a good life. Just because you don't understand or have the inner power to either believe, understand or try, does not mean that those of us that do, need imaginary support....It's only imaginary to you. As far as the music, label it what you want and the label is what creates the issue. Clearly people have a problem with "Christian prog" but really not "Hindu prog", whatever. Just because an artist might mention Jesus in his song, all of a sudden creates a volcano storm of negativity or "mythological nonsense"..but mention Buddah or another non-Christian deity, God or supreme being and we have no issues. People are scared.....Me, I can listen to all of it. -------------
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Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: November 04 2018 at 19:23
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Because generally it's pretty awful musically and lyrically. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: thwok
Date Posted: July 04 2019 at 10:17
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First thing is, I'm a devout Christian. That might be a deal breaker for some people; I'm okay with that. Second thing is, prog and metal in their many forms, are my favorite types of music. Just speaking personally, I don't avoid prog. PA is my FAVORITE website. I love music that's creative and combines elements in different ways, no matter what genre. I'm also a Casting Crowns fan, although most "CCM" bores me, so I will defend them. They're the most successful Christian band around. It's because they, along with a couple of regular collaborators, are the best songwriters in their genre. ------------- I am the funkiest man on the planet! |
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: July 04 2019 at 10:38
| I don't particularly like to label music by religion. For example, they don't label Jon Anderson as "Syncretic Prog" but he's essentially pushing that. I've posted on two early Christian bands that I like along with numerous secular bands, and people here were generally cool about it. If you like Christian prog, then voice your opinion. But, others here can and should certainly be encouraged to voice theirs. Just try to be respectful methinks. |
Posted By: patrickq
Date Posted: July 04 2019 at 13:39
Is there really that much animus? |
Posted By: 2dogs
Date Posted: July 08 2019 at 08:04
The idea of prog rock with Christian lyrics doesn't appeal to my imagination but I have been listening to Tangerine Dream's Dante albums Inferno, Purgatorio and Paradiso and bought a cheap prose version of The Divine Comedy with Dore's illustrations for my Kindle to better appreciate the concepts. I'm not yet all the way through the Inferno part but it's truly nightmarish and horrifying  .------------- "There is nothing new except what has been forgotten" - Marie Antoinette |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 08 2019 at 08:45
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I'm not a Christian (read 'pussy agnostic') but I can recommend a couple of overtly christian themed albums that would appeal to any music fan: The Whirlwind by Transatlantic and The Ten Commandments by Salamander. But that's nothing, wait till you hear Non Binary Vegan Prog.... ------------- 
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Posted By: patrickq
Date Posted: July 08 2019 at 09:28
| In the New Testament, specifically Acts and the epistles, it’s made clear that to be a good Christian is to be persecuted in one way or another. So I think it’s natural to perceive the prog-fan community’s lack of excitement over Christian prog as hatred (or some synonym for “hatred”). |
Posted By: Argo2112
Date Posted: July 08 2019 at 10:02
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For me one of the things with Christian music in general is it's not a style of music. It's rock, pop, metal, whatever with Christian lyrics. Gospel is a little different because the are certain characteristics & harmonies that are unique to the genera. When referring to a musical style, you should be able to listen to the music without lyrics & identify what type of music it is, ( jazz, rock, county...) As far as Christian rock/ prog goes I don't really have a problem with it unless I feel like I'm being clubbed over the head with the message. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: July 08 2019 at 12:09
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I'm an agnostic atheist/ soft atheist/ negative atheist, or call me just an atheist or agnostic, or whatever term. I was raised going to church and married a Born gain Christian. I still rather think of myself as a cultural Anglican Christian. I love lots of religious music inspired by different faiths. There's a lot of "classical" (to use the term broadly) music of the Christian ilk that I love (Tallis has always been a particular favourite of mine). I love choral music, chants, Christian inspired jazz and plenty of Christian folk and psychedelic music. That said, I wouldn't say that I'm a fan of Christian Prog, especially that which draws on a form of American fundamentalism and a vein of "Christian contemporary music". It's not just the subject matter, it's the music I've heard which reminds me of people like Michael W. Smith. Since Transatlantic was mentioned and Dream Theater and Neal Morse, I dislike it musically. I really disliked the kind of worship music that is played in many contemporary evangelical churches, but love the old hymns such as "Jerusalem"(words by William Blake). There is lot of really lovely spiritual music out there, and I tend to dislike much which comes across as really preachy to me, particularly in an American bible thumping way which I quite often associate with all sorts of bad things. To me this sounds much more deeply spiritual and profound than the likes of Neal Morse. And I love music such as this: I do find religions quite ridiculous, but there is something of the traditions that still appeal to me. By the way, I did a little "60s and up Christian themed albums" topic about nine year ago (edited my posts as the old way I would embed videos caused flash objects to try to install): http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=72354" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=72354 Some lovely music in that topic (some broken links and vids). ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: July 08 2019 at 14:26
| Here's the issue! In fantasy literature Christians were leaders (CS Lewis, Tolkien, Rowling). In rock, these days Christian bands are followers. You like Dream Theater? Listen to so and so. You like Metallica? Try such and such. That's the problem. There are a few early exceptions. Every band should try to define their own sound. The less overly dramatic, the better. The more philosophically interesting, the better. The less cookie cutter, the better. The more dynamic, innovative, and ORIGINAL, the better ... I digress. |
Posted By: TheH
Date Posted: July 08 2019 at 14:30
Sadly you are right here, most of this stuff is simply embarrassing.. The only band I really love in this direction is IONA, simply Music sung to God instead about him..
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: July 08 2019 at 15:14
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Personally i don't care either way. I love Christian music. I love Satanic music. I love Hindu music. Zoroastrian etc as long as i like the music itself. Lyrics have always been secondary but even so i still love to hear the philosophies of others even if they are based on orthodox dogmatic principles. -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 08 2019 at 15:23
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As Nogbad said above....I haven't heard any that I like enough to get into. ps: and I find it hard to believe that Micky is a fan of Gospel music......but I'm sure he'll see my post and claim that he is. ;) ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Chaser
Date Posted: July 08 2019 at 15:37
I agree with the thrust of this argument. I've got no issue with music being influenced by almost anything, but I do object to the idea of labelling music according to a particular religious belief. We all know that Jon Anderson's spiritual beliefs (Hindu, Buddhist, or eastern, I'm never completely sure what Jon's religious belief is exactly) influence his music. I've got no issue with that, but if Jon started labelling his music as "Hindu Rock" or something then I would have an issue. Music, or any art, should speak for itself, and shouldn't need to be labelled by the artist based on their religious beliefs. So, I have no objection to someone creating music that's influenced by their Christianity (even though I'm an atheist), but I do object to the term "Christian Prog". ------------- Songs cast a light on you |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 08 2019 at 16:18
To me, religion and spiritual is an individual thing for you and I to work with, and not something to expound on the public as the way to be ... I'm actually tired of "enlightened half lights", with messages that say absolutely nothing ... and will quote a book, that is known to be the worst translation of the original material ever done ... a complete corruption of the original material ... and we believe in it! It's not animus ... it's that a lot of those folks are believing in a fantasy and idealistic something or other (that they can not even describe!), because they are not artists of the heart with the gumption to stand up and not be afraid! There is, however, a large group of folks that are very serious about their spiritual material ... I would not consider Frank Perry's work a message about your spirituality and mine ... but it does give you the option ... can you sit through it and work with it after? I, personally, do not think that Neal Morse knows that difference. he comes off just like another guy on a pulpit ... he can see things and we can't. Thus we have to follow and buy their music! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: July 08 2019 at 16:43
Geoff Mann (RIP) was one of the finest lyricists to ever put words to music, let alone words to music in a prog rock song. Twelfth Night, anyone? ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 08 2019 at 16:54
 ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 08 2019 at 16:59
goddamn right I will... and f**k yeah man I love me some Gospel. Unclouded Day stirs my soul like very few things can.. not even a redhead with f**k me eyes... it ain't about the religion man.. it is the spirit and ones soul... and a sense of oneness with God and though i don't get the itch that often .. that music really itches that scratch. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: July 08 2019 at 21:13
| In the 1980s, there was a book that said ... if you like this type of music in the secular world then try such and such band in the "Christian rock" genre. The problem is that 9 times out of 10, the music was a second rate knock off of secular artists. This is wrong on many levels. 1. Christian rock and dare I say Christian prog can stand on its own two feet. Some early bands defined their own sound. 2. Christian themes deserve to be approached with the same originality and craftsmanship as found in other art forms (e.g., fantasy literature has 3 heavyweights as previously mentioned ). It is not fair to Christian listeners to have crummy music (with exceptions) foisted upon them purely in the name of religion (read self righteousness). On the other hand, write great music with Christian themes and both Christians and non-Christians will find something good in it. Then you've hit your mark. |
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: July 08 2019 at 21:31
| It's sad that the greatest Christian music was written in the baroque period. Handel and Bach are at the top of my list of composers, and I would much rather listen to Handel's Messiah or Bach's Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring (or his amazing fugues, lute preludes, etc.) than 99% of the Christian music of today. It was and still is some of the most complex and awe inspiring music ever written. |
Posted By: 2dogs
Date Posted: July 08 2019 at 22:22
You have a good point there. There are a few Requiems I enjoy although these are either without lyrics or sung in Latin which to me amounts to the same thing. Laibach’s Jesus Christ Superstars album is quite fun but is more about their view of Christianity than promoting it e.g. there’s a tune sung from the viewpoint of Judas explaining how it was preordained and essential that he betray Jesus in order to fulfil God’s master plan - which makes me think more of the convoluted nature of religious logic than feel anything spiritual. ------------- "There is nothing new except what has been forgotten" - Marie Antoinette |
Posted By: patrickq
Date Posted: July 08 2019 at 23:08
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A truly great song by a Christian band. The message is 100% Christian, I am 0% Christian, but they achieve exactly what they’re attempting. And I don’t think this is really down-throat shoving... is it? |
Posted By: 2dogs
Date Posted: July 09 2019 at 21:45
No, that is fine, not too obvious. I like this one describing a vision even though it sounds like a text straight out of the Bible, it’s very evocative. ------------- "There is nothing new except what has been forgotten" - Marie Antoinette |