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is Toyah prog-related ?

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lucas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: is Toyah prog-related ?
    Posted: June 07 2010 at 17:00
Toyah looks like a punk but she performs a music somewhat artsy. I am currrently listening to her 'warrior rock' live album from 1982, and the genre it fits is not really clear for me : somewhere between Siouxsie and The Banshees and the most artsy Kate Bush. It has the energy of punk, the melody of Sally Oldfield, and the intricacy of Kate Bush or Dalbello. Anyone here who was exposed to her music and thinks she should be evaluated for PA ?
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2010 at 18:31
For all the album's that are impled by your description (ie those recorded as Toyah the band). No; though The Vow from Love Is The Law is baroque pop bordering on symphonic which could make it prog related I guess.
 
However for her solo stuff (recored as Toyah Wilcox) -  Prostitute and Ophelia's Shadow (and possibly Dreamchild) are more credible as Prog Related. Ophelia's Shadow is the best contender as it is essentially Sunday All Over The World part 2 and features pretty much the same line-up (Wilcox, Fripp, Gunn, Beavis)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WalterDigsTunes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2010 at 19:19
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Ophelia's Shadow is the best contender as it is essentially Sunday All Over The World part 2 and features pretty much the same line-up (Wilcox, Fripp, Gunn, Beavis)


Why, that looks tantalizing. Does it sound SaotW-ish?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2010 at 19:24
^ honest answer is "I don't know" - I've recently found a used copy of Sunday and it hasn't arrived yet, so I've only heard Ophelia's Shadow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WalterDigsTunes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2010 at 19:25
Keep me posted once you get a chance to compare Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AtomicCrimsonRush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2011 at 00:06
I certainly hear some PR in her music - fantastic artist - Love her
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2011 at 03:15
Prog related? she must be as she's married to Bob FrippWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Windhawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2011 at 03:26

Websites I work with:

http://www.progressor.net
http://www.houseofprog.com

My profile on Mixcloud:
https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2011 at 10:30
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Prog related? she must be as she's married to Bob FrippWink

Beat me to it.  LOL  Toyah is Fripp-related.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2011 at 13:56
Her last album is entitled 'In the court of the crimson queen', a wink to an obscure prog rock album...
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2011 at 14:18
^ I have it, it's rather disapointing (unfortunately)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote someone_else Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2011 at 14:39
She has done some collaboration with Tony Banks in the 80's (a song called Lion of Symmetry on Tony Banks' album Soundtracks).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FunkyM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2011 at 10:10
Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Toyah looks like a punk but she performs a music somewhat artsy. I am currrently listening to her 'warrior rock' live album from 1982, and the genre it fits is not really clear for me : somewhere between Siouxsie and The Banshees and the most artsy Kate Bush. It has the energy of punk, the melody of Sally Oldfield, and the intricacy of Kate Bush or Dalbello. Anyone here who was exposed to her music and thinks she should be evaluated for PA ?


I think this is a pretty apt description and I definitely would consider some of the stuff on her early albums related to Prog-Related. Anthem and especially The Changeling have a number of tracks that sound like Bowie meets Kate Bush. The keyboard line on the song "Blue Meanings" reminds me of something you'd find in early neo-prog.

The first two albums especially try some strange things. Not all of the songs work, but enough that I'd recommend them to the curious.

Ophelia's Shadow does sound very close to Sunday All Over The World's Kneeling At The Shrine, which sounds a bit like 80's era King Crimson. Both albums are quite enjoyable, IMO. Prostitute, which came before the two aforementioned albums, is also worth checking out.


Edited by FunkyM - December 12 2011 at 10:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ProgressToChange Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 08:04
Just wanted to revisit this thread with some amazing tracks by this lovely artist.

























Edited by ProgressToChange - April 24 2012 at 08:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2012 at 16:23
Vocally speaking, she may be seen as the missing link between Kate Bush and Diamanda Galas. 
 
She is not only Fripp-related, she is also Banks-related :
 
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AtomicCrimsonRush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2012 at 02:16
Oh how I love Toyah. I have all her albums so she must be prog! Wink


Try my Spotify channel



and try her albums

Changeling
Anthem
Love is the Law 
Phoenix
Minx
Court of the Crimson Queen

I might just start an appreciation thread in the Music related section

She has an awesome voice and is hot to boot, and I was listening to her in the 80s as a teen and now still am enamoured by her wonderful brand of music that is hard to categorise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AtomicCrimsonRush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2012 at 02:32



To most Americans, Toyah Willcox is either an unknown quantity, or Mrs. Robert Fripp. To the rest of the world she is perhaps thought of as an 80s punk pop Princess that graduated into TV and films. Either perception sells her seriously short. Toyah is a creative dynamo equally adept on the screen, stage, studio, and in print. For the prog fan, her CDs feature such players as Phil Spalding, Simon Phillips, Trey Gunn, Tony Geballe, Adrian Lee, and the aforementioned Mr. Fripp. It is ProgSheet's distinct pleasure to give you part one of a conversation with Toyah Willcox...



1992 - 1993 - GIGS AND APPEARANCES
With Kiss of Reality. German progressive-rock/jazz band with Toyah on vocals. Toyah Willcox vocals, David Pittaway electric & acoustic guitars, Jörg Schwickerath electric/acoustic drums and synthesiser, Volker Rehn stick  
      

       

TOYAH BY DEAN STOCKINGSTOYAH BY DEAN STOCKINGSTOYAH BY DEAN STOCKINGSTOYAH BY DEAN STOCKINGSTOYAH BY DEAN STOCKINGS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote vivoactive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2018 at 05:22
May I resurrect this thread? 

Toyah is IMO definitely prog-related, but not only a prog artist. I am not a huge fan of hers, although I have listened to all of her albums including some unreleased stuff. She might be more of a post-punk artist in the beginning, with some prog elements. Interestingly she has experimented with a wide variety of genres including post-punk/new wave/gothic pop (albums: Sheep Farming In Barnet [1979]; The Blue Meaning [1980]; Anthem [1981]; The Changeling [1982] and Love Is The Law [1983]). These are her first albums with the band named Toyah. Definitely more (post-)punk than prog, there are some neat tracks, I adore her early work. 

Toyah also experiments with pop music. Her albums Minx [1985]; Desire [1987] and In the Court of the Crimson Queen [2008] are more of pop/pop-rock albums. I do not mean anything bad with the "pop" label, in fact I do not think any Toyah album is bad. 

My favourite albums by Toyah are these with the most prog-influences. 

Ophelia's Shadow [1991] is my favourite Toyah album and it is the closest thing to prog. In fact I started listening to the album because of the interesting album cover. It is musically what I really like. Kneeling Through The Shrine, also released in 1991, but as a band called Sunday All Over The World, is like a second part of Ophelia's Shadow. Both albums feature collaborations with Robert Fripp and Trey Gunn. Trey Gunn has a song with Toyah called "Symbiotic" and Tony Banks (Genesis) has "Lion Of Symmetry", also featuring Toyah. That said, these are the most prog-works featuring Toyah and IMO they are really good. Too bad Ophelia's Shadow has been banned all over YouTube and it is unavailable to be listened for free. But it's worth it. 

Toyah is more of a singer/vocalist and songwriter rather than a musician. However she has played a plenty of instruments on her experimental album Prostitute [1988]. The album reminds me a lot of Danielle Dax (who is also one of my favourites, who is also prog-related IMO). Funny thing is that both Toyah and Danielle Dax are prog-related and Fripp-related (Toyah is Robert Fripp's wife and Danielle Dax is featured on Fripp's album "The League Of Gentlemen" on the track "Minor Man". I have read somewhere that Dax has been a girlfriend of Fripp, but I don't know if that is true, it is quite unimportant). 

Another two projects featuring the vocals of Toyah are Kiss Of Reality - Kiss Of Reality [1993] and This Fragile Moment - This Fragile Moment [2009]. Both albums are great and quite proggy. 

Toyah has released an album called Dreamchild (re-released as Phoenix). It features electronic pop songs with a prog vibe. I really like Dreamchild and some days ago I found out that Toyah has another unreleased prog-related gem, called Eternity or Madhatter. It follows the Dreamchild vibe. The track "Satellite Whores" might serve as a great example on what I mean with electronic pop/prog rock mixture. I really enjoyed this 8 minute track:


So, definitely Toyah IS prog-related in my opinion. But she is rather an amazing vocalist than a prog-musician. 


Edited by vivoactive - August 17 2018 at 07:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2018 at 06:18
One of her greatest hits: "It's a Mystery" was written by Hawkwind keyboardist Keith Hale.

Edited by TheH - August 16 2018 at 06:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2018 at 06:21
Originally posted by AtomicCrimsonRush AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

...
To the rest of the world she is perhaps thought of as an 80s punk pop Princess that graduated into TV and films. 
...

I would think that we should clean this up ... she started out in theater and film ... and she was in two of the best DEREK JARMAN films, JUBILEE and TEMPEST.

BTW, even Wiki is missing information on her ... THE LADY AND THE TIGER is not even listed, and RF is on it. I have that album, still!

My thoughts are that her punk'ish look, made her a better fit for music than theater or film. There were not many film makers at the time doing stuff way out there, and both film and theater, even as creative as they can be, tend to be totally stiff and boring, and repetitive. On stage, with a band, TOYAH could stretch out if she wanted to and did. And she could use her "fashion" sense a lot more.  


Edited by moshkito - May 17 2020 at 10:30
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