is Toyah prog-related ?
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Topic: is Toyah prog-related ?
Posted By: lucas
Subject: is Toyah prog-related ?
Date Posted: June 07 2010 at 17:00
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Toyah looks like a punk but she performs a music somewhat artsy. I am currrently listening to her 'warrior rock' live album from 1982, and the genre it fits is not really clear for me : somewhere between Siouxsie and The Banshees and the most artsy Kate Bush. It has the energy of punk, the melody of Sally Oldfield, and the intricacy of Kate Bush or Dalbello. Anyone here who was exposed to her music and thinks she should be evaluated for PA ? ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Replies:
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 07 2010 at 18:31
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For all the album's that are impled by your description (ie those recorded as Toyah the band). No; though The Vow from Love Is The Law is baroque pop bordering on symphonic which could make it prog related I guess.
However for her solo stuff (recored as Toyah Wilcox) - Prostitute and Ophelia's Shadow (and possibly Dreamchild) are more credible as Prog Related. Ophelia's Shadow is the best contender as it is essentially http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=9610 - Sunday All Over The World part 2 and features pretty much the same line-up (Wilcox, Fripp, Gunn, Beavis) ------------- What? |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 08 2010 at 19:19
Why, that looks tantalizing. Does it sound SaotW-ish? |
Dean wrote:Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 08 2010 at 19:24
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^ honest answer is "I don't know" - I've recently found a used copy of Sunday and it hasn't arrived yet, so I've only heard Ophelia's Shadow. ------------- What? |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 08 2010 at 19:25
Keep me posted once you get a chance to compare  |
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: July 23 2011 at 00:06
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I certainly hear some PR in her music - fantastic artist - Love her ------------- 
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 23 2011 at 03:15
Prog related? she must be as she's married to Bob Fripp
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Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: July 23 2011 at 03:26
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------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 23 2011 at 10:30
Beat me to it.  Toyah is Fripp-related.------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: July 23 2011 at 13:56
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Her last album is entitled 'In the court of the crimson queen', a wink to an obscure prog rock album... ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 23 2011 at 14:18
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^ I have it, it's rather disapointing (unfortunately) ------------- What? |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: July 23 2011 at 14:39
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She has done some collaboration with Tony Banks in the 80's (a song called Lion of Symmetry on Tony Banks' album Soundtracks). ------------- 
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Posted By: FunkyM
Date Posted: December 12 2011 at 10:10
I think this is a pretty apt description and I definitely would consider some of the stuff on her early albums related to Prog-Related. Anthem and especially The Changeling have a number of tracks that sound like Bowie meets Kate Bush. The keyboard line on the song "Blue Meanings" reminds me of something you'd find in early neo-prog. The first two albums especially try some strange things. Not all of the songs work, but enough that I'd recommend them to the curious. Ophelia's Shadow does sound very close to Sunday All Over The World's Kneeling At The Shrine, which sounds a bit like 80's era King Crimson. Both albums are quite enjoyable, IMO. Prostitute, which came before the two aforementioned albums, is also worth checking out. |
Posted By: ProgressToChange
Date Posted: April 24 2012 at 08:04
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Just wanted to revisit this thread with some amazing tracks by this lovely artist. |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: May 04 2012 at 16:23
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Vocally speaking, she may be seen as the missing link between Kate Bush and Diamanda Galas. She is not only Fripp-related, she is also Banks-related : ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: July 02 2012 at 02:16
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Oh how I love Toyah. I have all her albums so she must be prog! Try my Spotify channel http://open.spotify.com/user/1231444585/playlist/0ovPIbnTaKFwMJFN3Wnf28" rel="nofollow - Toyah and try her albums Changeling Anthem Love is the Law Phoenix Minx Court of the Crimson Queen I might just start an appreciation thread in the Music related section She has an awesome voice and is hot to boot, and I was listening to her in the 80s as a teen and now still am enamoured by her wonderful brand of music that is hard to categorise. -------------
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Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: July 02 2012 at 02:32
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from: http://progsheet1.hypermart.net/toyah1.html" rel="nofollow - http://progsheet1.hypermart.net/toyah1.html To most Americans, Toyah Willcox is either an unknown quantity, or Mrs. Robert Fripp. To the rest of the world she is perhaps thought of as an 80s punk pop Princess that graduated into TV and films. Either perception sells her seriously short. Toyah is a creative dynamo equally adept on the screen, stage, studio, and in print. For the prog fan, her CDs feature such players as Phil Spalding, Simon Phillips, Trey Gunn, Tony Geballe, Adrian Lee, and the aforementioned Mr. Fripp. It is ProgSheet's distinct pleasure to give you part one of a conversation with Toyah Willcox... http://www.toyahwillcox.com/gigs-90s.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.toyahwillcox.com/gigs-90s.html
With Kiss of Reality. German progressive-rock/jazz band with Toyah on vocals. Toyah Willcox vocals, David Pittaway electric & acoustic guitars, Jörg Schwickerath electric/acoustic drums and synthesiser, Volker Rehn stick 
       
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Posted By: vivoactive
Date Posted: August 16 2018 at 05:22
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May I resurrect this thread? Toyah is IMO definitely prog-related, but not only a prog artist. I am not a huge fan of hers, although I have listened to all of her albums including some unreleased stuff. She might be more of a post-punk artist in the beginning, with some prog elements. Interestingly she has experimented with a wide variety of genres including post-punk/new wave/gothic pop (albums: Sheep Farming In Barnet [1979]; The Blue Meaning [1980]; Anthem [1981]; The Changeling [1982] and Love Is The Law [1983]). These are her first albums with the band named Toyah. Definitely more (post-)punk than prog, there are some neat tracks, I adore her early work. Toyah also experiments with pop music. Her albums Minx [1985]; Desire [1987] and In the Court of the Crimson Queen [2008] are more of pop/pop-rock albums. I do not mean anything bad with the "pop" label, in fact I do not think any Toyah album is bad. My favourite albums by Toyah are these with the most prog-influences. Ophelia's Shadow [1991] is my favourite Toyah album and it is the closest thing to prog. In fact I started listening to the album because of the interesting album cover. It is musically what I really like. Kneeling Through The Shrine, also released in 1991, but as a band called Sunday All Over The World, is like a second part of Ophelia's Shadow. Both albums feature collaborations with Robert Fripp and Trey Gunn. Trey Gunn has a song with Toyah called "Symbiotic" and Tony Banks (Genesis) has "Lion Of Symmetry", also featuring Toyah. That said, these are the most prog-works featuring Toyah and IMO they are really good. Too bad Ophelia's Shadow has been banned all over YouTube and it is unavailable to be listened for free. But it's worth it. Toyah is more of a singer/vocalist and songwriter rather than a musician. However she has played a plenty of instruments on her experimental album Prostitute [1988]. The album reminds me a lot of Danielle Dax (who is also one of my favourites, who is also prog-related IMO). Funny thing is that both Toyah and Danielle Dax are prog-related and Fripp-related (Toyah is Robert Fripp's wife and Danielle Dax is featured on Fripp's album "The League Of Gentlemen" on the track "Minor Man". I have read somewhere that Dax has been a girlfriend of Fripp, but I don't know if that is true, it is quite unimportant). Another two projects featuring the vocals of Toyah are Kiss Of Reality - Kiss Of Reality [1993] and This Fragile Moment - This Fragile Moment [2009]. Both albums are great and quite proggy. Toyah has released an album called Dreamchild (re-released as Phoenix). It features electronic pop songs with a prog vibe. I really like Dreamchild and some days ago I found out that Toyah has another unreleased prog-related gem, called Eternity or Madhatter. It follows the Dreamchild vibe. The track "Satellite Whores" might serve as a great example on what I mean with electronic pop/prog rock mixture. I really enjoyed this 8 minute track: So, definitely Toyah IS prog-related in my opinion. But she is rather an amazing vocalist than a prog-musician.
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Posted By: TheH
Date Posted: August 16 2018 at 06:18
| One of her greatest hits: "It's a Mystery" was written by Hawkwind keyboardist Keith Hale. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: August 16 2018 at 06:21
I would think that we should clean this up ... she started out in theater and film ... and she was in two of the best DEREK JARMAN films, JUBILEE and TEMPEST. BTW, even Wiki is missing information on her ... THE LADY AND THE TIGER is not even listed, and RF is on it. I have that album, still! My thoughts are that her punk'ish look, made her a better fit for music than theater or film. There were not many film makers at the time doing stuff way out there, and both film and theater, even as creative as they can be, tend to be totally stiff and boring, and repetitive. On stage, with a band, TOYAH could stretch out if she wanted to and did. And she could use her "fashion" sense a lot more.
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: August 16 2018 at 06:34
| There are no more prog related additions, so just forget about it. :) |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: August 16 2018 at 06:52
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She's pop and proud of it for gods sake. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: August 16 2018 at 10:17
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Check out The Humans 2011 album, "Sugar Rush". Toyah's vocals are fantastic, Bill Rieflin on drums and some guy also named Fripp plays on some of the tracks ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 16 2018 at 10:31
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^ I edited your post to a hyperlink as you shouldn't try to embed videos like that any longer (changed quite a long time ago). The video won't show up, and it will try to install flash objects on the computer, harmless, but some people have mistaken those for viruses. When you embed, you put the tube tags only surrounding the unique identifier (the combination of letters and numbers after v=, which in that case is oaf4JD4xw3A). So instead of, I'm adding spaces to break it [tube ] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaf4JD4xw3A [/ tube] , you use [tube ]oaf4JD4xw3A [/ tube] (without the spaces to make it clear for others that may not know how to do it). |
Posted By: vivoactive
Date Posted: August 16 2018 at 11:00
That is actually alright. I wanted to discuss Toyah's progressive pop/rock albums rather than beg for her inclusion :)
Forgot about The Humans. Quite a great project I think. Need to listen to more of them. They already have three albums and an EP, right? I quite enjoyed "We Are The Humans".
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 16 2018 at 11:14
^ I didn't take it that you were requesting inclusion, and get that it was about discussion, but just to set the record straight on our additions process (even if it doesn't really need straightening). Incidentally, I'm not that familiar with Toyah, so I don't have much to add to any Toyah discussion, but it seemed an excellent post of yours vivoactive. It might be one that we should consider for addition, by the way (would want to familiarise myself with past topics and it may have been formally considered before).
Maybe you are being rather tongue-in-cheek, but we haven't stopped allowing Prog Related additions (at least not that I've heard). It's not easy getting into the category generally and it should be for exceptional cases. For any who wish to formally propose a band or artist for Prog Related or Proto Prog, a case should be made for it fitting as many of the factors mentioned in the http://www.progarchives.com/subgenre.asp?style=38" rel="nofollow - Prog Related Definition (CLICK) , a thread with a good argument plus lots of relevant samples if possible in Suggest New Bands and Artists should be made (links to info and music is good) http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=96630" rel="nofollow - CLICK for more info , and technically a Special Collaborator should back the addition and be willing to do the addition if accepted. It helps if the suggested in Suggest New Bands and Artists topic gets lots of support (and it helps to correlate all past topics on it if we're not looking at new material to get a wide variety of thoughts). For those that haven't read it and are considering formally suggesting new bands or artists to Prog Related, here is the official http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=73146&PID=3942761#3942761" rel="nofollow - Prog Related Submissions Policy (CLICK) There's quite a lot of music that I consider to be Prog Related that is not in this site, but that doesn't mean that I think that it should be included. A lot of what I consider to be Prog Related does not tick enough boxes, so just because I consider something to be Prog Related does not mean that I think it fits the category really well. Anyway, back to the Toyah discussion. |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: August 16 2018 at 11:25
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Since most in the OP are not active posters anymore, sure why not I say add her........Everything is prog-related. -------------   
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Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: August 16 2018 at 11:55
Thanks for letting me know...tried it the way you suggested but the vid won't play  ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 16 2018 at 12:04
| I edited it to fix it. There was URL code in the post, so I guess when you edited it, my hyperlinking (the url tags) was left in. |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: August 16 2018 at 12:07
 ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: August 17 2018 at 01:58
there is no way that a woman that turned the Crimsonian King Sir Robert Fripp into a wussy and made him lick her boots should be included on PA
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Posted By: vivoactive
Date Posted: August 17 2018 at 02:43
Some very kind words here! I have been reading Prog Archives for years and finally registered. As for Toyah, being the wife of the King Crimson mastermind, Robert Fripp, is a good criteria. I also did not mention her collaboration with Fripp and The League of Crafty Guitarists on "The Lady Or The Tiger", thanks for reminding me, moshkito. I might suggest Toyah as an addition. I will give some examples of proggy tracks by Toyah: Ophelia's Shadow shows the amazing vocals of Toyah. Unlike her first albums where she often screams and shouts (in a punkish way), and unlike her pop stuff where she just sings, here you can hear her amazing feminine vocals. Since it is not available on YouTube (it has been blocked for unknown reasons), I am posting a Deezer link. The entire album is worth it and there is no single filler track. However, I do not think this is an easy album to get into. The keyboard intro of the title track (Ophelia's Shadow) is played by Gordon Haskell (who also played on "In The Wake Of Poseidon" and "Lizard" by King Crimson. At the end of the album, the track Lords Of The Never Known, features a piano solo by Keith Tippett which is amazing imo. The tracks "Brilliant Day" and "Lords of the never known" are outtakes from Toyah and Robert Fripp's band "Sunday All Over The World". https://www.deezer.com/us/album/11310322 "Kneeling Through The Shrine" by Sunday All Over The World is nice too. The band's first name was Fripp Fripp. My favourite tracks are "If I Were A Man" and "Answered With A Smile". Here are the two prog tracks I have mentioned: Tony Banks - Lion Of Symmetry and Trey Gunn - Symbiotic. Amazing vocals! "We Are The Humans" by The Humans is an interesting tracks, at first it reminded me of Lisa Dalbello (any fans?) Here is also her collaboration with Robert Fripp on "The Lady Or The Tiger". I have never paid attention to it, but hey, there is Fripp! This year Toyah released an EP "Four From Toyah (birthday Edition)" which I downloaded and put on my phone. When shuffling the song "Who Let The Beast Out" played and at first I thought it was a Rush song. It might sound nothing like Rush but that was my first association. Again I am posting a Dizzer link, because it is unavailable on YT. https://www.deezer.com/us/album/63627752 And last but not least, I want to post two songs from the Dreamchild/Eternity sessions. I have already postet "Satellite Whores" which is nice indeed, the second part is really interesting. Now I am posting "Dreamchild" and "Phoenix". Phoenix features these jazz elements which made me love it. These songs have a very low sound quality there... well... it is better than nothing. And right before I decided to finish my post I saw the track "Tone Poem" in the YouTube search results. Alright, that track IS amazing! This "Hello I am Toyah Willcox" is not available on the album version of the song. This might be sort of a radio rip. Hope you will enjoy the beautiful proggy wife. Still, I am not a really big fan but some songs by Toyah are just amazing! That said... Yeah, I am definitely into Toyah.
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: August 17 2018 at 08:25
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"As for Toyah, being the wife of the King Crimson mastermind, Robert Fripp, is a good criteria" Well, not really. But anyway my band is playing at our local county show later this month. 2 hours later on the same stage is Toyah, it will be interesting to hear her. Maybe Bobby Fripp will turn up as well.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 17 2018 at 10:23
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Thanks for such a thoughtful post, vivoactive. Just for my own pleasure (at least at this time), I will be listening to the music you posted. Really unrelated, but one of my favourites into Post-Punk and synth avenues is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHRUJo0G2i4" rel="nofollow - Phew . |
Posted By: vivoactive
Date Posted: August 19 2018 at 13:15
Interesting album! I like 80s post-punk a lot, although there are a lot of artists/bands that sound cheap and uninspired. Never heard of Phew before, I like it musically. The instrumentation reminds me of a mixture of The Cure and Emiliana Torrini's album Love In The Time Of Science. Vocals are great too, whispery, although I don't understand a word. Back to Toyah, let's have a Kiss of Reality in This Fragile Moment! The first one is from 1993, the second one - from 2009. 16 years in between and her voice still sounds great! The Kiss Of Reality album contains some instrumental tracks, sometimes I just need to listen to the instrumentals of any album, no matter how much I like the vocals. Also I love instrumental tracks. That said, both albums are worth listening! I posted my favourite songs from both albums! ------------- ________ ...that the storm really doesn't matter until the storm begins to get you down |
Posted By: vivoactive
Date Posted: May 17 2020 at 09:02
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I think it's time for the inclusion of Toyah on PA. ........... RIP Bill Rieflin
------------- ________ ...that the storm really doesn't matter until the storm begins to get you down |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: May 17 2020 at 10:14
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https://www.facebook.com/toyahofficial/videos/889796161493169/" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/toyahofficial/videos/889796161493169/
Bob Fripp sent this to me by email the other day. ------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!! |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: May 17 2020 at 10:35
Quite clearly prog related on the strength of that video! BTW, does he sleep in that bloody suit? ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: May 17 2020 at 12:03
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These types of posts are always great for at least exposing us to an artist. From what i've heard she's not eligible for inclusion here but she is definitely an artist that was bold, daring and passionate about her craft. -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: May 17 2020 at 13:16
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Toyah who..? I can honestly say I have never heard a single song from her....I will rectify that by playing a few of the above video links. I ditto Lazland's question, "Does he sleep in that bloody suit." And how in the hell did a prog nerd like Mr Fripp end up with a woman like that? ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: May 17 2020 at 14:44
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I ashamed to say I've not heard much Toyah. I have the album Anthem on vinyl from back in the day, and I liked it, but stopped there. Not quite sure why. I've got a lot of catching up to do. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 17 2020 at 15:06
Never a rose without the prick... ------------- 
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: May 17 2020 at 15:08
In fact, said Mr Nerd was apparently one for the ladies in his yoof. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |