Zeppelin and the Occult

Reed Lover wrote: Hangedman wrote: Just a comment, being an agnost i find it astounding that someone who is athiest to call someone who is religious an idiot or vice versa. Isnt it just as likely for a god to exist as for the universe to just exist for no reason? Both require something to be created out of nothing, which is scientifically impossible. So both require a measure of faith, which is the defining word of religion. Please when critisizing someone else's beliefs please be tolerant. And remember although i dont believe it, even Steven Hawkings big bang theory requires divine intervention, but then Hawkings doesnt believe in it himself. Who says the Universe is created out of nothing. What is nothing? Does nothing exist? Who made Stephen Hawking the authority on the Universe? God is dead.

Working bottom to top now. "God" was never alive as far as I'm concerned, I'm an agnost. If you can find one person (unless your religious) whose theories are more sensible, or downright intelligent than Mr. Hawking's I will study them intensively and maybe convert into whatever it is they are preaching(including atheism, or if its simply objective then ill stay the same). My point is that even with Einstien's theories there is a point where everything begins and is created. Atheism is a form of creationism that suggests that either it was always here or that it was created by accident, both of which are statiscally impossible, just like a god existing. Holier than though atheists are just as annoying as the worst holier than though Christians. When will people just accept that people have different opinions, sometimes there is no way to prove that any are right.

So any of you athiests, christians, muslims, buhddists, hindus, or anything else Give us proof or just leave people to believe in what they will.

K00l Prog Guruz wrote: I think that if Jesus was alive then that he is probably a nicw guy who helped people dying. So then why arent we all chrstians? As carl marks once said- religion is a mass of opium.

  I am sorry but the quote is "opium of the masses".  Gives it a little different meaning don't you think?    If it was a mass of opium you would spend hours in line to get in the church.  

Given that statement  I find it quite ironic that the fall of the Soviet Empire was hastened along by a labor union aided by the Catholic Church.

Reed Lover wrote: [QUOTE=Hangedman][QUOTE=Reed Lover][ I dont think that the Pope or The Ayotollah would agree that it is a matter of opinion. Mr Hawking is NOT the leader in his field,nor does he claim to be.Theories he has helped to formulate have, by his own admission, been "proven" wrong. It seemed perfectly commonsense to me, for instance, that nothing could escape from a Black Hole. This is now believed to be not the case but as recently as 3 years ago was touted as fact.Mr Hawking has said as much himself. Believing in God is ridiculous. What was once a device to explain the change of the seasons, the falling of rain and even the failure of crops should not now be given any credence.Proving that God doesnt exist is easy. We invented him! I believe you have the right to believe what you believe,but this "let's agree to differ" attitude is a cop out. Only a complete idiot would spend at least 10 years in education and not learn anything.These people teach us to think, then tell us not to.

Reed take it easy chap don't burst a blood vessel over this.  Just think how much fun it would be if the church had a "mass of opium"

If you all really want to get serious...proof of God is impossible, and not even necessarily desirable to the faithful. One might say that faith in God is more powerful than God as an entity. Certainly any great achievement done under the influence of faith proves this...as does any great atrocity.

Ultimately the man of reason has to abandon the search for God through logic and reason, as they are neither needed nor wanted by the religious. One can see the failure of such a melding in the flaccid attempts of the Creationists to wrap their mythology into a seemingly cohesive science. Trying to find God through the means of proof and measurement is like trying to power up a gas stove with electricity; they run on different fuel.

Some, welded to the prevailing attitudes handed down from the Age of Reason, interpret this as either a clear call to atheism or an abandonment of logic. It is neither; religion can enrich (or destroy) a life of science and logical discipline, without being contradictory. Plato didn't neccesarily have to believe in the Gods of Olympus when he used them in his examples...and whatever the case, they are still as useful for the student of philosophy, science, and behavior as ever.

Reed Lover wrote:

Bit of a giveaway really. Too comical to be a mis-quote.
Who are you KPG ?
Garion???

[/QUOTE]

Not me Reed.  I think Eddy might know.   

gdub411 wrote: God spelled backwards is dog and I like doggies so I like God too.

Actually, wouldn't that imply you liked seiggod?

gdub likes Sigod! Oooo, I'm tellin' !

Reed Lover wrote: Hangedman wrote: Reed Lover wrote: Hangedman wrote: Just a comment, being an agnost i find it astounding that someone who is athiest to call someone who is religious an idiot or vice versa. Isnt it just as likely for a god to exist as for the universe to just exist for no reason? Both require something to be created out of nothing, which is scientifically impossible. So both require a measure of faith, which is the defining word of religion. Please when critisizing someone else's beliefs please be tolerant. And remember although i dont believe it, even Steven Hawkings big bang theory requires divine intervention, but then Hawkings doesnt believe in it himself. Who says the Universe is created out of nothing. What is nothing? Does nothing exist? Who made Stephen Hawking the authority on the Universe? God is dead. Working bottom to top now. "God" was never alive as far as I'm concerned, I'm an agnost. If you can find one person (unless your religious) whose theories are more sensible, or downright intelligent than Mr. Hawking's I will study them intensively and maybe convert into whatever it is they are preaching(including atheism, or if its simply objective then ill stay the same). My point is that even with Einstien's theories there is a point where everything begins and is created. Atheism is a form of creationism that suggests that either it was always here or that it was created by accident, both of which are statiscally impossible, just like a god existing. Holier than though atheists are just as annoying as the worst holier than though Christians. When will people just accept that people have different opinions, sometimes there is no way to prove that any are right. So any of you athiests, christians, muslims, buhddists, hindus, or anything else Give us proof or just leave people to believe in what they will. I dont think that the Pope or The Ayotollah would agree that it is a matter of opinion. Mr Hawking is NOT the leader in his field,nor does he claim to be.Theories he has helped to formulate have, by his own admission, been "proven" wrong. It seemed perfectly commonsense to me, for instance, that nothing could escape from a Black Hole. This is now believed to be not the case but as recently as 3 years ago was touted as fact.Mr Hawking has said as much himself. Believing in God is ridiculous. What was once a device to explain the change of the seasons, the falling of rain and even the failure of crops should not now be given any credence.Proving that God doesnt exist is easy. We invented him! I believe you have the right to believe what you believe,but this "let's agree to differ" attitude is a cop out. Only a complete idiot would spend at least 10 years in education and not learn anything.These people teach us to think, then tell us not to.

Reed, what im trying to say is that by saying things like God is dead, is belittling people for thier beliefs. No matter how stupid it seems to people like myself or you to believe in god doesnt make it a universal theme(i also think atheism is idiotic to be fair). The only religious argument i ever try to make is "Let people believe what they want to" because if your an athiest for example what the heck difference does it make in the end?